Harassment and abusive behavior during the citizenship interview

sanjoseaug20

Registered Users (C)
#41
The first thing you have to worry about is whether you be denied. If the IO did not recommend you for approval, the chances of denial are non-trivial. More than the complaint, you should start collating data for an appeal, and GungaDin has asked a lot of good questions about that. Search for a person named ASOROCK at these forums, he went through a similar situation and was able to win an appeal against CIS. His last thread here http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?p=2137783, but he has many other posts about the process he went through. Check them out.

Even if you want to focus on the complaint, sure. I would again suggest sit down and transcribe all the issues you had / felt with the officer. What I see is in your second post is a re-iteration of 4 issues
#1. cellphone - sounds like an issue. Unless he lies, he can not challenge it easily.
#2. why do I come to the building - definitely an issue, Unless he lies, he can not challenge it easily.
#3. the sense of shouting - this is subjective,
#4. finally asking you to leave - this also is subjective ... being in the building 5 minutes, or even 30 seconds beyond interview - if he does not know the context - he can remind you to leave. Tone/Voice level - in this case can be explained).

Overall the list of issues does not sound too big. However, I know you have your perspective, and maybe there are/were more issues than I listed ... maybe 8 instances of shouting.

Last, I know I am not sounding sympathetic, but replying to each person's comment will not help much, but jotting down a good transcript will. You do not need to share all the issues here (or you can) ... but do take the time.
 

Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#42
The first thing you have to worry about is whether you be denied. If the IO did not recommend you for approval, the chances of denial are non-trivial. More than the complaint, you should start collating data for an appeal.
The OP didn't provide any details to suggest that her case has a greater chance for denial. Until she provides her case details, suggesting she should worry whether she was denied or start collecting data for an appeal is prematue.
 

Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#43
Summing up, please suggest me what I should do?

What are the possible responses from USCIS in this kind of situation?
Contact USCIS at the address previously provided to register your complaint. You should at the very least expect a response that they will handle or investigate your complaint.
 

sanjoseaug20

Registered Users (C)
#44
The OP didn't provide any details to suggest that her case has a greater chance for denial. Until she provides her case details, suggesting she should worry whether she was denied or start collecting data for an appeal is prematue.
Sure. However, I see 2 issues.
#1. A hostile interview followed by "we will tell you later". It is not the same as a friendly / professional interview followed by "we will tell you later".
#2. OP has responded but not provided any more details than the first post. This makes me think there is more, but I was born a suspicious man.

Yes she could just be so aggrieved to talk about her interview as it pertains to scrutinizing her application ... Let's see.
 

Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#45
Sure. However, I see 2 issues.
#1. A hostile interview followed by "we will tell you later". It is not the same as a friendly / professional interview followed by "we will tell you later".
.
An IO's tone of voice or attitude has no bearing on their final decision. It still has to be approved by a supervisor.

#2. OP has responded but not provided any more details than the first post. This makes me think there is more, but I was born a suspicious man.

.
True, but OP was reporting on the IO's behaviour, not about whether she thinks the IO will deny her case based on his attitude.
 

Orleans

Registered Users (C)
#46
We have encountered 'imperfect' behaviors/treatments at the hands of the immigration agents a few times in the last 15 years. Either they are trained that way or
we encountered them on their imperfect days in their offices. Either way, we always got our applications accepted so no hard feelings whatsoever.
 

GungaDin

Registered Users (C)
#47
The OP didn't provide any details to suggest that her case has a greater chance for denial. Until she provides her case details, suggesting she should worry whether she was denied or start collecting data for an appeal is prematue.
I agree. Lets wait to see if we get more details.
However, I do wonder if OP has spent a lot of time in India lately, because when the IO told her 'Go Home' she wondered whether that meant 'Go Home To India' (not something someone would assume unless the IO had made some comment during the interview about her home really being India not the US).
But, this is idle speculation on my part, so lets wait until we hear back from the OP.
 

Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#48
(not something someone would assume unless the IO had made some comment during the interview about her home really being India not the US).
.
It's very easy for an immigrant to assume this without having travelled back to their home country since many immigrants still associate and have pride in their home country without needing to visit it.
 

kruz_patz

Registered Users (C)
#50
I am very sorry for not replying so far. I was not in a mood to remember what all happened. So, could not respond till now.

