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confusedlpr

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I have a quick question. I've been a green card holder since 1999, and in 2004 I wen't abroad to study medicine (to pakistan). I used to come back every 6 months initially, but after my three years, i started coming every 10-11 months. While I had no problem entering the united states, my question is, now that I've been back permanently since june of last year, that when I complete my 2.5 years of living on american soil and I want to apply for my citizenship, will having stayed out for more than 6 months and less than a year affect my continuous residence. I read somewhere that if you were living abroad for studies, it won't break your continuous residence (as the courts ruled in Li v/s Chertoff).
Is this true guys? I'd appreciate your quick response...
 
I have a quick question. I've been a green card holder since 1999, and in 2004 I wen't abroad to study medicine (to pakistan). I used to come back every 6 months initially, but after my three years, i started coming every 10-11 months. While I had no problem entering the united states, my question is, now that I've been back permanently since june of last year, that when I complete my 2.5 years of living on american soil and I want to apply for my citizenship, will having stayed out for more than 6 months and less than a year affect my continuous residence. I read somewhere that if you were living abroad for studies, it won't break your continuous residence (as the courts ruled in Li v/s Chertoff).
Is this true guys? I'd appreciate your quick response...

You can read the actual court decision in Li v Chertoff at
http://pacer.mad.uscourts.gov/dc/cgi-bin/recentops.pl?filename=tauro/pdf/li_v_chertoff.pdf

A few thoughts.

1) The decision was made by a federal district court in Massachusetts (not even by an appeals court). I may be wrong, but I think that it only remains binding on USCIS in the geographical area covered by the jurisdiction of that district court, which is fairly small. Unless you happen to live there, I don't think you benefit directly.

2) The IOs adjudicating naturalization applications have rather wide discretion in determining if the continuous residency requirement has been satisfied. Here the case was unreasonably delayed (due to the background checks having taken several years) and the court assumed jurisdiction over the case and was in a sense serving as an IO, considering the application "from scratch" and examining the evidence to determine of the continuous residency requirement was satisfied by the applicant. [At least this is how I interpret the passage from p. 7 of the ruling "Here, USCIS has failed to adjudicate Plaintiff’s petition in a timely matter and is divested of jurisdiction. This court, therefore, is the fact finder which must decide the question of residence in the first instance."] So the court was exercising its discretionary judgement based on the particular circumstances of this case.

3) The decision does not say what you think it says. It does not rule that "if you were living abroad for studies, it won't break your continuous residence". To quote from p. 8 of the decision:

"The court’s ruling in this case does not establish the legal proposition that an applicant who moves to another
country for school remains a continuous resident of the United States."

Rather, the impetus of the ruling appears to be that the mere fact that the applicant in question obtained a Canadian green card (while studying dentistry in Canada) does not automatically imply that she broke continuous residency in the U.S. for naturalization purposes and that other relevant factors establishing ties to the U.S. can and should be looked at as well.

In this particular case the applicant maintained a house in the U.S. to which she retained physical access, her extended family remained in the U.S., she did not take a job in Canada and she continued filing resident tax returns in the U.S.
The court ultimately decided that these factors were sufficient for concluding that she satisfied the continuous residency requirement.

Now, even assuming that you happen to live in the area of jurisdiction of the Massachusetts district court, you did not provide enough information to see if you yourself maintained significant ties to the U.S. while studying in Pakistan, of the type that were present in this case.

E.g. did you maintain a house in the U.S. during your studies? Did you have immediate or extended family living here? Did you take a job or jobs in Pakistan? Did you file U.S. income tax returns? Etc.
 
Thank you for your immensely detailed answered. I really appreciate you having taken the time out.
My entire family resided in the states (father, mother, siblings etc.) I was 18-19 at the time when I left to study medicine, and I came back permanently at 25 as soon as I finished them (keep in mind that I used to come back every 10 months during my breaks). I maintained a drivers licence, my father used to file me as a dependent on his tax returns, never worked in pakistan; so yes, I suppose I maintained all ties to the united states, I even used to have mail delivered to my address over here.
With these facts in mind, do you think I saved myself from having broken my continuous residence?
 
