If reform for illegals included, Let us say NO to reform

[obelisk]

Illegals are Enemies to Legal Immigrants

Illegal immigrants are the product of TRUE labor supply and demand. They are here becasue WE NEED them here, if you see 12 million illegals, it's because 12 million vacant, unwanted jobs don't have good-ole cowboys applying for them. If you or your friends want to apply for a job to pick up strawberries in the fileds of California, or for dishwashing job in NYC, go ahead DO IT. You'll solve the immigration problem right away. Otherwise, simply shut your mouth and be glad Illegals are here to help us. Immigration reform MUST include those who work hard each day and clean up our cities.

Again, Machelon, it costs $12 Billion per year (NET) to California taxpayers to have them pick those strawberries. So, Machelon, what if I don't want to shut my mouth? What if I want to keep on bring up the harms and damages the illegals are causing this country and rest of the LEGAL immigrant community? What then? If one pays me $10 a month to stay with me but costs me $100 to house him, I guess according to your definition, he would be a "contributor" to my household, eh?

Illegals ARE the reason why there are so much anti-immigrant sentiment out there. For an American who never had to deal with immigration issues, who has lost his job in this bad economy, I can't fault him for holding anti-immigrant sentiment. Illegals should be the enemies of ALL immigrants who are waiting in-line and doing things the right, long and the "stupid" way! They have bastardized the term "IMMIGRANT". There should be more outcries from the legal immigrant communities condemning their behaviors, but instead, we get rotten apples like Machelon supporting this law-breaking behavior, twisting a legal issue into a moral issue.

In this economy, when Americans and LEGAL immigrants are losing their jobs left and right and are willing to work jobs at half of their previous pays, there are no more excuses from criminal-lovers like Machelon to say illegals are doing jobs "good ole cowboys" won't do. What if I were to tell you that I know such a cowboy who is waiting tables to feed his family? And what if I were to tell you that cowboy is my brother-in-law? Will you shut YOUR trap then, Machelon?

 

[Statin_doc]

No Amnesty by Law!

Again, Machelon, it costs $12 Billion per year (NET) to California taxpayers to have them pick those strawberries. So, Machelon, what if I don't want to shut my mouth? What if I want to keep on bring up the harms and damages the illegals are causing this country and rest of the LEGAL immigrant community? What then? If one pays me $10 a month to stay with me but costs me $100 to house him, I guess according to your definition, he would be a "contributor" to my household, eh?

Illegals ARE the reason why there are so much anti-immigrant sentiment out there. For an American who never had to deal with immigration issues, who has lost his job in this bad economy, I can't fault him for holding anti-immigrant sentiment. Illegals should be the enemies of ALL immigrants who are waiting in-line and doing things the right, long and the "stupid" way! They have bastardized the term "IMMIGRANT". There should be more outcries from the legal immigrant communities condemning their behaviors, but instead, we get rotten apples like Machelon supporting this law-breaking behavior, twisting a legal issue into a moral issue.

In this economy, when Americans and LEGAL immigrants are losing their jobs left and right and are willing to work jobs at half of their previous pays, there are no more excuses from criminal-lovers like Machelon to say illegals are doing jobs "good ole cowboys" won't do. What if I were to tell you that I know such a cowboy who is waiting tables to feed his family? And what if I were to tell you that cowboy is my brother-in-law? Will you shut YOUR trap then, Machelon?

Obelisk, thoroughly empathize with your BIL!

This country is a country of Laws - like no other example in the world! The President of the USA was so publicly humiliated not so long ago!

I have seen, experienced and felt the personal warmth & magnanimity of Americans - do not underestimate their belief in their laws! Breaking the laws for whatever reason is not acceptable behavior - most Americans will not & should not accept it! It should not be condoned, there should be no Amnesty!

