I-485 filed, actual time to physical Green Card?

[phlom]

Hi,

First post on this forum, although I've read a lot. This question is about the actual time one can expect to have to wait for a physical plastic green card.

I've been in the US since 2000 on O-1. I-140 (EB3) with PERM was approved this year, and I-485 was filed under July/August bulletin. So everything should be in order. We have an excellent lawyer.

But one thing I can't figure out is that even though DOS stated that the visa numbers were available for July/August, USCIS can't just issue green cards if the numbers aren't actually available. So what period of time do the gurus on this board think that the wait will actually be until a physical green card is issued? Of course, the EAD will be issued long before, and that's fine, even though I will continue my O-1 employment for as long as possible, so I don't really depend on the EAD. But I like the knowledge that with a green card, and having worked a solid chunk of time with the sponsoring employer, that I'm free to do anything I want.

I'm therefore curious what you think is the timeframe, and sequence of events.

Obviously, it will happen something like in this order:

1.) I-485 Receipt Notice -- very soon, or at least the first thing.
2.) EAD -- maybe a few months?
3.) I-485 Approval -- 6-8 months? Even with a million applications pouring in?
4.) Physical plastic green card -- 1 year? 2 years? 4 years? 6-8 months?

What's the timeframe for the actual green card, given the current climate of everybody scrambling to file, and the fact that Congress hasn't allowed unused green cards to be rolled over (and don't seem likely to allow it in the near future)?

Cheers,

Phlom

 

[ginnu]

Hi,

First post on this forum, although I've read a lot. This question is about the actual time one can expect to have to wait for a physical plastic green card.

I've been in the US since 2000 on O-1. I-140 (EB3) with PERM was approved this year, and I-485 was filed under July/August bulletin. So everything should be in order. We have an excellent lawyer.

But one thing I can't figure out is that even though DOS stated that the visa numbers were available for July/August, USCIS can't just issue green cards if the numbers aren't actually available. So what period of time do the gurus on this board think that the wait will actually be until a physical green card is issued? Of course, the EAD will be issued long before, and that's fine, even though I will continue my O-1 employment for as long as possible, so I don't really depend on the EAD. But I like the knowledge that with a green card, and having worked a solid chunk of time with the sponsoring employer, that I'm free to do anything I want.

I'm therefore curious what you think is the timeframe, and sequence of events.

Obviously, it will happen something like in this order:

1.) I-485 Receipt Notice -- very soon, or at least the first thing.
-----------------------------2-3 months to get I-485 reciept
2.) EAD -- maybe a few months?
3.) I-485 Approval -- 6-8 months?

------------------NO NO
Even with a million applications pouring in?
4.) Physical plastic green card -- 1 year? 2 years? 4 years? 6-8 months?
-----------------EB3 for India, China may take 3-5 years
What's the timeframe for the actual green card, given the current climate of everybody scrambling to file, and the fact that Congress hasn't allowed unused green cards to be rolled over (and don't seem likely to allow it in the near future)?

Cheers,

Phlom

-------------------

 

[TheRealCanadian]

I've been in the US since 2000 on O-1. I-140 (EB3) with PERM was approved this year

I'm amazed that you qualified for an O-1, but didn't file your I-140 under EB1.

 

[phlom]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I realized I wasn't subscribed. Yes, we did file twice for EB-1 I-140, and were denied. The standards are not the same, O-1 is 'exceptional', EB-1 is 'extraordinary'. While the examiner thought I could be very proud of my career, it wasn't enough for EB-1. I've gotten O-1 many times repeatedly.

Phlom

 

[ginnu]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I realized I wasn't subscribed. Yes, we did file twice for EB-1 I-140, and were denied.

The standards are not the same, O-1 is 'exceptional', EB-1 is 'extraordinary'.
-------------------------not correct I know about 15 cases that got O-1 and then got EB1 approved. If one can get O-1 one may be eligible for EB1 it all depends on the evidence that you have for EB1.

