Forget Green card, even H-1 renewal will be impossible

[Jackolantern]

There are many implications/ramifications if certain areas get tightened. Don't be so foolish to think that it won't eventually come over to you.

Well, I am not being so foolish. If the USCIS wants to tighten up things and I get kicked out as a result, then let them GO AHEAD AND DO IT. All I am asking is that if they do that, DO IT FAST. Other countries will take me if America doesn't want me. And if the US wants to keep me, LET ME KNOW FAST so I can fully set roots down here and go ahead and maximize my contribution to the economy. Instead, because of this uncertainty I am not buying a new car, not making improvements to my condo (which I almost didn't buy due to not having a GC, but eventually decided to buy once I got an EAD), and not making moves towards starting my own company or joining a startup.

And we all know that the "best and brightest" and "green card for a future job" is baloney. Even Congress acknowledges that to an extent, based on their actions including the portability provisions of AC21. Ultimately it is about the net gain to the US economy that is expected from employment-based immigration. I and most others (except groups like NumbersUSA) believe there is such a net gain; if you believe otherwise, fine.

However, even though EB immigration isn't only about the "best and brightest", the immigration system does drive away those who are indeed among the B&B in their field. Even if we allow them to skip labor certification, they still get put off by lengthy "name checks", and requirements such as having to get police certificates from every country they've lived in for six months if they want to do consular processing (not uncommon for an EB1 person who self-sponsors), which is an enormous task for somebody from Europe or the West Indies or Central America who may have lived in five or more countries ... especially since a "B&B" person is likely to be mobile in their studies and work.

So what happens is that the US immigration system keeps out most of the B&B and is only attractive to the lower tiers of immigrants. Even a second- or third-tier guy like me would not have started this process if I knew what was ahead of me from the start. The best and brightest will often be bright enough to stay out of this mess.

 

[OhNoo]

I agree with the motives of the bill...but the bill won't pass. Companies like Wipro/Infosys will lobby hard against the bill since they won't be able to place their people in US companies on projects.

Even Google today uses contractors because they can't find enough talented people to recruit as full-time employees.

What can be a possible compromise might be a limit per body-shopper and some credential validation of a body-shopper before he/she can start the body-shopping. Also, it would help if the H1-B limit is split into 2 parts...one for body-shoppers and one for US based companies recruiting for work in the compa ny itself.

I don't think any kind of bill related to H1-B is going to relieve the GC problem.

Wipro/Infosys/Satyam or other top 10 Indian companies can not lobby big as they are still a small player in corporate world. Again these companies’s business model is not resource placement. There employee can work on L1 visa. I believe non technologies companies who use subcontractors to get IT services need to lobby for it. Even big consulting companies require IT sub contractors and H1B visa holder are cheap to work with.

 

[Jackolantern]

Jack; you gotta put up or shut up. Enough people have already started to leave and decided to go through consular route once their numbers come up. Talk about leaving permanently because the country doesn't want me, etc., is pretty much empty rhetoric.

Moving internationally is a very costly thing if you have a lot more than two suitcases worth of stuff. I'm not going to just pack up leave like that. If I have to leave I'll deal with it, and if they are ultimately going to reject me I want them to do it sooner rather than later. But I am not going to get up and leave before my patience runs out. However, if you will give me $20,000 towards shipping and rebuying all my car and all other possessions in another country, I'll start packing tomorrow.

There is going to be close to 200,000 h-1b applications; and I am pretty sure everyone of them is quite aware what the greencard que is. Doesn't look like it is affecting their decision in coming here.

There is no problem with quantity; the problem is with declining quality. The best and brightest who have many options in their own country and other countries will want to stay out of this mess.

btw; your priority date is 2003. When did you originally come to USA?

I came in 1999. When I first came I wasn't really interested in a green card because I was wary of the trap it would get me into. My original plan was to live light, save some money, then return home or go to another country after 3-6 years of H1. Now I realize I should have stuck to that plan, but I am too far along this path to turn back yet. Still, I won't wait forever for a green card. Applications for other countries will start going out later this year and early next year if I don't have a GC by then.

 

[marlon2006]

UnitedNations, I thought your priority date was mid 2002; haven't you got your GC yet? Just curious.

Thanks for the info.

I've met a lot of people and their profile generally seems to be similar to your's. They only planned on staying a few years and moving back. They got late start to greencard process and lost many years in line.

These days; I don't see same mistake being made by people. Many of them file labor soon after entry into USA (company policy; retention mainly; would reverse if priority dates become current).

I don't call it a mistake but I did leave in 1996 and came back in 1999. i did explore the possibility of staying permanently back then but decided the wait was too long (had to stay with company for three years after greencard approval and would take 2 to 3 years to get the greencard approved. I wouldn't have been free and clear until I had stayed for 9 years at that time. Decided it wasn't worth it and never began the process. However; here I am came back again. Something to consider for people who are thinking of abandoning the process all together.

 

[marlon2006]

Oh, congrats! I was that nightmare was never going to end. But it is all gone, just few scars remain.

JUNE 2002.

It has been approved.