Otherwise, why should so many other Americans be in jail - set them all free and see the chaos in the society! Plaxico Burress, the hero of a Super Bowl, shot himself - see how he is being made an example of! Why should anybody else get scotfree for breaking the Law? These other law-breakers have harmed other law-abiding citizens indirectly by vitiating the labor market - no mercy for any law-breakers, whether they are Mexican, Chinese, Irish, Korean or Indian!

No Amnesty for breaking the Laws - Period.

 

[obelisk]

A half truth is a whole lie, Machelon!

Statin doc
The pro-illegal crowd really have no viable legal argument, other than through blatant lies and calling you names like "racist" or "un-compassionate" and purposely turning a legal issue into either a race issue or a moral issue. I have heard it all.

A typical myth, such as the one Machelon had just told, is that illegals do jobs no Americans want to do....well, that's a half-truth, the other half of the statement really should be: Illegals do jobs no Americans want to do AT A GIVEN WAGE, in other words, if one pays the fair market wage for these jobs illegals are doing, there will be American workers who is willing to do the job. So the half truth Mechelon had just told, is actually a whole LIE.

If a farmer charges $10 per pound of strawberries when he hires US workers at the prevailing wage of say...$9/hr, does one really think the price the consumers pay will decrease if the same farmer hires illegals at $5/hr? No, he will still charge you $10 per pound. But his profit margin will increase.

So it's all about the farmers' profit margins, it has nothing to do with keeping the price of strawberries affordable for the consumers. And EVEN IF a pound of strawberries does go up to $15 per pound as the result of farmers hiring US workers, so what? I don't need strawberries to live, not at $15/lb. Likewise, none of the products the illegals are involved in really are essential to my survival, worse comes worse, I just don't buy them, at which point the price will be forced to re-adjust itself.

All of us immigrants should distant ourselves from the illegals, they should NEVER be considered as immigrants, because that's what we are. They are simply criminals. But unfortunately, thanks in no small part to people like Machelon, who want to show "solidarity" with these criminals, as the result, to some Americans we are one and the same. The word "immigrant" is actually now more closely associated with these criminals than it is to us true immigrants. SHAME.

 

[pruroad]

Statue of Liberty

Statin doc
All of us immigrants should distant ourselves from the illegals, they should NEVER be considered as immigrants, because that's what we are. They are simply criminals.

Do not be so proud of Urself for having a pieace of document in hand or having lots of money to be an investor in this country.
With all the you do get prefrential treatment.... well enjoy it but do not call the less fortunate ones BAD.

This country is for everyone..... and more for the poor who want to make a living out here. If you still do not understand the great melting pot .. go to New York ... Statue of Liberty and read what is engraved in the pedestal.

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[obelisk]

re: Statue of Liberty

Wow, what you said made me cry. I specially love the poem. Yes, the Statue of Liberty is very inspiring to me as an immigrant, as well. It says to me: as long as you are willing to work hard, ABIDE BY THE LAW, this land is for you. The Statue of Liberty also tells me this country is about FAIRNESS. While hundreds of thousands of people try to do things the right/legal way, illegals aliens want to take short cuts, and act all indignant and hurt when they are called out on their illegal acts. Open your eyes, Pruroad and read some of the true immigrant stories members of this forum have posted, people have waited 10+++ years to get their GCs.

I don't think Uncle Sam will agree with your understanding that this country is for everyone. This country is only for people who came here by following the United States immigration law, and this is self-evident by the fact that those who don't follow the immigration law are referred to by 99% of the population as - ILLEGAL ALIENS, and they are deportable if caught by Uncle Sam, and they are prohibited from applying for ANY kind of visas for 10 years. So...you are dead wrong.

You are right about the preferential treatment I have been getting though. However, you got one thing...not so correct...The reason why I get preferential treatment is not because I have money or am an investor. The ONLY reason why I get preferential treatment is because I CAME HERE LEGALLY, and Uncle Sam does have the tendency of giving law abiding foreigners "preferential treatments", whatever it is. And does it blow you mind at the fact that you don't even have to be rich to receive this "preferential treatment"? Majority of the members of this forum, whether they are on H-1B, H-4, B-1, V-1 or E-1 all qualify for this mysterious "preferential treatment" you referred to.

