How late is too late?. Now It is Panic time...
- Thread starter Nina1980
- Start date
Then you are fine. No matter what it is just traffic violations. Many just hide traffic violation without any trouble
By the way, is the oral conversation during the interview
recorded into the written record word for word?
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Yes. Anything you request to be changed or added is written down and then they update it in the system.
If you search the forum for posts by nyc_newbie, you'll be shocked to find out that his application was denied for a couple of speeding tickets. Judging by his interview experience, the IO seemed like she had personal issues with traffic violations and was out to deny nyc_newbie, but something just didn't add up. Last I heard, he filed an appeal and disappeared from the forum.
As far as the oral conversation goes, I haven't seen any recording devices anywhere in the IO's office. However, there may be a voice-activated system that we don't know about.
Could it be due to two tickets that happen too close in a time frame?
I really cannot understand it.
Did he mention the denial letter specifically say the denial is due to two
traffic violations? If you read that "denial due to registering to vote" thread,
you can find the denial letter is very detailed and specific about why
it is denied.
Yes, his letter stated that his application is denied due to "Reason for denial: Lack of good moral character - because I had 2 speeding tickets within the statutory period and that service records show a pattern of traffic violations!!!! (4 tickets in total since 2000)."
Read more here:
http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=1977745#post1977745
Here's nyc_newbie's interview experience post, where he makes it pretty clear that the IO had an issue with his tickets:
http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=1977667#post1977667
Maybe the IO indeed saw a pattern. 4 tickets in 8 years and one in every two years.
It's possible. Then again, if this was the case, most NYC applicants who drive would get declined. Also, take a look at my oath experience post. The IO in charge of the ceremony (a senior officer, judging by her demeanor) gave a 2-3 minute speech, instructing everyone not to list traffic tickets on the back of the oath letter. In other words, I could have received a ticket every day during the month between my interview and the oath, and it wouldn't have made any difference. I think nyc_newbie was simply unfortunate enough to be interviewed by an IO who got up on the wrong side of the bed that morning.
ATLANTA_N400
Registered Users (C)
OMG!!!.
I am re-thinking. Again!.
Was that a mistake to list those minor speeding tickets ?
It is not good for my health not getting sleep for the next 2 weeks
I have now one more (fresh) ticket to disclose about.
I thought I was calming down. Please don't make me nervouse again
This calls for those who really declared traffic tickets(at any point in the process) -
...to share their experiences.
Please... Help.
I am re-thinking. Again!.
Was that a mistake to list those minor speeding tickets ?
It is not good for my health not getting sleep for the next 2 weeks
I have now one more (fresh) ticket to disclose about.
I thought I was calming down. Please don't make me nervouse again
This calls for those who really declared traffic tickets(at any point in the process) -
...to share their experiences.
Please... Help.
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Official USCIS instructions for N-400 say:
"Note that unless a traffic incident was alcoholor drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500 and/or points on your driver's license."
"Note that unless a traffic incident was alcoholor drug related, you do not need to submit documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less than $500 and/or points on your driver's license."
That being said, we do read from some posters's experiences, IOs ask
for court documents and proof of payment etc
Unfortunately they are decision makers. We need them to approve our application. They can simply say they are not sure our traffic tickets only involve sub-500 dollars fine and want to see the details
This is purely academic, but do IOs have the authority to deny an application if the applicant doesn't provide proof of payment for traffic violations that fall into the uner $500/non-DUI criteria?
ATLANTA_N400
Registered Users (C)
Confused!!!
I don't know If I should reveal the 3rd ticket.
Anybody with 3 tickets declared got a free pass in Atlanta or any other DO ?.
TIA
I don't know If I should reveal the 3rd ticket.
Anybody with 3 tickets declared got a free pass in Atlanta or any other DO ?.
TIA
What happened to nyc_newbie is something that's definitely out of the norm. In an overwhelming majority of cases, the IOs don't care about traffic tickets at all. The most they may do is ask for proof of payment. It's up to you whether or not you want to declare it, but you'll be fine either way. Don't lose sleep over it, it's not a big issue.
For instance, one of my co-workers didn't disclose any traffic tickets on his N-400, but volunteered to do so at the interview. The IO just waved him off, telling him that they only care about criminal citations.
They do have authority to deny any application. However, we should look whether such denials can stand in the courts of law.
In Re Petition for Naturalization of Odeh, 185 F. Supp. 953 (1960), the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division, found that an alien who had 16 traffic tickets between September 1956 and June 1958 involving speeding 5-10 mph over limit, improper or prohibited turns, failure to change address on driver’s license, insufficient lights, driving the wrong way on a one-way street, excessive noise, and failure to stop after slightly damaging an automobile was eligible for U.S. citizenship. In the court’s view, the traffic tickets did not warrant denial of the petition for Naturalization. The Odeh Court explained that the applicant’s actions did not constitute the incidents envisioned by Congress as detracting from a person’s qualification for citizenship.
Other courts have reached a similar conclusion. See Yin-Shing Woo v. United States, 288 F.2d 434, 435 (2d Cir. 1961) (holding that disregard of parking laws, even as many as twenty-three times, is not so “inimical” to the good order of the nation as to justify denial of naturalization); Puciaty v. Dep’t of Justice, 125 F. Supp. 2d 1035, 1040-41 (D. Hawaii 2000) (finding failure to pay civil judgment insufficient to support determination of poor moral character).
See also Plewa vs. INS, 77 F. Supp. 2d 905; 1999 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 19652 (1999)
"In determining good moral character, the courts quite realistically have recognized that "we do not require perfection in our new citizens." Klig v. U.S., 296 F.2d 343, 346 (2nd Cir. 1961). The standard of good moral character in the naturalization context is that "petitioner's character must measure up to that of the average citizen in the community in which he resides before he is entitled to citizenship by naturalization." Brukiewicz v. Savoretti, 211 F.2d 541, 543 (5th Cir. 1954). Good moral character is also defined as: "A pattern of behavior that is consistent with the community's current ethical standards and that shows an absence of deceit or morally reprehensible conduct." BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY 701 (7th ed. 1999). "
(the court granted citizenship even though an applicant did not disclose an arrest on N-400).
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lazycis, thanks for the info. I remember reading about the 1958 case involving the immigrant with 16 traffic tickets. In my personal opinion, applicants with a pending N-400 who choose to disclose minor traffic violations should provide proof of payment/court disposition, regardless of whether or not the ticket fits the criteria outlined in the Guide to Naturalization. While an applicant would be well within their right to argue with an overzealous IO that the USCIS regulations clearly instruct the applicant not to provide documentation for non-DUI traffic tickets under $500, it would be imprudent to delay the application, or even cause the application to be denied and have to file a lawsuit to reverse the decision.
On the other hand, an applicant can always choose not to disclose minor traffic tickets.
On the other hand, an applicant can always choose not to disclose minor traffic tickets.