Going back to India

reply

corruption (10K plate dinners and enron etcccc) in USA is at high levels .... In India it is at all levels and it affects one and all.

For example if you want a gas connection or telephone connection you have to bribe at all levels. Hurdles which are placed before you miraculously disappear after greasing of palms.

Sorry, I did not make myself clear about the reasons for living here in USA. One factor alone is not the reason for my being here.

Decisions are always made looking at the pros, cons and interesting factors.

On the whole after carefull review of all factors considered I can say that Life is much much better here in the USA as compared to India or Gulf or East Africa.
 
Re: reply

Originally posted by rsrgc
corruption (10K plate dinners and enron etcccc) in USA is at high levels .... In India it is at all levels and it affects one and all.

For example if you want a gas connection or telephone connection you have to bribe at all levels. Hurdles which are placed before you miraculously disappear after greasing of palms.

Sorry, I did not make myself clear about the reasons for living here in USA. One factor alone is not the reason for my being here.

Decisions are always made looking at the pros, cons and interesting factors.

On the whole after carefull review of all factors considered I can say that Life is much much better here in the USA as compared to India or Gulf or East Africa.
Click to expand...

Could not agree with u more on ur last statement. Life is much better in US than India or Gulf or any place else.

I disagree that corruptuion in US does not affect you in ur day to day life. The corporations who pay these huge sums of money for political fund-raisers get the money back on terms of tax subsidies (which is funded by your and mine tax dollars). Ask the employees of enron/worldcom/halliburton etc. whether corruption has affected their daily life or not. Its just that the polititians make the laws that codify that corruption. Tell me, why would any organization pay millions of dollars to political parties if not for favourable policies. Companies can incorporate in foreign contries to save taxes, but can a US citizen do that?? Does that not affect u in day to day life, where u have to pay higher amount in taxes, cause a company is exploiting a loophole (which no politician will close) and not contributing to the revenue base.

What you say is present only in the metropolitian areas, try going to smaller towns and see the excellent quality service that u get!!
 
This is for RSRGC

rsrgc,

I think a bunch of people already dragged out the respect of India in this thread. And you started the flame again ?

<* I have visited Bombay just recently. I have resided in 4 countries in my life. *>

what an impressive list ? Hey, I heard someone discovered new planets out there, you should try them out!
Let us know the life out there.

<* Here In USA we are able to do so many things which are not possible in India. Also the life in Bombay has become worse due to the
increase in population and the strain on the city services. Imagine that pollution is so much that even stainless steel utensils get rusted there. *>

What kind of things do you do ?? Flipping more channels on the TV or renting more DVDs from the desi shops ?
May be the only place you lived around was in the slums of Bombay. You should've visited different parts of the
country before giving your great comment about that country. I bet you did not even get a job anywhere else.

<* Also within a few hours of cleaning you will find a thin layer of dust on the furniture. *>

You think everywhere else on the earth things are clean ?? you moron !

<* You have to really experience the slums of Bombay to understand the mess that Bombay is. *>

I think you have shown us enough, why to experience slums ?
Personally, I respect any country. Whether it is India or US.
Just to make a point, have you ever been to Bronx ?

<* People have all talked about corruption etc etc .... This is common in India. *>

AYEEEEEEEEEE !!! now we know.

<* After driving on the freeways in Los Angeles I have to say that it would be very difficult for me to live in India. *>

May be you should drive around more in the other cities before saying this! I could've been rude. Freeways in LA ?? huh!

<* Also if you compare the food handling in US to the food handling in a restaraunt in India....... words fail me. *>

What Kaka Hotel do you used to eat in, you pig head ? Do you read news ??
Where/When ever you eat outside, you have no idea what goes into your mouth.
Just to give you more appetite:

http://home.netscape.com/inserts/news/2.html

You say words fail you ?? ha! and then another HA!

<* Yes... There is a difference in culture in USA and the Indian culture... but this is the life here..... 200 million ppl here and it is different everywhere....
differences are present even in different parts of India. *>

Just curious to know what difference do you see within India ? May be we can talk about the world later.
I wonder you know the definition of culture.

