Forget Green card, even H-1 renewal will be impossible

[nyc8300]

If companies like WIPRO etc need to send employees to clients they can use L-1 visas. Maybe USCIS should increase fees for L-1 cases. In any case, off shoring will increase, so larger IT companies will not be affected.
The problem will be for body shoppers/small companies and immigration lawyers though but lets american companies apply for candidates as and when they need them.
At the moment, even if the H-1b quota is increased, body shoppers will jam up the applications and then apply for greencards and create more retrogession.
If people want to come to live in the US they may take more traditional F-1 and H-1b route which is always better for them in the long run.
I would support the bill since it cleans up the middleman and the system.

If this was two years ago; I would agree with you guys to say they should make it tougher.

Just keep in mind that this is employer base system. If they make it tougher for employers then the collateral damage is the people who want greencard and/or h-1b.

Many of the postings and reasons people have is to generally get away from their employers who are doing h-1b and greencards.

I don't know how many of you got the h-1b or labor and what your profiles are.

My experience is that people who went f-1 route to h-1b generally were from second/third tier universities and people who came on h-1b came through staffing companies and then switched later.

As far as I know; not too many companies here in USA will go straight to India or far away lands to recruit a person to come to USA.

Because I was in Canada; it takes less then an hour to fly to new york to get interviewed and is easy to get across the border to explore opportunites. People in far away lands do not have such luxury. I personally would not have been impacted whatsoever in the tightening of these rules. I worked straight into large corporates. However, I do know enough people who would be impacted.

If they do get tough with h-1b's; which they perhaps should; and they increase the greencards; then people/companies will flip to getting people here on greencard directly (sort of like nurses). If cap gets incrased enough then people will come through the permanent route rather then the h-1b route. If there is tightening of h-1b but no increase in greencard quota then everything will come to a standstill.

Two very good things about staffing companies is that they are good to get you initial entry into USA and then bail you out if you get laid off from the permanent jobs. If you get laid off from permanent job; I imagine it takes time to find another job and other corporates attornies may not do the transfer without paystubs, etc.

Although the tightening might help people already in the greencard process; it is one of those things where the cure might be worse then the disease.

 

[aawara]

I don't think this bill has any chance of passing. Several provisions in this bill are unrealistic at best:
1) An H1-B employee of a consulting firm can't work at a client site - Not just Infosys and Wipro but Accenture, PriceWaterHouse, Ernst Young, Deloitte all hire H1Bs and they have to work at client locations.

2) An employer can't have more than 50% of its employees who are H1-B - Come to silicon valley and its hard to find good people. There are several companies where majority of the employees are H1-B. This clause just prevents companies from hiring what they need: good workers.

One must remember that consulting companies are thriving because of an acute skilled labor shortage in the US. If there weren't as many opportunities the consulting companies wouldn't survive. Also, several companies big and small prefer to hire consultants over full-time employees since their balance sheets look better. An employee comes under head-count and influences the investors decision about a company's finances. A consultant on the other hand comes under Capital Expenditure which most companies prefer over a high burn rate.

Finally, I am sure all the likes of Accenture, Infosys and Wipro will lobby hard against such a thoughtless and anti-competitive measure.
Although I do agree that we need a reform in the H1-B/L1 program to prevent abuse however that doesn't mean that we need a cowboy reform such as this.

 

[baby_mde]

I doubt that this bill can survive. It is clear that bill has an idea to restrict consilting companies and bodyshops from hiring H1B and L1.

Microsoft is kind of exception that hires H1B directly. Most of others big enterprises are hiring contracters. They work with certain number of dedicated consulting companies, it is not possible to be hired directly by them.

That is true. If this bill passes, it may not survive for long. This bill increase in outsourcing and even moving companies from US, eventually americans loose their jobs.

 

[Jackolantern]

If companies like WIPRO etc need to send employees to clients they can use L-1 visas.

The same bill also bans bodyshopping of L-1.

 

[Jackolantern]

I don't think this bill has any chance of passing. Several provisions in this bill are unrealistic at best:
1) An H1-B employee of a consulting firm can't work at a client site - Not just Infosys and Wipro but Accenture, PriceWaterHouse, Ernst Young, Deloitte all hire H1Bs and they have to work at client locations.

So they'll just have to use Americans for on-site consulting positions.

2) An employer can't have more than 50% of its employees who are H1-B - Come to silicon valley and its hard to find good people. There are several companies where majority of the employees are H1-B. This clause just prevents companies from hiring what they need: good workers.

This is not dot-com boom anymore. There is no need for a company with over 50 people to have over 50% H1 employees if they truly tried to recruit Americans.

