poongunranar
Registered Users (C)
Request and Response to disney2k
Dear Beloved:
Can we hug each other with signs of peace? I do not want to name anybody but look at the hypocrisy, brothers and sisters -- While my meaningful digression and explanation was subjected to extreme mockery as being too verbose, etc., what we are seeing for more than 3-4 pages with tens of postings are vituperative attacks against each other. Honestly one should stop, breathe, and then ask one's own self, if they are fomenting trouble or creating amity in the forum. This is the reason, I pleaded and still keep pleading all of those detractors of mine to ignore me and just either counter my arguments or even just ignore them as well. And isakimuthu friend, kindly do not do anything that would brand all TSC folks as being bellicose, because we TSC folks already do not have a good name in general because we are considered to be not proactive and cooperative. I have read such comments elsewhere and when you openly say that you belong to TSC and if you engage in verbal attacks that weakens all of us, especially TSC folks as well. So, to you as well
eace. I have nothing to say about the 'senior member' of this forum, who is not able to embrace and lead others, rather is becoming more of a center of controversy by fighting with everybody. To you, my brother, PEACE as well.
That much said, let me stick on to what I said -- I will comment only on direct questions addressed to me, so that I don't get sucked into this controversy and fisticuffs.
Dear Beloved:
Can we hug each other with signs of peace? I do not want to name anybody but look at the hypocrisy, brothers and sisters -- While my meaningful digression and explanation was subjected to extreme mockery as being too verbose, etc., what we are seeing for more than 3-4 pages with tens of postings are vituperative attacks against each other. Honestly one should stop, breathe, and then ask one's own self, if they are fomenting trouble or creating amity in the forum. This is the reason, I pleaded and still keep pleading all of those detractors of mine to ignore me and just either counter my arguments or even just ignore them as well. And isakimuthu friend, kindly do not do anything that would brand all TSC folks as being bellicose, because we TSC folks already do not have a good name in general because we are considered to be not proactive and cooperative. I have read such comments elsewhere and when you openly say that you belong to TSC and if you engage in verbal attacks that weakens all of us, especially TSC folks as well. So, to you as well
eace. I have nothing to say about the 'senior member' of this forum, who is not able to embrace and lead others, rather is becoming more of a center of controversy by fighting with everybody. To you, my brother, PEACE as well.That much said, let me stick on to what I said -- I will comment only on direct questions addressed to me, so that I don't get sucked into this controversy and fisticuffs.
No friend. I am on a personal mission. I will never give up. Thanks for your kind words.
We have a lot of strong arguments in our favor. Please note that I had precisely asked Rajiv if INS will try to bring in mootness to attentuate our case, to which he had done a very good Shepardize and summed up the case-law pointers. To give you a few strong points,
- Obviously, a CATEGORY of applicants are affected. Even if all the 30 odd plaintiffs are adjudicated, yet the problems arising out of these delays are going to be challenged in a court of law. Hence this CLASS of petitioners, whose case have been pending for impractical tenures will have to be investigated as a CLASS per se.
- Due to the myriad number of issues with VARYING problems clearly exist, prima facie a case exists for Class-Action.
- One of the things that the court will closely have to analyze and answer if this should be admitted as Class-Action is to see the PROBABILITY or the LIKELIHOOD of such CATEGORY/CLASS of applicants knocking the doors of justice for relief. ( As it is immediately obvious that INS is not going to be able to resolve the backlogs immediately, this class of litigants are only going to be on the rise and if this case is not heard as a class-action suit, individual litigants are going to flood the courts with cases -- a fundamental point that the court cannot be oblivious to.)
- Now, as Rajiv had said, the case can even be dismissed, because of a POSSIBLE inability for us to NOT being able to cater to the LEVEL/STANDARD OF PROOF the judge expects in the case. Even so, I am diffident that this case will not be admitted as a class-action suit.