First of all, many many thanks to all of you
"JPBoston, Bobsmyth, ganjik, GungaDin, nkm-oct23, Mufuruki2, toneto, DreamUSA, sanjoseaug20, dr_rks, Triple Citizen, TheRealCanadian, kruz_patz"
for responding to my posting.

Thanks especially JPBoston, Bobsmyth, ganjik, sanjoseaug20 and GungaDin for spending lot of time and effort in giving detailed responses.
I highly appreciate it. My apologies in case I missed some name.


Let me please add something from my side now.
I never faced any problems in communicating with people in this country.
And I was not in an apprehensive and oversessitive situation when I went for the interview.
I was pretty relaxed because there was nothing to worry since I have all possible documents and also prepared for the civics test pretty well.
It was the IO who practically shouted and made me feel bad.

My reply to one of ganjik's statements:

I am not sure how you concluded that I was under pressure and so I reacted that way. I am sorry to say that was not case and I was not under pressure because I believed that I had everything that is needed for the interview. The IO told in a shouting and frusrating voice that "he feels sorry everytime he comes to this building". I am at loss to understand that he would say something like this to me thinking about the building or meeting his ex-wife if he had met her in the building. I do not think he tells something like that to an interviewee whom he met first time and that too for a few minutes only. I think he was clearly implying that towards me and other people like me who were in
similar situation.

This happened in San Francisco office.

Also in reply to ganjik's question - " I am sorry. But I didnt exactly understand what the harassment or abuse was about? "
Did he shout on you?

My answer: Yes - he shouted.

Also can someone please reply to the question posted by dr_rks - "Are these interviews video recorded ? They do so in embassies." I also have the same doubt and forgot to pose this question before.

Someone is saying that my comment about the IO's condescending behavior is subjective.
Please note that it need not be the case.

Dealing with INS/USCIS is not easy quite a few times. Many of us are willing to put up with extreme delays, arbitrariness and mishandling of the cases and wait with enoromous patience. US citizenship interview is something where quite of us are willing to tolerate lot of rubbish as we are in vulnerable situation and it is not a fair game. We are at the losing end with limited defences in such situations.


At least I believe that way and I would not have posted in this forum if it was not clearly demeaning and abusive. I did not expect some kind of friendly customer service and in fact was ready for some hard questions. But what happened was beyond normal and sensible limit. We thought of asking for USCIS duty manager and complaining about the situation immediately come what may but left the building within 5 minutes after the interview thinking we should not act in haste in such situations.

You know the officer shouted from around 50 feet asking me to go home just after 2 minutes after my interview. Somebody commented in this forum saying that IO must have meant that I was sitting there expecting some more process. Please tell me if 2 minutes were too much time sitting there. My husband was there and I would at least talk to him for a minute after the interview about what happened and also need to check if I have all the documents properly with me and needs such as going to rest room.


Just for the latitude of thinking as one of you had given the IO all the benefit of doubt - when he told me to go home - how do you know he was not telling me to go to India.
Please note I did not make this allegation originally nor do I mean even now. But just want to mention that statements can be stretched and tweaked in any direction.

Also someone if the forum suggested that I was subjective. Please see the below scenario.

The first thing the IO told me was to turn the cell phone off.
I replied saying I do not have cell phone with me.
He raised the voice and again he told me to turn cell phone off.


In the above scenario, whose mind was in subjective frame.
I did not even carry cell phone into the building, forget turning it off.
We left in the car itself.
But the IO assumes that I have a cell phone which was on.
Who was subjective?

The following were ticked in the form N-652, Naturalization Interview Results, that was given to me.

* You passed the tests of English and U.S. history and government.
* USCIS will send you a written decision about your application.

Again many thanks to all of you and especially JPBoston and Bobsmyth for trying to understand my situation. Also thanks ganjik for different perspective.

Summing up, please suggest me what I should do?

What are the possible responses from USCIS in this kind of situation?

Thanks and best regards,

CA-person
OK NOW, after reading you post, here's what I have to say.