One must remember that consulting companies are thriving because of an acute skilled labor shortage in the US. If there weren't as many opportunities the consulting companies wouldn't survive. Also, several companies big and small prefer to hire consultants over full-time employees since their balance sheets look better. An employee comes under head-count and influences the investors decision about a company's finances. A consultant on the other hand comes under Capital Expenditure which most companies prefer over a high burn rate.

Yes, but when consulting rates go up it tilts the balance back towards direct hiring. If there is no such labor shortage, consulting companies will find who they need among Americans and consulting rates won't go up.

Finally, I am sure all the likes of Accenture, Infosys and Wipro will lobby hard against such a thoughtless and anti-competitive measure.

Of course they will. But there will be others lobbying on the other side. And an interesting effect of this bill is that it would give the bodyshoppers an incentive to lobby for a faster green card process (including quotas etc.), since green card holders will be free of restrictions regarding where you can place them. As it is now, bodyshoppers actually benefit from a slow green card process.

Although I do agree that we need a reform in the H1-B/L1 program to prevent abuse however that doesn't mean that we need a cowboy reform such as this.

Yes, it does go overboard, but if the purpose of H1 and EB is to fill labor shortages, reforms like this (albeit with some changes) are needed.

 

[Jackolantern]

That is true. If this bill passes, it may not survive for long. This bill increase in outsourcing and even moving companies from US, eventually americans loose their jobs.

I don't think so. Most offshoring nowadays is through companies like Infosys, Tata, Wipro, etc., not directly to the corporations' own foreign subsidiaries. Such arrangements require 1 consultant on-site for every 5-10 offshore programmers. If Infosys et. al. can't place enough consultants on-site, the offshoring will decrease, not increase.

However, I can imagine them gaming the system in other ways, like bringing in people on B1 visas and rotating them back to India every 3-6 months.

 

[tusharvk]

H1b is being misused; if companies are asked to make effort to recruit US workers before approving the recruitment of a foreign worker and bringing him on H1b, I would say it is fair. Skills that are in short supply in the US will become identified and investment in education for those skills can be made so that the shortage is addressed in the long run.

But this will be a big law change; and vested interests that are negatively affected are bound to make noises.

My experience is that people who went f-1 route to h-1b generally were from second/third tier universities and people who came on h-1b came through staffing companies and then switched later.

As far as I know; not too many companies here in USA will go straight to India or far away lands to recruit a person to come to USA.

Because I was in Canada; it takes less then an hour to fly to new york to get interviewed and is easy to get across the border to explore opportunites. People in far away lands do not have such luxury. I personally would not have been impacted whatsoever in the tightening of these rules. I worked straight into large corporates. However, I do know enough people who would be impacted.

If they do get tough with h-1b's; which they perhaps should; and they increase the greencards; then people/companies will flip to getting people here on greencard directly (sort of like nurses). If cap gets incrased enough then people will come through the permanent route rather then the h-1b route. If there is tightening of h-1b but no increase in greencard quota then everything will come to a standstill.

Two very good things about staffing companies is that they are good to get you initial entry into USA and then bail you out if you get laid off from the permanent jobs. If you get laid off from permanent job; I imagine it takes time to find another job and other corporates attornies may not do the transfer without paystubs, etc.

Although the tightening might help people already in the greencard process; it is one of those things where the cure might be worse then the disease.

 

[gcwhenever]

H1b is being misused; if companies are asked to make effort to recruit US workers before approving the recruitment of a foreign worker and bringing him on H1b, I would say it is fair. Skills that are in short supply in the US will become identified and investment in education for those skills can be made so that the shortage is addressed in the long run.

But this will be a big law change; and vested interests that are negatively affected are bound to make noises.

if companies have to try to recruit US workers at H-1 stage, then labor certification essentially becomes redundant, so gc becomes a 2 step process.

And since govt agencies cannot take as long to approve H-1 visas as DOL had been taking to approve labor certs, maybe this will become a blessing in the long run, since a company can easily say that all recruitment efforts were already made at the H-1 visa stage.
All this farcical recruiting and advertising will no longer be necessary during gc process

 

[GotPR?]

if companies have to try to recruit US workers at H-1 stage, then labor certification essentially becomes redundant, so gc becomes a 2 step process.

And since govt agencies cannot take as long to approve H-1 visas as DOL had been taking to approve labor certs, maybe this will become a blessing in the long run, since a company can easily say that all recruitment efforts were already made at the H-1 visa stage.
All this farcical recruiting and advertising will no longer be necessary during gc process

H1 job is not necessary the same as GC job. L/E job may not be either. What about F, B or J which does not need LCA ?

And you need to remember that if strict recruitment effort is a must item for H1, it affects all the existing H1 holders too. Every time they transfer H1, they have to prove that there is no candidates other than you. And even for H1 extension, you have to do the same as extension is required to file LCA which tests the market. So, you may lose your job if there is any american who can fill your position when you file extension.