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Thank you for your immensely detailed answered. I really appreciate you having taken the time out.
My entire family resided in the states (father, mother, siblings etc.) I was 18-19 at the time when I left to study medicine, and I came back permanently at 25 as soon as I finished them (keep in mind that I used to come back every 10 months during my breaks). I maintained a drivers licence, my father used to file me as a dependent on his tax returns, never worked in pakistan; so yes, I suppose I maintained all ties to the united states, I even used to have mail delivered to my address over here.
With these facts in mind, do you think I saved myself from having broken my continuous residence?

As I said in my first post, with determination of continuous residency a great deal is left to the discretion of the IO examining the application, and much depends on pure luck. So there are no 100% clear-cut answers and no absolute certainties.

However, given the circumstances you describe, I think you do have a reasonable shot at convincing the IO that your absences did not break continuous residency. (By the way, did your father pay for your education? If not, how did you support yourself while in medical school?)
So I'd say, yes, wait until you have satisfied the physical presence requirement and then file N-400 and see what happens. In the worst case, if you don't manage to convince the IO and your application gets denied, you only loose money (the application fee); you can always re-file later.
 
If you decide to apply once you hit 30 month physical presence mark, you will be asked to show evidence that you did not intend to break continuous residence. Unless you have extensive proof of this (not what you think is extensive proof) , your application would be denied.
 
As I said in my first post, with determination of continuous residency a great deal is left to the discretion of the IO examining the application, and much depends on pure luck. So there are no 100% clear-cut answers and no absolute certainties.

However, given the circumstances you describe, I think you do have a reasonable shot at convincing the IO that your absences did not break continuous residency. (By the way, did your father pay for your education? If not, how did you support yourself while in medical school?)
So I'd say, yes, wait until you have satisfied the physical presence requirement and then file N-400 and see what happens. In the worst case, if you don't manage to convince the IO and your application gets denied, you only loose money (the application fee); you can always re-file later.
Thanks! And yes, my father paid for my education and financially supported me during my stay over there. So I'm extremely blessed to be completely debt free at this point in life =P
Oh, btw, so I can apply 3 months before I'll be completing my 30 month mark, right..?
 
If you decide to apply once you hit 30 month physical presence mark, you will be asked to show evidence that you did not intend to break continuous residence. Unless you have extensive proof of this (not what you think is extensive proof) , your application would be denied.

Thank you, and yes, I'll obviously be sending whatever documents they ask me for. However, looking at the complexity, I'll probably go see a lawyer sometime next week!
 
Thanks! And yes, my father paid for my education and financially supported me during my stay over there. So I'm extremely blessed to be completely debt free at this point in life =P
Oh, btw, so I can apply 3 months before I'll be completing my 30 month mark, right..?

See INA 334(a), it is 3 months before reaching the 5 years as an LPR ONLY.

Regarding the proof of U.S. residence ties, see 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(i)(A-D).
 
INA Sec. 316. [8 U.S.C. 1427]

(a) No person, except as otherwise provided in this title, shall be naturalized, unless such applicant, (1) immediately preceding the date of filing his application for naturalization has resided continuously, after being lawfully admitted for permanent residence, within the United States for at least five years and during the five years immediately preceding the date of filing his application has been physically present therein for periods totaling at least half of that time, and who has resided within the State or within the district of the Service in the United States in which the applicant filed the application for at least three months, (2) has resided continuously within the United States from the date of the application up to the time of admission to citizenship, (3) during all the periods referred to in this subsection has been and still is a person of good moral character, attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States, and well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.

The statute requires a variety of conditions to be met at particular times in the process.

1.) The LPR or greencard status is a base requirement. In general and for most people, it is 5 years. This is quantitative in nature and is calculated forward from the "residence since" date on your greencard.
* INA 334(a) allows you to file 3 months early of this single requirement.
* A re-entry permit MGHT protect a greencard against a long absence of over 6 months and up to a maximum of 2 years. A re-entry permit does that and only that one function--protect the greencard status against a presumption of abandoning LPR status. It does not protect against any other ground of inadmissibility and does not protect naturalization eligibility.