I was discussing my earlier stay (1993 to 1996); never went for the greencard at that point. I came back in 1999.

 

[maxblacks]

curious george

Thanks for the info.

I've met a lot of people and their profile generally seems to be similar to your's. They only planned on staying a few years and moving back. They got late start to greencard process and lost many years in line.

These days; I don't see same mistake being made by people. Many of them file labor soon after entry into USA (company policy; retention mainly; would reverse if priority dates become current).

I don't call it a mistake but I did leave in 1996 and came back in 1999. i did explore the possibility of staying permanently back then but decided the wait was too long (had to stay with company for three years after greencard approval and would take 2 to 3 years to get the greencard approved. I wouldn't have been free and clear until I had stayed for 9 years at that time. Decided it wasn't worth it and never began the process. However; here I am came back again. Something to consider for people who are thinking of abandoning the process all together.

just curious u r from which country ? ur posts are informative and detailed

 

[hopeofgc]

Country of birth: Pakistan (left when I was five years old); English only; no hindi, no punjabi, no urdu, nothing but english. Want to learn Telugu (90% of people I know through immigration are from Andhra).

Lived in Canada most of my life.

Permanent resident of : USA, Australia, New Zealand, Guyana (through wife)
Citizen of: Canada (through natrualization in 1977) and by birth via Pakistan.

You have got PR for 4 countries. Cool. I never knew that one could become permanent resident of more than 1 country. So, now you got Green card for US, so which country next?

 

[no_more_anger]

> Wipro/Infosys/Satyam or other top 10 Indian companies can not lobby big
> as
> they are still a small player in corporate world. Again these companies’s
> business model is not resource placement. There employee can work on L1
> visa.

Their employees cannot work on L1 visa. L1 requires minimum 1-year experience in home-country. These employers hire people based on project availability and then send them off to the US. Why else do u think that the big-wigs in India have applied for around 20K H1-B visas each ? If L1 was simple, then these guys wouldn't care much. Maybe the Indian companies won't get affected much, as you point out...but that's left to be seen.

The model of services companies is that - Indian company X finds a project in US company Y and sends some of it's employees to work for a while with company Y to deliver the project. I'm not sure if L1 visa allows you to do consulting of this type. And if they (immigration dept) stop such consulting on H1-B, then these companies will have to look for other loopholes.

 

[chanduv23]

UN,
I switched to consulting after a layoff and have been always sticking to the consulting company though I do get some healthy job offers to join FT jobs (including my current client).
My reason for moving to consulting was simple, no hasstles about layoffs and look for a high paying contract job near to where my wife works so that we stay together. I am currently on 7th year h1b and already got my 3 year extension based on approved 140 through a consulting company (Purely bodyshopping with 100 employees like me experienced and high paying contracts)
This situation seems to be similar to a lot of Doctors, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers who actually have their H1b through a consulting company that deals with a bunch of employers who do not want to go throughthe visa hasstle.

If this bill becomes a law, though it is aimed at IT outsourcing companies, it will adversely affect us. Now, I am not worried about this situation because if I get affected, I will look for alternatives or packup.

But my only question is, what happens to all the existing H1b persons (consultants on client projects) when this bill is passed? Will there be a time period where they have to retreat from their current jobs? or will this become a issue when they actually go in for their next extension?

 

[gc_retrogress]

Not even Pres of US knows whether this becomes a law or not. UN cannot say for sure I guess. So first let it become a law. There have been numerous counter H1, green card bills created in the past but they were always floored.

So take it easy, do not get worked up uncessarily, if it does becomes a law, only future H1 extensions might be a problem, consulting is bread and butter of US, there are many companies that will be effected, not just you. So lot of companies are going to lobby against it.

UN,
I switched to consulting after a layoff and have been always sticking to the consulting company though I do get some healthy job offers to join FT jobs (including my current client).
My reason for moving to consulting was simple, no hasstles about layoffs and look for a high paying contract job near to where my wife works so that we stay together. I am currently on 7th year h1b and already got my 3 year extension based on approved 140 through a consulting company (Purely bodyshopping with 100 employees like me experienced and high paying contracts)
This situation seems to be similar to a lot of Doctors, mechanical engineers, chemical engineers who actually have their H1b through a consulting company that deals with a bunch of employers who do not want to go throughthe visa hasstle.

If this bill becomes a law, though it is aimed at IT outsourcing companies, it will adversely affect us. Now, I am not worried about this situation because if I get affected, I will look for alternatives or packup.

But my only question is, what happens to all the existing H1b persons (consultants on client projects) when this bill is passed? Will there be a time period where they have to retreat from their current jobs? or will this become a issue when they actually go in for their next extension?

 

[khodalmd]

UN,

I am just wondering; Pakistan recognize duel citizenship? Are you duel citizen of Pakistan and Canada?

Country of birth: Pakistan (left when I was five years old); English only; no hindi, no punjabi, no urdu, nothing but english. Want to learn Telugu (90% of people I know through immigration are from Andhra).

Lived in Canada most of my life.

Permanent resident of : USA, Australia, New Zealand, Guyana (through wife)
Citizen of: Canada (through natrualization in 1977) and by birth via Pakistan.