Pruroad, I take it that the concept of LAW isn't part of the culture where you came from, eh? So other than the good ole' sob story and a very lovely poem, can you offer a better reason as to why these law breakers should receive the same treatment as legal immigrants? Not having compassion is not a crime, sneak into this country illegally IS A CRIME.

Once again, mixing a legal issue with sob stories, purposely trying to blur the line between legality and illegality. Try again Pruroad, incorrect response! Unacceptable! OTRA VEZ, POR FAVOR!!!

 

[pruroad]

I don't think Uncle Sam will agree with your understanding that this country is for everyone.
The reason why I get preferential treatment is not because I have money or am an investor. !!!

U must read American histroy man... you look all confused. At one point you told that U were from Japan and rich guy .. and u came here not to escape poverty... Is that still true or u agree that u were lying big time.

 

[obelisk]

No Inglés, Pruroad?

You got me good this time, Pruraod! You got me real good I LOOK all confused? You write mucho goodly Pruroad I guess you know what I look like, too, huh? Do you mean I "sound" all confused? Being an illegal yourself, obviously you don't have the command of the proper English language...big time

Okay, check this out, cabrón, hommie. Yo se Inglés es una lengua más dificil para ud, but let me use the following "street example" maybe you can understand better based on your experience: "The reason why illegal alien men rape American women is not because they are men, it's because they are wild animals and don't have any self control". So, Pruroad, in this good example...did I say illegal alien rapists aren't men, or did I simply say they are wild animals and don't have self-control? Comprendes, cabrón?

También, at what point have I either confirmed or denied that I am a rich investor? Please refresh my memory. I only confirmed that I was from Nagoya, Japan. This is what I wrote: "People immigrate to America for various reasons. Not all come here just to escape poverty. Many people from Asia such as Japan, Taiwan or Korea come here for businesses and investments." When did I say I myself am a "wealthy investor", Pruraod?? Maybe I am, maybe I am not. I was not aware that I have ever disclosed my personal finance to the people in this forum.

Although I probably do have more money than you'll ever have. Then again, anybody who has over $100 in the bank account, eats 3 meals a day and drives a lowered 1990 Honda Civic with 17-inch chromed rims is probably wealthy based on your standard. You are way too fun, Pruraod. Being able to verbally bash you gives me a good practice of my rusty English. I love this daily entertainment. Write more, pleeeease But if you want to quote me, please use the ENTIRE quote in the proper context next time.

 

[nTan]

Look into U first.

obelisk : When you cannot make an argument, do not make up a story. You seem to be a congenital liar.

 

[obelisk]

This is GREAT!

obelisk : When you cannot make an argument, do not make up a story. You seem to be a congenital liar.

nTan,
You're right, I have no argument other than reiterating the fact that The U.S. Federal Government, as its official policy, says: it is wrong and illegal to enter this country without a visa. Pretty powerful argument eh? What is your argument in justifying why should taxpayers let parasites like yourself suck out $12B out of CA economy a year just for picking strawberries and cleaning toilets? Who makes your argument? The other illegal clown Pruroad who can neither read nor write "goodly Ingles"? Oh oh oh...before I forget, did you hear that in Richmond, CA, six illegal wild beasts like yourself GANG RAPED a girl for an hour after a school dance and left her to die? I am not making this up!!

Name calling is great, I guess you and I both share the same passion. In my case, I love to use it to make you illegal aliens realize that as illegals, you are "congenitally" inferior and will always be stomped on and abused by people like me, and that's your destiny in this life. See...the thing is, the real liar isn't me, the real liars are the people (specially people in your family) who tell you that you are equal to others and you'll be somebody someday...once you sneaked into America. Don't let these liars fool you. The fact is, you will always be no bodies or at best, street debris. You may look like a IT specialist or a programmer or a strawberry picker, but dirty blood will always flow in your vanes, and that nasty blood is what makes you wild beasts. Hey, what can I say, call me a racist, my stupid country might have lost WWII, but my opinion of your kind will never change

BTW, nTan, do you really have a dirty tan that you cannot wash off your skin since birth? No offense, just out of curiosity, what does nTan mean anyway?