<* In Assam there is a practice in rural area for one man to get married to all girls in the house and he does nothing , no work at all.. The ladies cook, clean, go for jobs, earn money etc etc.. The man just chats with his friends, smokes all day and lazes about. *>

Have you been to Assam ?? Where did you get this news from ?
Are you regualr to CNN or 60mins ?
Just FYI, you can see this kinda guys everywhere, may be he wouldn't get to marry many girls unless he is muslim.
May be you should do more research on this, you are a good fit.

<* Who are we to judge the ppl in Assam as to if this is right or wrong ? *>

FINALLY! you got the wisdom tooth! Who the F* are you to judge India on the basis of your intelligence ?

<* So I encourage ppl in this discussion not to talk about US morals and the way of life here. *>

You should also encourage yourself and the people not to trash talk about a country where you have no idea
except your house and a slum around it.

<* USA is the land of opportunity ..... I am very happy to be a part of the USA *>

Yes, you are one of the lucky ones. Be happy about it. Nothing there to be proud of!

Well, I had a hectic day and wanted to take on someone. I found the great rsrgc!

thx
 
Introspection

As I have said in my last post it doesn't matter where you are leaving but its important how you are leaving.

In life money is important but do you think that makes your life happy ?

Bombay is dirty , there is lot of pollution , there is corruption etc.etc. all this is there but who is responsible for that ?

I think we all are smart enough to know the answer
 
to AmericanWannabe

<* I have a question about the corruption in India and pardon me if I sound ignorant.
India is a democracy unlike my home country which is one party dictatorship. So why do not the Indians simply vote corrupt officials out? *>

Unfortunately, we don't have 'Recall' System in India. Whoever gets elected from a public mandate, they get to stay there until their term ends.
Only a political party high-command can force them to resign from a public office. It doesn't happen that often because, who wants to admit their party people are involved in a mess ?

Whenever someone is corrupted, they are not involved directly, even if they are, no one has evidence against them. They are so poweful, even if they get caught, it is very easy for them to come out. They are gooood.

We have anticorruption squads (ACB) who are after the government employees. We have the system for elected political leaders. But, who can prove them guilty ?

Please, don't think all the political leaders are corrupt, there are a few good people out there. Remember, to survive in the political scene of India, one has to get dirty once in a while.

I am glad, atleast you tried to admit your ignorance before asking this question, I would do the same if I want to know about your home country. Here in this forum we have a bunch of idiots from India who has no idea about their country but still acts as if they know everything.

If I were from a different country, I would get a feeling that India is a screwed up country once I read through the thread. Which is not TRUE.

I wish I could beat the crap out of some of my fellow Indians.
 
>If I were from a different country, I would get a feeling that >India is a screwed up country once I read through the thread. >Which is not TRUE.

I just saw an Indian movie about a doctor's younger
brother in love with a police chief's daughter. The
police chief dislike the boy and had him rarrested
and gave him a good beating. The movie
made it look like such was common phenomenon
rather than exceptions. I know that
it was stupid to understand a country by watching
its movies.

>I wish I could beat the crap out of some of my fellow Indians.

No such need. That means India at least have some tolerance
for criticism.
 
reply

I guess some people would rather stick their head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend the problem does not exist.

Which country does not have a problem ?

India is my country - I love India but yes we do have problems (a lot of them)

Main problem is Family planning - we are scheduled to overtake China in Population in 2020

And also if you look at the per capita income that is way way low.

Also you should look at the amount of corruption problems in India.


Just because I recognize the problems does not mean I love India less - Even the president of India Mr. Abdul Kalaam talks about the problem of India.


Yes, given a choice I would rather stay here in USA and become a Citizen of USA.

And so would millions and millions of Indians if they would be given a chance.

And so would a majority of silent readers who read this message
 
Re: reply

Originally posted by rsrgc
I guess some people would rather stick their head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend the problem does not exist.

Which country does not have a problem ?

India is my country - I love India but yes we do have problems (a lot of them)

Main problem is Family planning - we are scheduled to overtake China in Population in 2020

And also if you look at the per capita income that is way way low.

Also you should look at the amount of corruption problems in India.


Just because I recognize the problems does not mean I love India less - Even the president of India Mr. Abdul Kalaam talks about the problem of India.


Yes, given a choice I would rather stay here in USA and become a Citizen of USA.