While the examiner thought I could be very proud of my career, it wasn't enough for EB-1. I've gotten O-1 many times repeatedly.

Phlom

--------------------

 

[phlom]

Well, the exceptional/extraordinary distinction is true, but maybe your friend was both exceptional and extraordinary. I have been approved for O-1 five times and denied for EB-1 two times based on the exact same evidence. And I mean exact same. So we gave up on the EB-1 strategy.

But regarding the time frame, I should say that I'm a citizen of a country in Scandinavia -- what is your feeling about the timeframe to the actual piece of plastic?

Phlom

 

[TheRealCanadian]

But regarding the time frame, I should say that I'm a citizen of a country in Scandinavia -- what is your feeling about the timeframe to the actual piece of plastic?

It all depends what EB3 ROW (Rest of World) does. (I'm assuming that you were born in Scandinaiva; it's allocated based on birth, not citizenship.) If EB3-ROW moves forward to something in 2003 or 2004 come October 1st, then you might be looking at two years or so for your PD to become current.

The last few months have been so crazy that I'm very reluctant to speculate on what will happen going forward.

 

[phlom]

So you're saying that visa allocation goes by PD even though I-485 was filed under the July bulletin? I thought the PD merely established the eligibility date for filing the I-485. What exactly is USCIS' plan then regarding visa allocation? Will a visa be allocated when the I-485 is approved? Or in other words, is it possible for USCIS to approve the I-485 and NOT allocate a visa? That doesn't seem to make sense, and I've never heard this before.

Yes, born in Scandinavia.

Thanks!

Phlom

 

[compass]

The shortest time from filing I-485 to actial GC I am aware of is 19 days (it happened to one of my colleagues a while ago), the longest one (with visa numbers always 'current') I heard of is 4.5 years.
So - yours should be somewhere inbetween

 

[TheRealCanadian]

I thought the PD merely established the eligibility date for filing the I-485.

No. You require a current Priority Date for your I-485 to be filed, and approved.

What exactly is USCIS' plan then regarding visa allocation? Will a visa be allocated when the I-485 is approved? Or in other words, is it possible for USCIS to approve the I-485 and NOT allocate a visa?

The last step in I-485 adjudication is the allocation of a visa number. If one cannot be assigned, the I-485 cannot be approved.

 

[phlom]

This seems odd. So you're saying that the 300,000 or whatever I-485 filings that have just been made based on the July/August bulletin when we were all current, will either be rejected or stalled forever?

Obviously, the PD has to be current, and as of July/August we were basically all current. My posting was merely relating to a previous poster who seemed to say that the PD has to be current for the I-485 to be approved (not filed), which would seem to imply that if USCIS retrogress next month, all the I-485's that have just been filed will be rejected BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

This doesn't seem to make sense. When we were current last month and we all filed, it was because we were all current. Ergo, the 'PD being current' should be satisfied, and no longer an issue. How does the PD come up AFTER the I-485 filing? How can the PD, once satisfied, be a factor in the I-485 adjudication? They let us in, and thus we're in. Right?

Phlom.

 

[atmaram]

AOS queues...

This seems odd. So you're saying that the 300,000 or whatever I-485 filings that have just been made based on the July/August bulletin when we were all current, will either be rejected or stalled forever?

Obviously, the PD has to be current, and as of July/August we were basically all current. My posting was merely relating to a previous poster who seemed to say that the PD has to be current for the I-485 to be approved (not filed), which would seem to imply that if USCIS retrogress next month, all the I-485's that have just been filed will be rejected BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

This doesn't seem to make sense. When we were current last month and we all filed, it was because we were all current. Ergo, the 'PD being current' should be satisfied, and no longer an issue. How does the PD come up AFTER the I-485 filing? How can the PD, once satisfied, be a factor in the I-485 adjudication? They let us in, and thus we're in. Right?

Phlom.