I know you must be relaxed by now a bit but still having aftershocks of what happened as it comes around eyes.............but what's your focus today is....YOUR CITIZENSHIP ....
let's put this issue aside for a while, and I know you wana know what USCIS will do next. Until you get that decision letter in your hand, you are just clue less. Meanwhile write down your experience in a letter format...........read it and format it until you feel ... some one can get the whole idea in a one read.....have your hushand read it and edit it many times....(this will be helpful to present it to IO or a lawyer, if they ask for it) -- since it's very fresh you can write everything without forgetting things/incidents word to word.

So just wait right now.................see what's the decision is........whether you get oath letter..............or denial.
If you get oath letter............finish your oath.......get your citizenship certificate.................go with your spouse on a vacation and celebrate the freedom of living in USA for lifetime.
But after you get citizen, don't sit..but.....act ......... and do complain to USCIS about that fellow........but in fully professional manner...............I don't think you should leave him in this state.....which ofcourse is not a good behaviour. No matter what ... HE IS NOT YOUR DAD OR MOM.....who have rights to say in high tone...............so do act...but conserve your citizenship first........that should be your first focus...................

But, if you get denial, (which i doubt), approach to USCIS and talk to an immigration officer by taking infopass. See what IO has to say on this. Also at that time give all details of the issue of your's very calmly. Try to find the reason why you got denial ? If things not gonna work out, than I would suggest you take an advise of a good lawyer, ask about filing an appeal against their decision ..... see what he/she has to say........and decide later of what to do next ...... based on your true instincts.........

But frankly you should act ..... after once you get citizenship ... clears oath...gets certificate in hand......
this preachers are not there to insult us......no one can insult anyone.....UNLESS if the very first conversation becomes rude from our side......in that case thing takes diff. turn...but over here he didn't even listen to you or neither give you a chance to speak...........
wow... i wrote too much.....but just emptying the anger of getting treated by racists, conservatives and uneducated......
do act !!! :)
 
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Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#51
OK NOW, after reading you post, here's what I have to say.
But after you get citizen, don't sit..but.....act ......... and do complain to USCIS about that fellow........but in fully professional manner...............I don't think you should leave him in this state.....which ofcourse is not a good behaviour. No matter what ... HE IS NOT YOUR DAD OR MOM.....who have rights to say in high tone...............so do act...but conserve your citizenship first........that should be your first focus...................

But frankly you should act ..... after once you get citizenship ... clears oath...gets certificate in hand......
Are you suggesting the OP not report the issue now in fears of possible reprisals? Why wait until after citizenship to report bad behaviour?
 

kruz_patz

Registered Users (C)
#52
Are you suggesting the OP not report the issue now in fears of possible reprisals? Why wait until after citizenship to report bad behaviour?
You want to get citizenship and that is the first motive......you don't want to put your case in a pending/freeze mode .... my point is to take an action with caution......she is already waiting to hear about decision on her case...............and in this situation you don't want to get it delayed..............so play with fire but with caution....that's all......safe your side first......

rahi baat complain ki.......than that IO should definately be complained.....now it's upto OP.
 

CA-person

Registered Users (C)
#53
Thanks again for your responses and your suggestions.
Appreciate your time and input.

My husband has not applied for citizenship.
I went three times in the last 5 years to India.
I never stayed for 6 months.
The maximum I stayed one time was 3 months.
The other two times less than that.
My husband is still in the same job thru which he got his greencard.
Also 5 years were totally completed when I attended the interview since I got the GC.
Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks and best regards, CA-person
 

Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#54
You want to get citizenship and that is the first motive......you don't want to put your case in a pending/freeze mode .... my point is to take an action with caution......she is already waiting to hear about decision on her case...............and in this situation you don't want to get it delayed..............so play with fire but with caution....that's all......safe your side first......

rahi baat complain ki.......than that IO should definately be complained.....now it's upto OP.
Filing a complaint would not delay processing of your naturalization case or put in on hold. The complaint process is completely independent of the adjudication process.
 

Bobsmyth

Volunteer Moderator
#55
Thanks again for your responses and your suggestions.
Appreciate your time and input.