And so would millions and millions of Indians if they would be given a chance.

And so would a majority of silent readers who read this message
Click to expand...

Amazing!!!! If you love your country so much, what have you done to solve the problem? You sit here and say India is corrupt, but if you visit India, do you not pay off the customs to sneak something past.
It is very very easy to say that Oh! I Love my country!!. What is difficult to prove it. You say Family planning is the problem in India, well, have you tried to educate even one person that one should have less children.

Dont take this personally. Whatever choices you make are yours, but to berate one's country and saying that it is patriotism is wrong. Pointing out mistakes is easy, making efforts to correct that mistake is the tough nut.

If you have made efforts, Kudos to you. If you have not made efforts, pointing out problems will never solve the problem (remember that)
 
reply

Well - I had a chance to Improve my life and I took this opportunity and now am a PR.

Me - First ,

Many people will not say it aloud and in print but these are my priorities

A - Myself
B - My Family
C - My Company
D - My new Adopted Nation (USA)
E - My Ex country (India) which I hope to leave and become a citizen of USA !!!!!!!!


To all you guys who rave and rant - remember this , If you are so concerned about your country - then what are you doing here in this section called Life after the Green Card ????? Huh ???

Why did you become a PR and why are you living in the USA ????

You guys do not want to admit it - You too are here for the good things of life , and wish that you have the good fortune to continue on and on in the United States of America

Specially I ask you to look in your hearts and souls and consult your wife and kids and ask them - Do You really really want to go back to India and face the hurdles of life there ?????????
 
Just help your ex-country by buying more stuff made in
your ex-country (or buy less to protest corruption there
:)). Under the same conditions pick your ex-country
made products first.
 
Priority list!

To rsrgc:

> Me - First ,

Good for you

> Many people will not say it aloud and in print but these are my > priorities

Great!


> A - Myself
> B - My Family
> C - My Company
> D - My new Adopted Nation (USA)
> E - My Ex country (India) which I hope to leave and become a citizen of USA !!!!!!!!

You are still not adopted yet!
You are just given permission by the US government to stay here and do your job and follow certain rules. In case tommorrow for some reasons whatsoever, they may even consider sending you back if you did not fulfill their conditions of residency.

Why is India in your priority list when you made it a fact that you do not like it!?


> To all you guys who rave and rant - remember this , If you are
> so concerned about your country - then what are you doing
> here in this section called Life after the Green Card ?????
> Huh ???

Because most people here have got their green card which does not imply that they should not be concerned about their country


> Why did you become a PR and why are you living in the USA ????

With H1-B you have limited choices, with a green card there are a few more choices particularly the job scene.

I hope you probably would have understood by now, most people here (including me) in this section are planning to make some money and return to India after a few years.


> You guys do not want to admit it - You too are here for the
> good things of life , and wish that you have the good fortune to > continue on and on in the United States of America

As someone said, one man's constant is another man's variable. You may feel happy in US, but there are many others who feel happy back in their country. There are people who I know were PR's and have gone back to India for good.


> Specially I ask you to look in your hearts and souls and consult > your wife and kids and ask them - Do You really really want to > go back to India and face the hurdles of life there ?????????

YES, YES, YES - I hope it is clear to you at least now. Not all think the way you think in your heart and soul.

Along with the hurdles of life there, there are a lot of good things and blessings of a country that is now a cultural/spiritual/beauty/IT superpower.

Cheers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
reply

Some of the people here are strictly in USA for the money and have got GC and intend to make money and go back to India.

Excellent - that is exactly what is Capitalism - Some where down the line your wife and kids will tell you - lets buy a house and live a better life and then you are hooked -

Life is all about that - Trying to live a better life and choices

'We make choices and look for opportunities'


We came here not because we fell in love with America, but we came here because we had an opportunity and decided to try it and to make our life better.

I do understand that there will be a percentage of people who will return back to India but hey just look at the percentage - it will be a very small number.

Every year they issue 60,000 green cards to people from India and the waiting list is on the increase.

I do know of many cases who have got their green cards but have gone back but they are just a handfull.

And you have a much higher percentage of people who live here and say 'Hey we are saving money and we shall go back some day' - But many many years down the line opinions change and the percentage reduces.

