Triple Citizen
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Each to his own I guess. I just cannot let that happen, as far as I am concerned.
How has USC and US Passport changed your life?
- Thread starter Mombasa_guy
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Wow, that's really some painful process just to renew the Canadian Passport! And I thought my "old" country's bureaucracy was over the top
CalGreenCard
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Wow, that's really some painful process just to renew the Canadian Passport! And I thought my "old" country's bureaucracy was over the top
Many of these steps no longer apply for renewals but only for a first adult Canadian passport. However these steps used to apply even for renewals--it used to be one needed to apply from scratch each time. When my last Canadian passport expired (in 2003) I realized that using the combination of my birth country's passport and a Canadian citizenship card would involve far less bureaucracy than renewing the Canadian passport.
I didn't have to renew my birth country's passport until 2010 and, when I did, the process took just 24 hours (from their USA consulate).
Were I to get a new Canadian passport now I'd need to apply from scratch and hence the complex process. If I get a block of about three months where I know for certain I'll have no need to travel to Canada--for pleasure, for business, or for family--I might do so. But I rarely get such a block of time. Both my USA passport and my birth country's passport have >8 years of validity remaining so there is no urgent need for a Canadian passport.
CalGreenCard
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You obviously don't need to answer if you don't want, but I was curious as to the reason. Is this just due to an emotional attachment to Canada where you really want to keep your Canadian passport despite now being a US citizen now--or is there a practical reason too?
As I'm sure you know, holding a country's passport is not related to holding on to the country's citizenship. You can retain (e.g.) Canadian citizenship without keeping your Canadian passport renewed. (The converse is not true, though--if you aren't a Canadian citizen you aren't supposed to have a Canadian passport.)
I have no desire to give up my legal claim to Canadian citizenship--although I see the USA as home now. But I'm very hard pressed to identify a situation in which the Canadian passport would add any practical value for a naturalized US citizen with a US passport. It is true that there is a much increased need to carry a passport when crossing the border these days. However, that requirement is an American requirement--it's not a Canadian requirement. Once you have a USA passport, a Canadian passport provides little added value from the point of view of the American authorities--indeed it may needlessly confuse and complicate things.
If I'm living in the USA as a US citizen, all my international travel will begin and end in the USA--so carrying some passport other than the USA's would, again, needlessly confuse things.
Also within Canada I'm not aware of any situation where a Canadian passport would be a preferred form of identification to a citizenship card.
Also I would add one more item to my list of hassles associated with renewing a Canadian passport:
9.the need to update my NEXUS records whenever my Canadian passport renews. A Canadian citizenship card, OTOH, is perfectly fine from the point of view of the Canadian authorities--and it never has to be renewed and hence no need to update NEXUS records.
Do you know of a situation where a Canadian passport really offers a practical benefit for a dual USA-Canadian citizen living in the USA with a USA passport?
cafeconleche
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Canadian passport holders can enter some countries with FAR fewer hassles, such as Iran, Cuba, Libya, etc. Also, some visa fees are much less for Canadians. Of course, if you don't have the need for all of this, then why not save your money
Also, I'm sure you know that once the ePassport is introduced, it will be valid for 10 years. It is supposed to have been introduced last year, so, who knows when it'll happen. Still, the longer Canada goes without a chipped passport, the better for those who hold it, I think.
Also, I'm sure you know that once the ePassport is introduced, it will be valid for 10 years. It is supposed to have been introduced last year, so, who knows when it'll happen. Still, the longer Canada goes without a chipped passport, the better for those who hold it, I think.
Triple Citizen
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A number of countries where it is much better for the holder to travel on a Canadian passport versus a US passport if that holder has the luxury of holding both passports.
In my case I have the "luxury" to hold a passport of my "old" country, but I prefer to use my US passport and my "old" country national ID card. The cost and burden to hold my "old" country passport outweighs its benefits. But this is of course a personal decision. My brother for example wants to hold two passports and he does not mind to go through the hassle and to pay extra for it.
Triple Citizen
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That is true. I naturalised in Canada in 2000. The same year I renewed my Pakistani passport which expired blank in 2005. Renewed it again and it expired blank in 2010. Renewed it again and I am pretty sure it will expire blank in 2015. However, being the person I am, I know I will always have all three of my passports valid and ready for use if need be.
CalGreenCard
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Canadian passport holders can enter some countries with FAR fewer hassles, such as Iran, Cuba, Libya, etc. Also, some visa fees are much less for Canadians. Of course, if you don't have the need for all of this, then why not save your money
The money is small potatoes for me--a concern, but a minor one. The main issue is the requirement that I give up ALL proof of Canadian citizenship (my citizenship card plus any unexpired passport) for some indeterminate time while Canada processes my renewal. Said 'indeterminate time' is likely to be at least a month, but I need to allow for longer in case of delays like rejected photos, etc. During that time I'm NOT free to travel to Canada. Giving up freedom to travel to Canada in exchange for freedom to travel to Libya is not a trade that interests me. Perhaps if I had family in Libya I'd feel differently.
Definitely a step in the right direction once it does happen. I still need to find a block of 3 months when I can be 100% sure that my employer won't want me to travel to Canada on business and there won't be any family activity I want to get to. Not easy to do. It's not that I necessarily travel to Canada all that frequently--it's that the freedom to do so is of value to my family, my employer, and myself.
CalGreenCard
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True. Not meaning to one-up you
but I have a total of four citizenships. From a passport perspective the Canadian passport is definitely the ugly duckling among the four. Not a commentary on the country--just a commentary on the country's passport process.I'd be surprised if there is any country in the world where a Canadian passport offers an advantage over all three other passports I'm entitled to.