My husband has not applied for citizenship.
I went three times in the last 5 years to India.
I never stayed for 6 months.
The maximum I stayed one time was 3 months.
The other two times less than that.
My husband is still in the same job thru which he got his greencard.
Also 5 years were totally completed when I attended the interview since I got the GC.
Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks and best regards, CA-person
I don't see anything in your case details that would raise alarms. Did you obtain GC via same husband or were you married before? Sounds to me that the IO was being a jerk.
 

GungaDin

Registered Users (C)
#56
Thanks again for your responses and your suggestions.
Appreciate your time and input.

My husband has not applied for citizenship.
I went three times in the last 5 years to India.
I never stayed for 6 months.
The maximum I stayed one time was 3 months.
The other two times less than that.
My husband is still in the same job thru which he got his greencard.
Also 5 years were totally completed when I attended the interview since I got the GC.
Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks and best regards, CA-person
You should be fine. If you don't get your approval letter within 4 weeks, make an InfoPass.
 

CaliGC

Registered Users (C)
#57
File a complaint, don't wait for the outcome.

Friends,

If I were the CA-Person I would file a complaint now and without any delay. I justify it this way....

1. Assume your case is approved: No issues and good for you. You have still have taken the right action to complain. Also, this case is a day old and I don't think it would be kept pending without making a decision either way.

2. If the case is denied: It would be at least 2-4 weeks to get to know the outcome. Now you start complaining .... and if I were the person reviewing this complaint (would be a colleague or a supervisor of the interviewing officer) would assume since the case has been denied the applicant wants to damage the reputation of the department by alleging on a well performing officer.

Generally, I'm a kind of person who would not take trash from anyone. As recommended by some users, make a neat document get it reviewed and file a complaint... I'm sure it would be at least a week from now and your case will not be kept undecided until then thought you don't know the outcome.

Note: The above comments are purely my point of view. Please exercise with caution.
 

GungaDin

Registered Users (C)
#58
Friends,

If I were the CA-Person I would file a complaint now and without any delay. I justify it this way....

1. Assume your case is approved: No issues and good for you. You have still have taken the right action to complain. Also, this case is a day old and I don't think it would be kept pending without making a decision either way.

2. If the case is denied: It would be at least 2-4 weeks to get to know the outcome. Now you start complaining .... and if I were the person reviewing this complaint (would be a colleague or a supervisor of the interviewing officer) would assume since the case has been denied the applicant wants to damage the reputation of the department by alleging on a well performing officer.

Generally, I'm a kind of person who would not take trash from anyone. As recommended by some users, make a neat document get it reviewed and file a complaint... I'm sure it would be at least a week from now and your case will not be kept undecided until then thought you don't know the outcome.

Note: The above comments are purely my point of view. Please exercise with caution.
When USCIS denies a citizenship application, it has to be based on a legal reason - not on a whim.
From what the OP has told us, there is no such reason that could cause the application to be denied. (5 yr case, no issues with physical presence or continuous residence).

A complaint placed after the OP has already become a citizen has much more weight than one placed now. (... I've tried to let this go, but the IO was so rude that even after several weeks I feel compelled to bring his behavior to your attention... ).

Optimally, OP should have contacted a supervisor immediately (you can ask for one even during the interview if the IO is being unreasonable), but that is water under the bridge now.
 

sanjoseaug20

Registered Users (C)
#59
My husband has not applied for citizenship.
I went three times in the last 5 years to India.
I never stayed for 6 months.
The maximum I stayed one time was 3 months.
The other two times less than that.
My husband is still in the same job thru which he got his greencard.
Also 5 years were totally completed when I attended the interview since I got the GC.
Did the IO question any part of your application - that is - spend more than 1 minute discussing that issue? Did he say why he can not recommend for approval?

The other part about complaint - do it independent of the discussion re approval. Whenever you have it ready - dispatch it.
 

JPBoston

Registered Users (C)
#60
I don't see anything in your case details that would raise alarms. Did you obtain GC via same husband or were you married before? Sounds to me that the IO was being a jerk.
I agree, Bobsmyth. I think this fits in with the pattern of behavior this IO was exhibiting. It's almost like he purposely didn't approve it just to delay things even though there was no real reason not to approve it. If this was the case, this IO is one sadistic @ssh*le.
 
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