[/list=1]
OK, let us go the basics. A Judge, when prayed for admitting a case for class-action will have to FIRST see, if at all the CASE can be admitted on a prima facie existence of facts. Don't worry about whether it is classified as CLASS ACTION at this stage. Just say, he (for simplicity sake pardon my sexist language. Thanks. "He" should be read as "He or She" etc.) admits the case, the next thing he has to look for admittance is the prayer portion that prays him for admitting the suit as a CLASS-ACTION suit. Now, the Judge should be convinced of this crucial fact: "So, they(plaintiffs) are asking for admittance as Class Action. Are there SUFFICIENT ENOUGH plaintiffs and even if they do are there VARYING DEGREES of issues involved, ultimately holding the DEFENDANTS responsible for all those varying issues? Can I order a JOINDER instead? (Joinder is an attempt to JOIN all the plaintiffs together for the suit in question and this is not close to admitting as CLASS-ACTION. Remember, Joinder is only for those litigants who have approached the court, whereas CLASS-ACTION includes you and me as well as isakimuthu
who was passionately concerned about his/her own case as well) Now the learned judge, after going through the litanies of the plaintiffs will decide, if there is a high likelihood of such types of people who are most likely to be affected with similar plaints, but yet, either haven't approached the courts or have a high probability to approach the court in future. If this crucial question is answered in the affirmative, he will immediately admit it as a Class-Action suit. This is where, Rajiv will leave no stone unturned to represent all those litanies. Now compare, his request to some of you to document and send him some rejection of CC applications, etc., to show to the court as to how many problems are arising out of not getting adjudicated in a timely manner and yet those people haven't approached the court!!! In a nutshell, Rajiv will be assumed by the Court to behave as a FIDUCIARY COUNSEL representing the interests of ABSENTEES TO SUIT like DISNEY2K, POONGUNRANAR, ISAKIMUTHU, etc. Also our fellow brethren plaintiffs will be construed by the court as pleading NOT ONLY FOR THEIR OWN RIGHTS, BUT FOR THE INHERENT RIGHTS OF A CLASS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE YET NOT APPROACHED THE COURT FOR RELIEF, BUT THE OUTCOME OF THE CURRENT SUIT WILL ORDER RELIEF NOT JUST FOR THE PLAINTIFFS BUT FOR THE CLASS AS A WHOLE. In a nutshell, for you and me. (Kindly pardon my block-letter emphasis, which even I hate, but am trying hard to drive the point.)
And don't kid yourselves. Often in a class-action suit, the court pays very important attention to the DIVERGENCE OF INTERESTS AMONGST PLAINTIFFS THEMSELVES; PLAINTIFFS Vs ATTORNEYS; PLAINTIFFS Vs THE CLASS THEY REPRESENT; PLAINTIFFS' LAWYER Vs THE CLASS HE REPRESENTS. This is why I am painstakingly asking people who attack me and others to stay calm, because, even before going to court, we are just slamming and attacking each other in a forum. If this is the demeanor we are going to adopt here, it is the very same factor that will ruin or mar the Class-Action suit in court. The art of persuasion and constructive dialogue and criticism is the key to winning class-action suits. Kindly bear that in mind before lashing out at each other.
Friend, my experience is only with State Courts and not with Federal Circuit Courts. Rajiv can give a better answer. But I know the process, somewhat. I think, before even the Judge admits or takes next step of action, Rajiv has to file a counter to the counter that INS has filed. Usually there will be a statute of limitation within which this has to be done. Rajiv is the man to explain on these things. I do not want to mislead with erroneous information. So, if you are asking a ball-park figure, I would safely guess that it would be another 3 months at least for us to see if this gets admitted as Class-Action. Rajivji can give a more peremptory estimate on this.
God bless and have a great weekend, all of you.
Last edited by a moderator:
), and I say this in no disrespectful manner- so my arguments is based on a lot of "breaking news" stories on TV. I believe the Judge has some rights not to grant extensions and filibusters. I have seen this happen where lawyers try to drag the case by asking for a change of venue etc. and the Judge comes back admonishing the lawyers, and does not grant the wishes of the lawyers. You do bring out a vaild point about defendants asking the judge to recuse, but that seldom happens (unless the judge has a personal opinion or a clear conflict of interest) - as the motion not to grant blanket extensions is tabled by the plaintiffs, the Judge has to rule based on the facts - the Judge has to take a stance, to the liking of one group or the other (obviously both parties cant be satisfied all the times) - the ruling can not be construed as a sell out of the Judge.