So , It is a free country - The individual can make his choice and do as he pleases - Right

Have fun guys, A four day weekend is coming
 
To JoeF

Just Curious!

JoeF
Senior Member

Registered: May 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3642

From May thru Nov 2002, you had an astonishing 3642 posts. That is almost 20 posts a day! Man, you really have some free time on hand. You must be just living on these kinds of forums I suppose (premise: you mentioned that you are an expert on usenet groups).

No offense buddy! Peace and chill out!
 
This discussion is unnecessary

I think this discussion is unnecessary because:
- Most of us are from India so we know what's life back home
- Most of us have lived in US long enough to understand what's life here.
- Most of us are intellegent enough to make an educated decision based on above 2 facts.
- No 3rd person can help you in getting to that decision. Only you and your family can decide based on your situation/liking.
- Do what makes you happy. Living in US and not being happy is as bad as living in india and not being happy. If you live in US and constantly think about india, you will never be happy. And if you go back to India and then constantly think about US, you will not be happy.
- When in US, live as american (good) live. There are good american families all around you. Their kids go to ivy league colleges, are smart and they have a strong family ties. Just look around. Similerly, there are families in India where kids are "good for nothing"/Brotheres fight to death/elders are neglected. It all depends on how you raise your kids. Here or in India.
- When in India, live as Indians live. Don't be bothered by long lines, electricity shortages etc. Thats part of life in India.
- Think what made you come to US in the first place. If those factors are still true, stay here, else go back. We are in a better position than most americans. We have an alternative. Where would americans go if they are not happy here/lost their jobs/lost their life savings. So be greatful of this unique situation of yours and be happy where ever you are.


IMHO
 
reply

I read the article - Return of the Pilgrim by Kavi Arya.

Yes - the decision to return or stay in the USA is an individual decision.

The author also writes about corruption and many other negative and positive things about India - He is realistic and talks about people going back to India and returning to USA also.

Bottom Line
---------------
The percentage of people going back to India out of choice is very low and I would not do this out of choice.
 
anandun said:
Priya,

You may get some insight on this topic if you read an article called "My America" by RK Narayan (famous Indian author) on this topic.

I have attached it here for all to read and reflect.

Essentially, the decision of where to stay is based on what makes you happy.

Having a comfortable hassle-free life with all material comforts makes you happy? America is great for that.

Having a socially and spiritually enriching life with a chance for kids to develop higher values makes you happy? Pack up and head for India.

Don't allow small things like getting a ration card/telephone connection etc be a factor in this decision. You need to have a broader outlook on what it is that you want out of life to make this decision.

Good Luck!
Click to expand...


That's what you think about "higher values". I know from personal experience since my parents took me back there to instill these "higher values".

Let's be honest with ourselves here. Do you really think India is that white washed? You must be joking. In India every single vice there is in the US is there and oddly enough is it encouraged there to do everything possible under the sun in college life.

At least in the US you will find people who are "above the influence" so to speak. There are people here who are free to choose not to (for example0 have sex before marriage or drink or do drugs or whatever you don't want them to do. In India the level of peer pressure is great that everyone does everything. People don't know how to think for themselves. They like to ape America based on what they see in the movies, but they don't realize how in reality the US is actually a conservative country in many respects.

They really go overboard over there with these days with their behaviors.

In the bargain, life in India at least before was so lazy that there is no sense of timeliness or work ethic (at least that is changing these days). I think you can potentially do a lot of harm in subjecting children to a MAJOR adjustment and putting them in a society where there is utter lack of guidance. The only things that motivates most native Indians to succeed is future financial growth. But coming from here you will put your kids in the lazy "high-society' crowd the basic tenets of which apply now to the middle class as well.

Many Indian parents I feel are clueless on how to raise children, they only know two things: threats and beatings and how to put their kids in expensive schools. They think that by putting their kids in an expensive school they will grow up with good qualities.

What they fail to understand is that no amount of money to put your kids in the most prestigious schools (which also tend to pride themselves on beating their students for discipline) will replace what is a FULL TIME JOB - that is raising your kids. You can even in this country put your kids in a $40,000 a year private school and it is not the solution. The parents have to take responsibility for teaching their kids: ethics, values, morals, work ethic. They should teach first by example and then by guidance.

