In School in India+green card(2 1/2 yrs), how to prect green card ?

[skarza]

In School in India+green card(2 1/2 yrs), how to protect green card ?

Hello Members,

Myself,wife and My son, daughter, who are above 19 years, had green card issued in June 2007 and on Aug15 th of 2009.. My son and daughter left usa to india to join school in india. Had doubts and questions....can any one please clarify what should I do ? How to apply for student exemptions if any ?

1. Do they have to come back every 6 months to usa to protect green card ?

or

2. Can they come back / visit once in 11 months for another 2 years before they apply for citizen ship

3. In either above two situations...their stay out of country is counted or not counted for applying citizenship ?

4. As they have already stayed 2 years 2months so far out of 5 years for considering citizen ship...are they eligible to apply for citizen ship ?

5. what should my son and daughter do to protect their green card ?

Your valuable suggestions help us great in this bad economy.

Best Regards,
Skarza.

 

[skarza]

In School in India+green card(2 1/2 yrs), how to protect green card ?

Hello Members and TherealCanadian......

I request the members....Please throw some light....on this.

Best Regards,
Skarza.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

1. Do they have to come back every 6 months to usa to protect green card ?

An absence of over six months would cause issues of abandonment of residency, but going to school might alleviate this. What over six months absence almost certainly will do is reset their clock for citizenship.

2. Can they come back / visit once in 11 months for another 2 years before they apply for citizen ship

Two 11 month absences are pretty much guaranteed to break continuous residency.

3. In either above two situations...their stay out of country is counted or not counted for applying citizenship ?

It's counted towards the five years, but not towards physical presence which is also required for citizenship.

4. As they have already stayed 2 years 2months so far out of 5 years for considering citizen ship...are they eligible to apply for citizen ship ?

Why would they? They have not been permanent residents for 5 years.

5. what should my son and daughter do to protect their green card ?

Stay in the US. It has much better schools.

 

[Jackolantern]

Myself,wife and My son, daughter, who are above 19 years, had green card issued in June 2007 and on Aug15 th of 2009.. My son and daughter left usa to india to join school in india.

Did they apply for a reentry permit before leaving the US? When do you expect they will complete their studies?

If they haven't applied for the reentry permit, they should apply the next time they are in the US. It doesn't have to be approved before they leave the US; they just have to show up for the fingerprinting appointment which occurs a few weeks after applying.

 

[skarza]

Jackolantern and Real Canadian,

Let me, Thank you so much for your replies. Secondly,

1. I have sent my children unexpectedly. Its an unplanned departure on a weekend day. Hence do not have time to apply for rentry permit.
2. Some schools in india work in semisterwise but this school where they are in a medical school does work year wise. And hence they can not come back to USA after six months. But I am sure they have a chance of coming within 11 months of their departure(during summer holidays). They will be done with their college in another 5 years.
3. I was a silent reader of these ....forums and from my observation: what I heard is: We will have to apply for reentry permit if Any one stay outside of USA is more than one year and less than two years.
4. Atleast for one time...will my children are eligible to enter without reentry permit(if they are coming in 11 months of their departure date) ? Do you see any risk ?
5. For applying citizenship....every year they should be in usa for six months ? Over a period of five years, if they stay in usa for 2 and half years is enough ?(because my children are already stayed here in usa more than 2 years).
6. I think we can also apply for advance parole...in their absence as well right? ....by giving the indian address for delivering the advance paroles copies....right ?

Thanks in advance .

skarza

 

[TheRealCanadian]

1. I have sent my children unexpectedly. Its an unplanned departure on a weekend day. Hence do not have time to apply for rentry permit.

How is going to medical school an "unplanned departure"????

I wouldn't hold my breath on keeping eligibility for citizenship, if they are attending school year round in India. Out of curiosity, where do they plan on practicing once they are done?

 

[skarza]

Realcanadian,

A good question.

Here is the short story:

We were planning for my daughter to send to KMC,Manipal....which is a semister system, in which case....she can visit every six months. So did not think of applying.

But Later...when I came to know that the Degree awarded by Antigua-KMC is a foriegn degree....which doesn't make any difference with indian MBBS. I came to know about this on friday evening. Then immediately called parents in india and they spoke to Local medical colleges and were advised to send my both of children as monday is going to be last day to get admitted(this decision has been enforced by my father...he takes the decision in my family not me). So I had to send them saturday everning flight.