 

[Texas Resident]

Way to go OBELISK!

nTan and the others:
Sorry to disappoint you but obelisk represents the majority of legal immigrants' opinion. All illegals should be deported just like most other countries do (if they are lucky enough to make it through the border without geting shot). If you are illegal here you should pack up and leave.

BTW: You are aware of how Mexico treats illegal border crossers coming throught its southern border don't you?

 

[nTan]

nTan,
in Richmond, CA, six illegal wild beasts like yourself GANG RAPED a girl for an hour after a school dance and left her to die? I am not making this up!!

Show the proof that they were illegal. You are not a citizen of this country.. You are not allowed to vote. So you have no rights to say how this country should frame it laws and regulations.

If you do like things here .. go back from where you were booted out.

 

[obelisk]

HAHA, I love it! You're like a dirty whore: TOO EASY. Go read the newspaper. Just because I find a cockroach or two in my house, does not mean I don't love my house. You know how I deal with cockroaches when I find them in my house? Believe me, nTan, you DO NOT want me to "frame" this country's immigration laws But if there is one day when animals like you out-breed rest of America and infest this country, then I will pack up and jet. By the way, thank you so much for correcting me, I always thought what I say does becomes the US law.

nTan, just try to exist US, and try to walk through the San Diego Border check point and see what will happen to you Or...just try to sneak through the Arizona desert and see the warm and welcoming treatment you'll receive from the US border patrol. See, nTan, this is a country of immigrants, but it does have a few blemishes that need to be removed...and you, nTan, are a blemish that must be wiped clean. Without pests like you, America will be a more...comfortable...place to live.

I noticed there is only one language sub-human animals like you will understand: verbal (maybe physical) abuse, non-stop intimidation and oppression. Because that's what you are used to in the old-country, am I wrong?

 

[TheRealCanadian]

This thread is about to get locked.

 

[thatsonlyme]

HAHA, I love it! You're like a dirty whore: TOO EASY. Go read the newspaper. Just because I find a cockroach or two in my house, does not mean I don't love my house. You know how I deal with cockroaches when I find them in my house? Believe me, nTan, you DO NOT want me to "frame" this country's immigration laws But if there is one day when animals like you out-breed rest of America and infest this country, then I will pack up and jet. By the way, thank you so much for correcting me, I always thought what I say does becomes the US law.

nTan, just try to exist US, and try to walk through the San Diego Border check point and see what will happen to you Or...just try to sneak through the Arizona desert and see the warm and welcoming treatment you'll receive from the US border patrol. See, nTan, this is a country of immigrants, but it does have a few blemishes that need to be removed...and you, nTan, are a blemish that must be wiped clean. Without pests like you, America will be a more...comfortable...place to live.

I noticed there is only one language sub-human animals like you will understand: verbal (maybe physical) abuse, non-stop intimidation and oppression. Because that's what you are used to in the old-country, am I wrong?

Wow, haters are firing up, fortunately, power is not in their hands.
If you want to see an animal sir, why don't you look up in the mirror?
or you truly believe in your supremacy just because you were lucky (or slick) enough to get a permission to live and work in this country?
who do you think you are to judge who should stay and who should be kicked out? are you a lawyer? immigration judge?
you said you've never broken a law. I bet you're the only person in the whole world who claimed all his extra income on his tax return, who'd never taken a blank receipt for a cab ride or jaywalked?
as you've already mentioned, there is no illegal immigration in norway, europe or even mexico. now ask yourself why?
because laws are balanced with demand! people don't immigrate illegally if there is a legal way. in us, legal immigration is limited to skilled workers who are also lucky enough to have a sponsor and fit all other criteria. us obviously has a demand for low skilled labor, but there is no way for them to legally enter!
now for all of you proposing a seasonal worker program, why do you think YOU deserve to get a green card while seasonal worker doesn't?
and why those people who were never given a chance to do it right way shouldn't benefit from legislation changes?
legal immigrants should benefit from bureaucratic backlogs, so why illegal immigrants can't benefit as well? at least remove bars they are facing and give them a fresh start.
and what about DREAM-ers? blanket deportation for all of them as well?