Here's my take on this GC phase:

When your PD is current, your AOS (I-485) can be filed.
Once filed, AOS's are processed according to AOS receipt date until they reach the adjudication stage. At this point AOS's are in the "waiting for visa #" stage (and not rejected) and are adjudicated (i.e. assigned visa #) according to their PD (assuming all other forms previous to AOS i.e. I-140 for EB, are approved).

I am not sure what USCIS' policy is when visa #'s are available upto a PD and all AOS's are in the processing stage and none are waiting for adjudication. Do they actually pull PD eligible AOS's from the receipt date-based processing queue and process and adjudicate them first?

 

[TheRealCanadian]

This seems odd. So you're saying that the 300,000 or whatever I-485 filings that have just been made based on the July/August bulletin when we were all current, will either be rejected or stalled forever?

They won't be rejected, and they won't be stalled forever. Eventually their PDs will become current, and they'll get approved.

which would seem to imply that if USCIS retrogress next month, all the I-485's that have just been filed will be rejected BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

Nope. They'll just go into limbo for months until the PD for each alien becomes current and a visa becomes available again.

How does the PD come up AFTER the I-485 filing?

Because in order to become an immigrant in a numerically limited category (which all of the EB/FB categories are) you must have an immigrant visa number assigned to you. That doesn't happen until the I-485 is approved.

How can the PD, once satisfied, be a factor in the I-485 adjudication? They let us in, and thus we're in.

Unless you have a Green Card or an I-551 stamp in your passport, you're not "in". You're simply being allowed to stay temporarily until your GC application is approved; that's all the I-485 does.

 

[phlom]

Unless you have a Green Card or an I-551 stamp in your passport, you're not "in". You're simply being allowed to stay temporarily until your GC application is approved; that's all the I-485 does.

When I say 'in', I mean that you're in the I-485 queue, which is what they did by making everyone's PD current: they let everybody 'in'. I'm not saying 'in' the country, of course you need to maintain status.

But still, nobody has answered my question. There are many experts saying many very smart things that have little to do with the question.

Phlom

 

[phlom]

And I should say that the USCIS field manual does not mention anything about adjudicating I-485's based on PD, or modifying the order I-485's are processed in. The PD simply establishes eligibility to file, and as I read the field manual, the moment I-485's have been filed, they are simply adjudicated in the order received. All it mentions is that the adjudicator has to verify that the PD was current at the time of filing.

As I understand it, the only thing the PD does is establish the date the I-485 is eligible to be filed. After that, the I-485 processing appears completely mechanical, i.e. I-485 applications don't appear top be swapped around internally at the USCIS in order to bring some I-485's to the front of the adjudication queue and some to the back.

But I guess the conclusion is that nobody really knows the answer to the question, which is the timeframe at this point to physical green card. Without the July/August bulletin, maybe things followed a more linear path, so I'm asking, given the current climate, what the time-markers and time-frame are to the physical piece of plastic. That's OK too, maybe there isn't an answer. And I'm asking maybe as just a curiosity, as I have no problem maintaining non-immigrant status or AP status. I'm just truly curious, when will it be?

Phlom

 

[TheRealCanadian]

The PD simply establishes eligibility to file, and as I read the field manual, the moment I-485's have been filed, they are simply adjudicated in the order received.

It does not. If you search around for the I-485 ajudication manual (it's an old INS publication linked on this site somewhere that lists how I-485s should be handled from the mailroom to approval) it clearly states that a visa number MUST be obtained from DOS before the I-485 is approved.

After that, the I-485 processing appears completely mechanical, i.e. I-485 applications don't appear top be swapped around internally at the USCIS in order to bring some I-485's to the front of the adjudication queue and some to the back.

That's because for quite a while, visa numbers were current. For an even longer time, they never moved backwards. So the simplest thing was to process all the I-485s on a FIFO basis. However, INS (and now USCIS) does track the priority date of an I-485 application, and CANNOT approve it without a visa number - which requires a current PD.

I've been in the room when the adjudicator approved my I-485, and I watched her log into a secure DOS web site to request and allocate a visa number. It was the last thing she did before stamping my passport.