I could not beleive myself that things can turn so fast, but in this case...yes it happened. Anyway to cut short my story...this is the fact and realty.

Now I am thinking of what to do and what are my options.

skarza

 

[TheRealCanadian]

But Later...when I came to know that the Degree awarded by Antigua-KMC is a foriegn degree....which doesn't make any difference with indian MBBS.

I mention where she plans on practicing because an Indian degree won't be much good compared to a US medical degree.

(this decision has been enforced by my father...he takes the decision in my family not me). So I had to send them saturday everning flight.

I feel sorry for your children and you. It will certainly be difficult for them in their careers - as a doctor you need to make difficult independent decisions and take responsibility for them, and it's very difficult to do so when neither you nor your parents have been able to do this in your lives thus far.

Bottom line, they can probably preserve the Green Card, but are unlikely to preserve continuous residency for citizenship. It'll also be interesting trying to practice in the US, but there are plenty of rural backwaters crying out for foreign doctors.

Can't they attend a US medical school?

 

[Triple Citizen]

Then he should also do the worrying, not you!!!

this decision has been enforced by my father...he takes the decision in my family not me

 

[skarza]

Real Canadian,

FYI. I did some research before sending them to india about the academic standards and the foriegn degree validity:

here in USA, about Indian degrees.... We do not have to worry and about practicing here in USA as well. I know so many indian doctors having practice here in USA...who completed their medicine in india.
Even if you go to medical school here, you will have to write Step1,Step2,Step3 tests here, which an Indian Medico has to take as well. Anyway, we are deviating from the point.

Since you & senior members know better than me about the immigration logistics, I sought senior members help. I know in the past: we can apply for advance parole...evenif the applicant is out of USA and on behalf of the applicant...I can apply unless this rule changed now.

I know...If you stay at least six months in usa your continued residency will not get effected.

Secondly, I have read in USCIS website: that you need reentry permit/advance parole if the intended stay is more than 1 year and less than two years.

I am trying to know the re-entry known issues/risks...if they do not apply for re-entry permit and if they can not come back with in six months(assuming they are returning to usa in 11 months...at least first time).

Ofcourse, I will produce the documentation at the time of re-entry time about their admission documents...circumstances leading to join in india etc. Also, I know you are all not attorneys but I believe an experienced patient is better than a new doctor....and hence I am requesting you all to throw some light on this.

Best Regards,
skarza.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

here in USA, about Indian degrees.... We do not have to worry and about practicing here in USA as well. I know so many indian doctors having practice here in USA...who completed their medicine in india.

I'm sure there are. It's worth noting, however, what the formal requirements are, versus the informal requirements. Unless your daughter is not competing against anyone, a foreign degree is automatically secondary to a US degree. There are plenty of bright Indians (and Americans) who have US degrees. An Indian (or any foreign degree) is second-class by comparison.

I know in the past: we can apply for advance parole...evenif the applicant is out of USA and on behalf of the applicant...I can apply unless this rule changed now.

No, you can't apply on their behalf.

You need to stop thinking of what you will do for them (although I understand why you are conditioned to do this). They are adults - they need to start thinking and doing for themselves.

 

[Jackolantern]

here in USA, about Indian degrees.... We do not have to worry and about practicing here in USA as well. I know so many indian doctors having practice here in USA...who completed their medicine in india.

For every Indian doctor with an Indian medical degree who is now practicing in the US, there are many more Indian doctors with Indian medical degrees who wanted to practice in the US but couldn't because those opportunities went to graduates of US medical schools.

2. Some schools in india work in semisterwise but this school where they are in a medical school does work year wise. And hence they can not come back to USA after six months. But I am sure they have a chance of coming within 11 months of their departure(during summer holidays). They will be done with their college in another 5 years.

FIVE YEARS? I seriously doubt they'll be able to preserve their green card for that long while spending 11 months per year outside the US.

 

[König]

They may encounter difficulties as soon as they arrive back to the US because after 11 months of absence, a CBP agent may get suspicious. Contrary to the popular opinion, studying abroad may actually be an aggravating reason for CBP officer, not an excuse. Visiting the USA for one month out of 11 months may be OK once or twice, but your kids are studying in the medical school. The CBP agent may ask them how long they are planning to study in India and how often they will be visiting the USA. Five times for just one month out of a year? I-407 in their passports will be guaranteed even at the first arrival.

