Got the ticket recently after the paperwork went in but just before the interview. I just read the N-400 instruction again and it states "Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentations for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500.00 or points on your drivers license". Looking at this, even if I had got the ticket before filing my naturalization papers, I would have not disclosed it. What do you think ?
I got a traffic ticket before my oath ceremony...please help!!
- Thread starter fezpamir
- Start date
Got the ticket recently after the paperwork went in but just before the interview. I just read the N-400 instruction again and it states "Note that unless a traffic incident was alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit documentations for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500.00 or points on your drivers license". Looking at this, even if I had got the ticket before filing my naturalization papers, I would have not disclosed it. What do you think ?
You are correct. I thought since it was less than 500.00 but have not got any ticket since the interview and hopefully before the oath. Do I need to contact them and have this corrected ?
Trust me. I am not trying to be clever. I was under the impression that anything under 500.00 should not be disclosed afterall in that section of the arrest and citation of the N-400, I checked several Yes that I had to explain on the form including arrest/citations. Do you think I should go with a lawyer to get this straight before the oath ?
Did the traffic ticket involve an arrest? Did the IO at interview specifically ask about traffic citations?
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You would have been alright if you would have disclosed the ticket info at the time of your interview.. but since it seems like you did not discussed your ticket at time of interview you have put your case at risk... for no apparent reason. I did not disclosed my traffic tickets on the N-400 form but I did discussed those over with my IO at the time of interview... and they do make a note of it sometimes on your form.
I would suggest follow the advise from the experts.. otherwise you might end up putting your case into deeper trouble later on then you already have.
That's assuming that USCIS would pursue someone for not disclosing a minor traffic on their application (as many people do), unless specifically asked at interview about traffic tickets. If the IO specifically asks about traffic tickets at interview, and the applicant willfully withholds such information, then it strengthens the "lie to obtain immigration benefit" argument.
There is no significance in the degree of the LIE told at the N-400 interview. Also, an "attempt to obtain a benefit" is included in the statue as a preclusion to establishing good moral character. One does not have to succeed in their falsehood to be held accountable for it, especially when seeking the highest benefit in the Immigration and Nationality Act.
That whole "specific question" routine has been addressed by USCIS. Broad, general, and all-inclusive questions are asked for certain aspects of the interview.
Have you ever had any contact/problem/interaction with the authorities (Police, INS, ICE, CBP, etc...) ever in your life in the U.S. or anywhere in the world?
There a numerous variations geared to the individual based on language ability and educational level.
I have even mimed in order to indicate being hand-cuffed! Naturalization examiners are taught these techniques and the vast majority use them as instructed.
No Bobsmyth.
I did not even keep this from the IO. He did not ask me specifically about a traffic ticket at all. What do you think is my next step of action. My attorney has moved the court date to sometime in August so as to assist with the points. The traffic ticket does not involve an arrest.
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Yes, you did conceal this fact from the IO at the interview. He did not have to ask you specifically about the traffic tickets. When the IO was going with you line-by-line over N-400 during the interview to see if there were any updates, when it came to question 16 in part 10D of N-400, you should have disclosed the information about the ticket then. By itself the ticket would not mean much, but if you have other things in your record (e.g. arrests, convictions etc), the ticket could be viewed as a material fact for making determination about your good moral character. You had an obligation to disclose it at the interview, regardless of whether the IO asked specifically about traffic tickets.
Your traffic court attorney is absolutely useless for immigration matters, and bringing him/her to the oath will not help you in any way. If you bring an immigration attorney, that may help a little but probably with negligible effect too.
The point is, you do have an obligation to disclose this ticket to USCIS and the only way/place where you can do it is at the oath.
If you go to your oath as scheduled on Wednesday, IMO you should pay your ticket in full beforehand and bring a copy of the ticket and proof with you to the oath. Then tell the whole story to the IO there and hope that the IO is in a forgiving mood and will let you take the oath as scheduled. If you come to the oath on Wednesday with the ticket still unpaid, you considerably increase the risk that the IO there will not allow you to take the oath and will send your case back to USCIS for additional review.
The alternative is to ask USCIS to postpone your oath, then try to deal with the traffic ticket in court first and after it is somehow resolved, bring proof of court disposition with you to the new oath date.
Trust me. I declared a lot on my application and I just happened to read that 500.00 requirement wrong. I dont have to lie about my mistake and that is why I am needing some help with the whole issue. I have to tell the truth about what happened to get the good advise. I can always go there and fill the N-445 as NO since I am praying not getting any ticket by the oath ceremony day but I want to do it right the first time and be able to sleep well and safe. I am trying not to postpone the oath ceremony and just try to pay the ticket.