by who am I talking to anyway? I should have learned by now, you can't argue with ignorant people.

 

[obelisk]

legal immigrants should benefit from bureaucratic backlogs, so why illegal immigrants can't benefit as well?

I took you advice and looked into the mirror, I must say I love what I saw, a finer human being has yet to exist. And yes, I am a hater of illegals and criminals. By the way, you forgot to call me a racist, too, I really "hate" to have to constantly remind my readers of that! To answer your question...illegals can't benefit from what the legals are benefiting because they are ILLEGALS, you said it yourself! What part of the term ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT isn't self-explanatory? If an illegal enjoys all the benefits legals immigrants do, then what differentiates the two? What's the incentive to abide by the law? Does US not have the right to a BORDER and right to enforce its immigration laws like other countries do, including Mexico?

Once again, blurring a legal issue with an emotional issue, something criminal lovers like you (maybe an illegal yourself) often do. But, to quote you "who am I talking to anyway? I should have learned by now, you can't argue with ignorant people."

 

[machelon]

Again, Machelon, it costs $12 Billion per year (NET) to California taxpayers to have them pick those strawberries. So, Machelon, what if I don't want to shut my mouth? What if I want to keep on bring up the harms and damages the illegals are causing this country and rest of the LEGAL immigrant community? What then? If one pays me $10 a month to stay with me but costs me $100 to house him, I guess according to your definition, he would be a "contributor" to my household, eh?

Illegals ARE the reason why there are so much anti-immigrant sentiment out there. For an American who never had to deal with immigration issues, who has lost his job in this bad economy, I can't fault him for holding anti-immigrant sentiment. Illegals should be the enemies of ALL immigrants who are waiting in-line and doing things the right, long and the "stupid" way! They have bastardized the term "IMMIGRANT". There should be more outcries from the legal immigrant communities condemning their behaviors, but instead, we get rotten apples like Machelon supporting this law-breaking behavior, twisting a legal issue into a moral issue.


In this economy, when Americans and LEGAL immigrants are losing their jobs left and right and are willing to work jobs at half of their previous pays, there are no more excuses from criminal-lovers like Machelon to say illegals are doing jobs "good ole cowboys" won't do. What if I were to tell you that I know such a cowboy who is waiting tables to feed his family? And what if I were to tell you that cowboy is my brother-in-law? Will you shut YOUR trap then, Machelon?

Tell your cowboy relative to come to CA and work harder to feed the family, just like his Mexican co workers who do that everyday. All illegal immigrants want is the same as your relative wants, a family with a full tummy.

And about legal immigrants, those who gloriously "wait in line", to me it is simply a privileged group of people compared to illegal immigrants. Let's not compare the efforts of those who are ABLE to get legal immigrant visas those of the guy who had to jump the border and wash your dishes or mown your lawn each day...to feed his family.

Don't get me wrong, I am a legal immigrant who started as a F1 student and is now a proud citizen. I have always followed every single minute requirement of the law, But I feel more privileged than the guy who buses my tables at my Favorite restaurant each day, I feel my journey was easier than his was and my life is with many more choices than his.

Either due to higher education, or a job, or money or even the lottery visa, those coming here legally have it way easier than those here illegally. So I am sick of these "I wait in line" argument because there is no comparison.

Legal immigration is not the "stupid" way to immigrate, like you said, it is the privileged way to immigrate and you should be thankful you don't have to dirty your clothes each day to get $7/hr.