 

[sanjoseaug20]

It is a difficult situation. Even if they manage to save the green card, after five years they would have spent only 5 months in US (@ 1 month per year) and they will need to get the clock ticking again. And you do not know what the situation will be in 5 years. If you are talking about living on an edge, this is it.

Re-entry permits are possible, they could do it on their next trip I am sure. However, CIS is getting tough on these nowadays. They used to issue them in abandon, now they are limiting the number of times you can take it and their duration.

I laughed out loud seeing TripleCitizen's response to the RealCanadian as I can relate to both the perspectives. To each his own. I have gotten in trouble on this board for going off topic, but I will dare it again ... if your younger kid is 19+ years, it is time to take over family decision making ... or it will directly pass to the next generation.

 

[Jackolantern]

Indeed it is odd that their grandfather is allowed to impose these decisions on them, overriding even the parents of these young medical students.

Chances are one or both of them will be stuck in India, either as a result of losing their green cards, or being unable to obtain medical residency or employment in the US with their non-US medical degree, due to the stiff competition for those opportunities in the US.

 

[skarza]

Hello All,

Let me thank you all: RealCandadian,Jackolantern,sanjoseaug20,koing,Tripple Citizen, who is sharing their info in this discussion.

My Request to you all:

Please do not discuss about who took the decision about their admission, are they eligible to practice in usa or not. I have done enough research on this areas. Lets refrain from this angel of discussion.

1)I am worried about whether they can safeguard their green card or not and
2)whether 11 months stay outside....can be a repeated practice or not.
3)can we apply citizenship form after two years or not ? These are my concerned questions.

I am prepared for the worst case(they will become doctors in india ). The only reason ...I am checking with you on immigration issues is....I would like to keep the options open to my children to enter into usa(as a citizen or greencard holder)...if possible so that they can take a decision as per their choice at that time.

I have checked with a parent(venugopal) through my friend(Mastan), whose son is studying medicine in india(US green card holder) and I have attached his response....FYI.

I know things can change down the line in another 4 to 5 years. But as of now, we should come with good points about immigration issues so that it will be useful for others who are in the same situation.

Thanks for understanding.

Thanks,
skarza

"""""""""""""""""
From: Venugopal Vakati <xxxxx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: From Mastan (26-Sept-2009)..
To: "Mastan Shaik" <yyyyyyyy@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 9:03 PM


Hi Mastan,

If he is holding green card, their children should visit USA once in every 11 months with a bonafide certificate of the college in support that they are just for the study in india. If he is planning not bring them every year, he has to apply for reentry permit by telling that they are studying in INDIA and in support of it college bonafide certificate should be enclosed. But this application should be submitted when they are in USA and it is a must. The application will be processed and reentry permit will be issued with a date and he should visit before that date to USA. Again with in a week he can apply second time for the same.

My best option would be if he is staying with family in USA he need not apply for the GC. They will have holidays from 1st May to 30 th May every year. During that time they should visit USA. If he is alone there, then they can call them in May if they are already in india and apply for the reentry permit. Atleast 2 years no need to worry.



As I was telling you some time back, My son should have atleast 2 letters of recommendation from any doctor in USA to select for RESIDENCY PROGRAM. If you have any personal contact with any doctors there, please try to explore the possibility of getting any guidance and letter.

You should ask that " My friend's son is a permanenet resident of USA (Green Card Holder) but he is an IMG(Internationa Medical Graduate) and he is pursuing for RESIDENCY PROGRAM. He is appearing for USMLE exams and is expected to come to USA by May 2010. We need your letter of recommendation which will surely help in the process of selection."

That is all for now.

Thanks

Venugopal
""""""""""""""""""

 

[sanjoseaug20]

1)I am worried about whether they can safeguard their green card or not and
2)whether 11 months stay outside....can be a repeated practice or not.
3)can we apply citizenship form after two years or not ?

You need to clarify the dates first. Your first sentence in the original post had mentioned 4 people with GC and only 2 dates. It appeared that your kids only got the GC just now (Aug 15, 2009). Your statements subsequent to this indicate that they already have the GC for some time. Please do clarify.

Safeguarding GC - it is a definite possibility, but carries risk. Assuming they already spent 2.5 years in US on a GC, that's a lot of ground covered ... if they can do some more in the next 2.5 years. However, I fear they may not have time.