This applies here or in India. So you will not automatically have your kids subscribe to "higher values" by taking them to India. THIS IS THE FIRST THING MISGUIDED INDIAN PARENTS SHOULD LEARN. Your children will get higher values anywhere, if you teach it to them. If you are actively involved in what happens in their schools and in their lives. If you don't judge them based on their responses to the issues they have in their lives. You must guide them and always explain why it is better to do something rather than order them. If you cannot devote the time to do that, then please spare the world your progeny. I hate to be so cut and dry about it, but it is the truth.

In addition, as my parents learned by rude awakening, India today is not the little dream world they expected from their experiences from their youth. The population has ballooned while infrastructure is a joke. The traffic is worse than any US city.

Also prices are not the 10-15 rupees you paid for lunch years ago. Things are expensive. Maintain a lifestyle that you were accustomed to in the US will cost MORE (read it again: MORE) in India than it does in the US.

You will argue that food costs nothing there. But what you don't realize is that you will go there and see everyone with their Plasmas TVs and nice cars and beautiful kitchens - ALL OF WHICH COSTS 20-100% more in India than it does in the US. So if you want to preserve you lifestyle you better save a lot more money than you think you need.

Think about the fact that gasoline costs 4 times as much there than here. Think about what effect that has on transportation, your fuel bill, your airline tickets etc.

Many Indians dream of India as some kind of fantasyland of their youth and they think of a sudden with all this USD currency they will live well over there. Think again. India is pricey. India is not the solution to all your problems.

I'm not saying the US is either, but you must think of these things with some real critical analysis: another thing the Indian educational system is very poor at teaching. Which is why you people who excel at their fields but fail to make the most basic critical analyzes of anything they read or hear about. Indian education is excellent right up to high school or 12th standard, but after that the US educational system is miles ahead.

Sorry if I came off as too harsh, but I this is a topic I know very well about. Living is in India is not like vacationing in India. I too go every year and LOVE my time there. But living there is a whole other ball game.
 
rsrgc said:
I guess some people would rather stick their head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend the problem does not exist.

Which country does not have a problem ?

India is my country - I love India but yes we do have problems (a lot of them)

Main problem is Family planning - we are scheduled to overtake China in Population in 2020

And also if you look at the per capita income that is way way low.

Also you should look at the amount of corruption problems in India.


Just because I recognize the problems does not mean I love India less - Even the president of India Mr. Abdul Kalaam talks about the problem of India.


Yes, given a choice I would rather stay here in USA and become a Citizen of USA.

And so would millions and millions of Indians if they would be given a chance.

And so would a majority of silent readers who read this message
Click to expand...



When I lived there, I spent some time working with some NGOs on some social issues in India.

If you think Jerry Springer is bad, just wait until you hear some of the things that go on in India on a regular basis.

At least in the US, while it may be in poor taste, such social issues are wide out in the open. At least it encourages discussion of these problems in hopes of finding solutions.

In India everything is under the table. child molestation, female infanticide, sati, dowry, spousal abuse, genital mutilation, child trafficking, slavery; everything is there in India and it is so well hidden that nobody can even talk about it to help stop it.

At least I've noticed that every Indian themed movie that hits US shores brings up one aspect of things. "Monsoon Wedding" brings up incest/child molestation and "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" brought up child trafficking and genital mutilation.

If you ask many Indians, they are opposed to this because it portrays India in a poor light to the rest of the world. When will Indians ever accept their problems first and worry less about what others think? Indian people in general are so status conscious and all they seem to care about is what people think.

There's poverty in India and there are MANY social evils there, we need to learn to admit that first so we can make a change. Pretending it doesn't happen is a hallmark of Indian behavior. With that attitude it will keep on happening. The whole social structure there allows this to keep happening. If a wife is beaten it is considered shameful to come forth and admit it. Society blames the victim. What an OUTRAGE! If a woman should get divorced for no fault of her own because her tyrant of a husband beat her, she is rendered not marriageable. For no fault of her own. They will assume she justified the abuse and hence is not worthy of marriage. It's a terrible society where the perpetrators of social abuse keep getting away with abuse because society always blames the victim.

The worst people are those who claim it doesn't happen. It does happen and you admission that it happens in India is the first step towards making sure it stops happening.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top