2.) Physical presence is a prerequisite to file and is strictly quantitative in nature. It is calculated backward from the filing date. You cannot file early for this and once you file it becomes fixed in stone and irrelevant of futre events.

3.) Continuous residence is qualitative in nature and spans your entire "statutory period". The statutory period is, in general and for most, the 5 years immediately preceeding the filing of the N-400 and continues all the way through taking the Oath.
* This is strict in a sense and subjective in another sense.

** Under INA 316(b) and 8 CFR 316.5 (c)(1)(ii), an unexcused absence of one year or more breaks this eligibility requirement. An affirmative break in continuous residence resets the clock BUT not all the way back to day one. Instead of counting over for another 5 years or even the lower 4 years and 9 months, you only start counting over for 4 years and 1 day. That new counting will result in a later filing adte from which to count backwards for physical presence.

** While also under INA 316(b) but under 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(i) a six month but less than one year absence MIGHT break residence unless proven otherwise under 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(i)(A-D) as a regulatory implementation of INA 316(b).

** An anticipated absence of over a year may qualify for advance permission to count towards naturalization upon filing and approval of an N-470. This will preserve the original LPR "residence since" date on the greencard provided that on the filing date physical presence is met. In this situation, it may require a later filing date to meet the physical presence requirement rather than the continuous residence prerequisite to filing.

4.) Good Moral Charcater (GMC) is a whole other matter unto itself but it is also both strict and subjective (discretionary) and tied to the applicable "statutory peroid" which is counted backward from the filing date and continues through taking the oath.

Why is this so?

It is important to understand that the origin of the continuous residence requirement as a prerequisite to naturalization dates back to the Naturalization Act of 1790, which at that time required two years residence. The idea was, and remains, to allow a person to become "Americanized" or join into the society in which they desire citizenship and will enjoy the right to vote, or serve on juries, or hold any but the highest office. This residence has always been tied to the period immediately before naturalization in an effort to have a person enter the society as it currently exists.

If a person gets a greencard and immediately, or shortly thereafter, returns “home” for a long period or periods with only a few "visits" to the U.S. to maintain greencard status, then finally comes to stay in the U.S. just barely long enough to file for naturalization, and may thereafter depart again during the N-400 processing, the mere fact of having a greencard for a long enough period of time does not prepare that person to join the American society as it currently exists. They are strangers in a strange land and unprepared to become part of "We the People..."

In the case of: Luria v. United States, 231 U.S. 9, 34 S. Ct. 10, 58 L. Ed. 101 (1913), it was recognized by the U.S. Supreme Court that a grant of naturalization is a mutual agreement between the naturalization applicant and the United States of America.

This Supreme Court case is found at: http://openjurist.org/231/us/9/george-luria-v-united-states

Excerpts from the 1913, Luria case, referenced previously:

“Citizenship is membership in a political society, and implies a duty of allegiance on the part of the member and a duty of protection on the part of the society. These are reciprocal obligations, one being a compensation for the other."

"These requirements plainly contemplated that the applicant, if admitted, should be a citizen in fact as well as in name,—that he should assume and bear the obligations and duties of that status as well as enjoy its rights and privileges. In other words, it was contemplated that his admission should be mutually beneficial to the government and himself, the proof in respect of his established residence, moral character, and attachment to the principles of the Constitution being exacted because of what they promised for the future, rather than for what they told of the past.”

I shall now descend from my soapbox and wait for your rebuttals and objections.
 
With another post of more than 1000 words, BigJoe5 continues his quest for the career record of most words posted on immigration.com!
 
With another post of more than 1000 words, BigJoe5 continues his quest for the career record of most words posted on immigration.com!

But what do you think of the topic and substance of the post? All kidding aside, please offer an opinion, even if you genuinely disagree, I want to hear your take on the subject matter, you have a lot of good posts.
 
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