But let's assume someone has two (and only two) passports in play: Canada and the USA. I'm still not sure I follow you. If I'm a US citizen and I live in the USA, and my itinerary either begins or ends in the USA, I'm going to have to show the airline my USA passport and have it with me. If I'm travelling to a country where they like Canadians but hate Americans, I'd still be pretty cautious. Between info received from the airline and a possible search of my luggage, they still may find out about my USA passport. If that is likely to lead to negative consequences I probably wouldn't travel.
The sole exception that I can think of might be Cuba, where the issue isn't so much the Cuban authorities but rather the American authorities placing restrictions on their own citizens traveling there. I can see where a Canadian passport might help one get around American law in this case. As an American citizen, my own preference is to abide by American law unless I have a very good reason for practicing civil disobedience--and a vacation to Cuba doesn't qualify in my view.
CalGreenCard
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A worthy goal but one that the Canadian passport office makes impossible to achieve. During the extended renewal processing time, the old passport is sitting on some bureaucrat's desk in Gatineau--it's definitely NOT valid and ready for use and that's the problem I have with the process. What's worse, the backup document--the Canadian citizenship card--is also sitting on said bureaucrat's desk--still valid, but definitely not ready for use.
My own goal is to have some document allowing travel to Canada valid and ready for use at all times. All times doesn't mean 59 out of every 60 months--it means 60 out of every 60 months. If the Canadian authorities don't care whether that document is a citizenship card or a passport--and they don't, the passport requirement being a US requirement--it is not a big issue for me.
Plus I occasionally read horror stories on immigration boards of Canadian citizens being trapped in the USA for years because their passport applications keep getting rejected--generally because for whatever reason they don't easily 'take' photos that are acceptable. Granted that is a worst case scenario and 99.9% of the time it isn't nearly that bad--but I don't see any upside to exposing myself to the risk.
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CalGreenCard, are you really surprised that someone may want to keep all passports from different countries valid despite the bureaucratic hassles? If anything, the Canadian passport can be a useful back-up travel/identity document should your US passport be lost in a foreign country.
CalGreenCard
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Yes I'm a bit surprised because my solution involves fewer bureaucratic hassles. I put up with bureaucratic hassles when I have to--and I've had to put up with a lot of it in my life. When it can be avoided I prefer to avoid it. Generally speaking a Canadian passport isn't necessary for a dual/multiple citizen living elsewhere assuming someone carries at least one passport that allows visa-free travel to Canada.
Is your national ID card a valid travel document according to the ICAO? For instance, a German personalausweis can be used as a travel document for travel to selected countries, but it can be used unconditionally to enter Germany regardless of the mode of transportation. The difference between the German personalausweis and the Canadian citizenship certificate is that the earlier will allow you to board the plane bound for Germany from any country in the world while the latter will only allow you to enter Canada after you already landed in a Canadian airport.
What grinds my gears is the US Dept of State putting artificial limitations on its own passport card so that it cannot be used as a travel document as defined by the ICAO. The card has everything it needs to have to be a travel document except for the signature. So, now it is not valid for travel by air because the signature was purposefully omitted by the issuing agency. Ughh...
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CalGreenCard
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Really a personal decision, as I said earlier. I prefer US passport only and I use my national ID card of my "old" country if need be. My brother prefers to have both passports. His time, his money, his decision
I agree it is a personal decision. I'm trying to figure out whether it is just a matter of personal preference or whether there is a clear advantage to having the Canadian passport--a clear situation where a Canadian passport will be required and a foreign passport+Canadian citizenship card won't cut it.
So far the only tangible situations mentioned have been travel to Cuba and perhaps a few other countries with historically difficult relations with the USA where it might be prudent to use a Canadian passport.
Using the Canadian passport as a "backup document" seems a bit vague to me. What are the situations where this would be of benefit? I don't think you can just use one passport to enter a foreign country and a second passport to leave. You'd still need a replacement passport of some kind. The Canadian passport might work simply as a form of ID when visiting the US consulate but wouldn't US ID--eg a passport card, a NEXUS card, a driver's license, etc--be better?
As a matter of personal choice--where there may be no specific known advantage but one simply wants the Canadian passport in case some situation arises you haven't thought of--obviously that is everyone's call to make personally.
CalGreenCard
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Very true. The Canadian citizenship certificate is NOT a travel document. I see that as a feature, not a bug, at this point. I prefer to be treated as a Canadian citizen only when actually within Canada, not while traveling. In that way I only need to show one passport per itinerary to the airlines.
Nope, my old country's national ID card alone is not good for travel at all. For me, it is US passport + national ID card for travel to/from my old country; otherwise, for all other countries, I use my US passport only.
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Triple Citizen
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You need to read up on the new renewal process. Original proof of citizenship no longer needs to be sent.
CalGreenCard
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Yes, that is correct. I should have made myself clearer. For routine renewals, only the old passport need be sent and the citizenship card/birth certificate/etc need not be sent. But if your passport has lapsed, as mine did in 2003, you still need to go through the whole process, including sending in the citizenship card, to get a new passport.
Yes, the situation has improved alot since 2003, although I would still say that the service Canada provides is not as good as the USA or my birth country--but they are getting close and may pretty much close the gap when they starting issuing the new 10-year passports.
The situation was quite different in 2003. Canadian passport applications sent from the USA were routinely taking 3+ months with rejections due to photos being common. And there was no way to know in advance if the photos would be sent back and no way to expedite things and no way to simplify things for renewals.
At the time my last Canadian passport expired in 2003, I didn't have my GC and I wanted proof of citizenship in my possession at all times in case of a job layoff and the need to apply for a new TN (or to return to Canada if necessary). At the time proof of citizenship was still sufficient to cross the border in either direction. By the time the USA tightened the rules with the WHTI (beginning in 2007), I had my GC and, especially in combination with my birth country passport, there seemed little need for a Canadian passport.