The best option seems to be the re-entry permit ... not sure what is the form name. This will give you time and put off the problem for 2 years. However, USCIS is becoming more and more strict on this. Earlier they would issue back to back 2 year re-entry permits thus giving you 4 years permission. However, now they are giving hard time on this ... check other threads on this issue. I would guess you will definitely be able to put 2 years on the reentry permit, but 4 ... very doubtful.

If you get a 2 year re-entry permit, you do not need to worry about 11 months, just let them be in India and return at completion of this.

Citizenship - IF they have GC since June 2007, they have captured a number of days towards permanent residency, but they will lose the continuous resident status ... check threads related to continuous residency ... yes coming back every 11 months will help you justify these breaks, but doing that 3 times ... not sure the IO will buy it easily.

My feeling is that retaining GC is possible for a 2-3 years period, but citizenship is another matter. Better take one step at a time. Unfortunately, good colleges in India will not allow them to take a 1 year break and finish some residency work if that's what was needed.

 

[skarza]

sanjoseaug20,

Thanks for your reply.

I have applied for GC for the whole family in May 2002 when My daughter and son are minors/dependents .

Green card for me + spouse + Son + Daughter, was approved on: June 2007.

Son + Daughter, both are now majors. They are not dependents any more. They stayed in usa almost 2 years 2 months after they approved their GC.

On Aug 15th 2009, my Son + Daughter left to india to join Medical School...without applying for re-entry permit.

Myself and my spouse both are in USA and we own a home here and we intend to stay in USA.

what I am thinking is: In another 8 months...my son+daughter will have summer holidays. They can come back(11months stay in india) for the first time and then apply for re-entry permit for 2 years. After 45 days of stay....they can go back to india. By that time they will complete 3 years. From then onwards....options I have:

(i) if they can come once in 6 months...they can retain green card or apply for citizenship.
or
(ii) if then can come once in 11 months(two times)....they can retain green card. By this time they will complete 4 years of stay. Next time they will come after 6 months(by this time...4 and 1/2 years) will be completed. They are eligible apply for citizenship.

(iii) If they are not eligilble to apply for citizenship, worst case....they should be eligible to retain GC.

I am assuming as they have already stayed in usa for 2 years 2 months After their GC approved and if they can stay for another 4 months in the remaining 3 years.....so that 2 1/2 years of stay of total 5 years after GC approved, will this be a legitimate crieteria or not. I am thinking: 2 1/2 years stay of 5 years entitiles you to apply for citizenship or is it six months of stay of every year entitiles for citizenship ?

I am not trying to convert according to my situation. I want to know facts or reality or -ve aspects of my situation w.r.t safeguarding GC of my children or w.r.t. applying for their citizenship after they come back.

Best Regards,
skarza.

 

[König]

....options I have:

(i) if they can come once in 6 months...they can retain green card or apply for citizenship.

Sounds OK. However, you should remember that in order to preserve the GC, a person should reside in the USA. Coming every 6 months for a short time is not residing. The CBP may start asking questions when he/she sees that your kids spend most of the year in India, even if they come every 6 months.

(ii) if then can come once in 11 months(two times)....they can retain green card. By this time they will complete 4 years of stay. Next time they will come after 6 months(by this time...4 and 1/2 years) will be completed. They are eligible apply for citizenship.

Retaining the GC can be tricky. Once they get I-407 in their passports, they can't do it anymore. After one 11-month absence, they will break continuous residency and should start counting 5 years again. Anytime (with some exception) they leave the USA for more than 6 months, they need to add 5 years to that. So, in this case they are absolutely ineligible for citizenship if you count from 2007.

(iii) If they are not eligilble to apply for citizenship, worst case....they should be eligible to retain GC.

If your kids come in 8 months, this is the only option you have. There will be a risk even after first 11-month absence, if the CBP officer is not in the good mood.

I am assuming as they have already stayed in usa for 2 years 2 months After their GC approved and if they can stay for another 4 months in the remaining 3 years.....so that 2 1/2 years of stay of total 5 years after GC approved, will this be a legitimate crieteria or not.

No. Once again, they break continuous residency after they stay out of the USA for more than 6 months. In order to preserve 2 years 2 months that they already have, they must return before 15 February 2010. Otherwise, their counter will start from 0.

I am thinking: 2 1/2 years stay of 5 years entitiles you to apply for citizenship or is it six months of stay of every year entitiles for citizenship ?

It is not OR, it is AND.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

Agreed. As I said earlier, they should focus on preserving the Green Card, not trying to maintain continuous residency for naturalization. They cannot if they spend the better part of 3 years abroad studying.