But I guess the conclusion is that nobody really knows the answer to the question, which is the timeframe at this point to physical green card.

As I've told you, we have no idea when your PD will become current - and when you are in a retrogressed situation that is the first thing that needs to be addressed. Until your PD becomes current USCIS will not even bother looking at your file if they have other, better things to do with petitions that can be adjudicated right away.

 

[phlom]

So it appears then that the main advantage to everyone having been current in July is merely that everyone gets on AP indefinitely, but regarding getting your I-485 processed, nothing has really happened, as the system is still as retrogressed as it was before. Whether you're let 'in' the queue or not, it then appears that nothing will happen until the PD becomes current. It would also mean that unless you really need the AP, filing the I-485 under the July bulletin was basically irrelevant. Is this a correct assessment?

Phlom

 

[icici]

So it appears then that the main advantage to everyone having been current in July is merely that everyone gets on AP indefinitely, but regarding getting your I-485 processed, nothing has really happened, as the system is still as retrogressed as it was before. Whether you're let 'in' the queue or not, it then appears that nothing will happen until the PD becomes current. It would also mean that unless you really need the AP, filing the I-485 under the July bulletin was basically irrelevant. Is this a correct assessment?

Phlom

It is probably irrelevant to you..but not to others. Here are a few scenarios:
1. Spouse is on dependant visa (H4?) and qualified but cannot work because of visa status. Filing I145 allows EAD for spouse too which allows them to work. (My spouse was in this scenario for 8+ years..think how frustrating it must be).
2. It allows u the option to change ur employer 180+ days after filing I145 (AC21) without loosing ur # in the GC q. I am sure there are more than a few ppl. who have (for various reasons) been short-ended (less pay, reduced career development etc) by their employer because of their GC processing.

I am sure there are other cases too ..

my 2 cents.

 

[phlom]

Yes, I'm suspecting that this I-485 filing was somewhat irrelevant to especially us... we simply did it because we were current in July, and not understanding the full consequences, we thought we'd better get ourselves in line. But actually, my wife doesn't work, and I get most of my income from a successful piece of intellectual property, so the actual work is to do something interesting while maintaining my status. The work income is more a sort of bonus. I'm not even sure I'm going to switch to AP. But it appears that for us, filing the I-485 was somewhat wasted energy and money.

But in conclusion, all this appears to mean that whether the I-485 was filed or not doesn't really impact when you will receive the physical plastic green card, as nothing will happen until your PD becomes current. And since our PD is in 2006, it could be a while, possibly a very very long while.

This raises some AC21 portability questions, which I'm going to post in another thread. I will post link here in case anyone is interested.

Phlom

 

[ordinaria]

Yes, I'm suspecting that this I-485 filing was somewhat irrelevant to especially us... we simply did it because we were current in July, and not understanding the full consequences, we thought we'd better get ourselves in line. But actually, my wife doesn't work, and I get most of my income from a successful piece of intellectual property, so the actual work is to do something interesting while maintaining my status. The work income is more a sort of bonus. I'm not even sure I'm going to switch to AP. But it appears that for us, filing the I-485 was somewhat wasted energy and money.

But in conclusion, all this appears to mean that whether the I-485 was filed or not doesn't really impact when you will receive the physical plastic green card, as nothing will happen until your PD becomes current. And since our PD is in 2006, it could be a while, possibly a very very long while.

This raises some AC21 portability questions, which I'm going to post in another thread. I will post link here in case anyone is interested.

Phlom

Your case is very unusual and specific, and doesn't reflect the vast majority of EB applicants (which do need a job to earn a living as well as could benefit from their spouses working)

Now, in terms of whether filing in July impacts or not your approval date, it does. While you will not receive a GC until your PD is current, your application will be processed in the meantime. That is fingerprints, other security checks, file review, etc. This takes a minimum of 6 mo, up to a few years (ave. 9-12 months). So let's say that in a year from now your PD is current (or two years, or three), you would be allocated a visa number right away as opposed to having to submit your I-485 at that time and then waiting an additional 9-12 months.