 

[gcWudBeHere]

Country of birth: Pakistan (left when I was five years old); English only; no hindi, no punjabi, no urdu, nothing but english. Want to learn Telugu (90% of people I know through immigration are from Andhra).

Pakistan.

At least in this regard I can help you, an expert in immi-matters. I am an Andhrite and fluent in Telugu. But, your comments still chuckle me "Want to learn Telugu...Haha". Reminds me of all those fellow-Andhrites struggling to become GC-ians....

Congrats on your green card.

Now, you always suggested that everybody pursue his/her dreams even while on H1-B and waiting for GC. Could you briefly explain how you did that all these days?

 

[Jackolantern]

Country of birth: Pakistan (left when I was five years old); English only; no hindi, no punjabi, no urdu, nothing but english. Want to learn Telugu (90% of people I know through immigration are from Andhra).

Lived in Canada most of my life.

Permanent resident of : USA, Australia, New Zealand, Guyana (through wife)
Citizen of: Canada (through natrualization in 1977) and by birth via Pakistan.

So that's the reason for the "unitednations" username.

 

[GotGC??]

You already have the frigging GC, what are you doing hanging around here ??

Permanent resident of : USA, Australia, New Zealand, Guyana (through wife)
Citizen of: Canada (through natrualization in 1977) and by birth via Pakistan.

 

[greenguru]

Good To know you are going to HYD

Hi UN,
Please let me know when you are going to Hyd. or if you need any help from HYD.

I can take care of your travel requirements when you are in HYD.

it might be tough for you to remember each one of us. But in short you helped me 2 time, once in H1B and once in I-140.

Thanks..

 

[chanduv23]

I haven't read the bill in great detail yet.

This is what I can tell you: In h-1b; they look at the sponsoring employer mainly in one of two ways. As the employer or agent acting as the employer.

Depending on the evidence you give or they ask; you have to prove you are one of the two.

If you are acting as the employer; they do certain tests to determine if the h-1b employer is controlling your work (ie., do they set your pay; human resource policies; direct your work; review your work; provide you the computers; tell you where to go and when to go; etc. If your employer does this then they are considered your employer for h-1b purposes and you would NOT BE CONSIDERED to be doing body shopping.

If you are in the placement business and acting as a temp. staffing agency then that is a different matter. Staffing at end client is definitely staffing and would be impacted by this bill. It would be considered staffing at end client; if you a position has been created or you are fulfilling a position that their normal employee would hold but they can't find someone currently. In this case; your client is controlling your work and you are under their direction.

Now; if there is a project going on at a client; and there is another vendor who is controlling the project and they are looking at staffing the project then that would be allowed since you are "consulting" at the client location and not taking someones job there.

Note: I am telling what the law says and the different types of RFE's that uscis/consulates give and how they spell it out. Some people may be able to mask this if they are in the country but trying to get visa stamping then the burden would be quite heavy for people to get a visa. It is already difficult and will become even more difficult.

Thanks for all the insight. I think you can never forget me for calling you a "Big daddy". Congrats on your Green Card. I think you must seriously consider a position on K Street as a "Immigration Lobbyist".

 

[GotPR?]

New bill(S1092) seemed introduced at Senate yesterday.
The title is not clear whether it is regarding non-immigrant visa number, or visa number for GC,
but it is probably more likely for H1 quota after seeing disaster on April 2 and 3.
No text yet.

www.thomas.gov

S.1092
Title: A bill to temporarily increase the number of visas which may be issued to certain highly skilled workers.
Sponsor: Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] (introduced 4/11/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 4/11/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

 

[tusharvk]

Please look at fdbl.com and then go to resources and immigration headlines for the details on the following.

New bill(S1092) seemed introduced at Senate yesterday.
The title is not clear whether it is regarding non-immigrant visa number, or visa number for GC,
but it is probably more likely for H1 quota after seeing disaster on April 2 and 3.
No text yet.

www.thomas.gov

S.1092
Title: A bill to temporarily increase the number of visas which may be issued to certain highly skilled workers.
Sponsor: Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] (introduced 4/11/2007) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 4/11/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

 

[prank]

Well, I am not being so foolish. If the USCIS wants to tighten up things and I get kicked out as a result, then let them GO AHEAD AND DO IT.

Jack...
It is never going to happen. I work at a trading desk (IT)and i can confidently say that if they kick us all out, most of the trading desks may not even function. I don't buy the rather silly argument that we should all remain silent because if we make noise the other side will use it and laws will be tougher.
If that is the case (tightening laws if we make noise),I would say...Bring it on...

 

[nyc8300]

Senators willl look at trading desks to decide immigration. Economic value addition of a bunch of traders to the economy is negligible.... I do agree about not keeping Mum though....

Jack...
It is never going to happen. I work at a trading desk (IT)and i can confidently say that if they kick us all out, most of the trading desks may not even function. I don't buy the rather silly argument that we should all remain silent because if we make noise the other side will use it and laws will be tougher.
If that is the case (tightening laws if we make noise),I would say...Bring it on...