Just go and get your oath done. no need to declare anything. chances are no will know. i mean you will need to be a terrorist or someone endangering national security for them to dig up your files years down the road, find out that you did not disclose a speeding ticket and then denaturalize you. think about it. there are tons of people who did not even declare moving violations (that are not drug or alcohol related), and still get their citizenship. Will they get denaturalize if USCIS finds out later? Maybe but chances are that its very very slim. There are even attorneys who recommend not disclosing traffic tickets that you get before your oath.
Or if you are worried, just declare it. the IO will check your ticket and will sign off the back of your form and you will be good to go as well.
People here on this forum are not attorneys. If you really concerned talk an attorney, but don't loose sleep over a speeding ticket.
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saladin, nessre
P.S. Personally expedited a payment of $300+ ticket for "following to close" in order not to have any delays with N-400 process.
Just a side note, irrelevant to the situation. You can easily get ~$350 ticket in CA for simply doing 82 in 65 (which is very common here on freeways). The actual fine for the infraction is much less, but they add up all the county/state/court fees on the top. Also, there is $50 court fee for letting you take the traffic school. So, it absolutely easy to jump over $500/ticket limit in CA.
P.S. Personally expedited a payment of $300+ ticket for "following to close" in order not to have any delays with N-400 process.
daniyatom,
Well, even though I somewhat agree with you, I have also to say that lying to USCIS (make no mistake, it's a lie) on such a petty matter is not worth it. It is exactly the situation, when you create a potential problem for yourself out of literally nothing. So, why would you want to do it? Even though the risk is super slim...
My advice here is "pay and disclose'.
Well, even though I somewhat agree with you, I have also to say that lying to USCIS (make no mistake, it's a lie) on such a petty matter is not worth it. It is exactly the situation, when you create a potential problem for yourself out of literally nothing. So, why would you want to do it? Even though the risk is super slim...
My advice here is "pay and disclose'.
Scenario 1.
Plead guilty, pay the fine, get a hit on your insurance record (any risk to the DL suspension, btw?), go to the oath ceremony, disclose the ticket. There is a chance they will put your case on hold for extended review, otherwise get your citizenship
Scenario 2. Go to the oath ceremony, disclose your ticket. There is a big chance, your case will be put on hold, until you resolve the ticket, then get the oath reschedulled and get your citizenship some time in fall.
Scenario 3. Go to the oath ceremony, "forget" to disclose the ticket.... You may be in trouble if it's discovered one day... NOT RECOMMENDED... STRONGLY NOT RECOMMENDED.
P.S. The general guideline for IO is to make sure you don't have any unpaid fines due by the moment of examination/naturalization. Yes, nowdays some of them give you a break on simple traffic tickets. Again, this is just the current practice, which may change. You don't want to be caught in a situation, when you are accused of lying to USCIS and the only argument you would have is "the officer didn't explicitly ask me this".
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Thanks. Tour scenarios 1 & 2, Do you see any chance of forgiveness even though the ticket is taking care of. Is anyone out there with this situation that can guide me through or do I need immigration attorney to get sworn in on the scheduled date. I am totally confused and about to lose my mind over this stupid mistake.
Thanks. I am really stressed out with my petty stupid mistake. It may end up costing me attorney fee/paying the ticket. May have to release the already paid traffic attorney and go solo to the court to expedite my case.
Thank you all for all sorts of advises.
Scenario 4: Hire a prostitute to claim he/she was driving at the time. Explain to wife what it "really" involves to obtain US citizenship.
Moral of the story: you've already been approved for oath ceremony. If USCIS was going to pursue you for withholding evidence at the naturalization interview because you didn't disclose a minor ticket, they would have already done so.
solicitation of prostitution. It's misdemeanor.
Lying to IO. It's a ban for citizenship... at the very least
USCIS is not aware yet of the traffic ticket, since this information was not disclosed by the applicant. However, if the applicant gets the immigration benefit, without the proper disclosing of the fact of citation, that would be considered a lie.
solicitation of prostitution. It's misdemeanor.
Lying to IO. It's a ban for citizenship... at the very least
USCIS is not aware yet of the traffic ticket, since this information was not disclosed by the applicant. However, if the applicant gets the immigration benefit, without the proper disclosing of the fact of citation, that would be considered a lie.
Very interesting idea and suggestions. I plan to walk into the oath ceremony in Maryland in August, tell the IO my story, hopefully already pay my fines and hope for the best. I thank you all for series of suggestions and advices given to me. Will come back and let you all know what happen. Stay tune