 

[qplearn]

scare tactics

Waldenpond wants to get more ppl to sign up for his IV organization, and he thinks this kind of a scare tactic may work here. If this bill is actually passed, the H1B system will see a much needed reform, and desi consulting companies will play a diminishing role. That will be a blessing for all of us stuck in the GC queue.

 

[qplearn]

H1 job is not necessary the same as GC job. L/E job may not be either. What about F, B or J which does not need LCA ?

And you need to remember that if strict recruitment effort is a must item for H1, it affects all the existing H1 holders too. Every time they transfer H1, they have to prove that there is no candidates other than you. And even for H1 extension, you have to do the same as extension is required to file LCA which tests the market. So, you may lose your job if there is any american who can fill your position when you file extension.

i agree with gcwhenever. this may stop the process during the GC application of showing that no American is available. Strict recruitment effort is already an item in the GC process, and it has not stopped us from applying for GCs, has it? So if it is made a part of the H1b should that pose a problem? Clearly no! So don't panic. This bill will probably make the H1B process fairer.

 

[gcpro007]

If companies like WIPRO etc need to send employees to clients they can use L-1 visas. Maybe USCIS should increase fees for L-1 cases. In any case, off shoring will increase, so larger IT companies will not be affected.
The problem will be for body shoppers/small companies and immigration lawyers though but lets american companies apply for candidates as and when they need them.
At the moment, even if the H-1b quota is increased, body shoppers will jam up the applications and then apply for greencards and create more retrogession.
If people want to come to live in the US they may take more traditional F-1 and H-1b route which is always better for them in the long run.
I would support the bill since it cleans up the middleman and the system.

I also support this bill as it cleans the lot of shit.

 

[gcwhenever]

Waldenpond wants to get more ppl to sign up for his IV organization, and he thinks this kind of a scare tactic may work here. If this bill is actually passed, the H1B system will see a much needed reform, and desi consulting companies will play a diminishing role. That will be a blessing for all of us stuck in the GC queue.

yes, all iv core members try to announce some "news" by posting a link from iv.
none of it is new, and their scare tactics and analysis has still not improved at all.
if waldenpond really believes his crap why doesnt he get iv to lobby against this bill also?

 

[alterego2]

I agree with those of you who are saying that IV is losing some of its credibility in trying to be everything to everyone.

Instead of analyzing the entire bill and embracing some of the fairer aspects of this bill they have chosen to resort to scare tactics and headlined the thread in such a way "Forget Green card, even H-1 renewal will be impossible".

They in the past have decided despite significant and vocal opposition to push for 485 filing in the absence of visa number availability. I overlooked that as a misguided effort at helping newer members. However given what appears to be this latest misstep, I feel somewhat doubtful about their strategy as well as concerned that in trying to be everything to everyone they will achieve nothing in the end.

If those (IV members) very early in the green card process don't feel that lobbying more for issues toward the end of green card processing is in their interest as well, then they need to be educated not pandered to.

 

[qplearn]

I agree with those of you who are saying that IV is losing some of its credibility in trying to be everything to everyone.

Instead of analyzing the entire bill and embracing some of the fairer aspects of this bill they have chosen to resort to scare tactics and headlined the thread in such a way "Forget Green card, even H-1 renewal will be impossible".

They in the past have decided despite significant and vocal opposition to push for 485 filing in the absence of visa number availability. I overlooked that as a misguided effort at helping newer members. However given what appears to be this latest misstep, I feel somewhat doubtful about their strategy as well as concerned that in trying to be everything to everyone they will achieve nothing in the end.

If those (IV members) very early in the green card process don't feel that lobbying more for issues toward the end of green card processing is in their interest as well, then they need to be educated not pandered to.

The thing is: One of their core members is doing what suits him the best, (I realized that when he refused to discuss the 485 filing issue) and waldenpond just wants more members to contribute money. I and gcwhenever (and I suspect several others) got this a long time back, and I am glad you are seeing through it now.

PS: Are you and pswamy the same?

 

[prank]

UN,

In answer to your rhetorical question at the end. I would say that if it gets harder to get a H1b or EB visa and the quota goes up, then that would be a fairer system that rewards the genuinely deserving individuals who are currently caught up in a system that treats everyone the same and puts everyone in an endless inhumane queue. Atleast then you would get an answer in a reasonable time and can move on with your life, even if that meant moving on elsewhere. It will then turn into a darwinian survival of the fittest situation moving on at a brisk pace. Any genuine labor shortages that emerge would be filled on an ongoing basis.
Ultimately should that not be the goal of an EB immigration system? I don't see it as rhetorical question at all!

I agree 100% with you.I dont know why some guys are always afraid of what "other side" will do.It is hilarious that they are scared of free opinion based on imaginary fears that opponents of immigration will use it.

If opponents are going to use it,So be it.We all know that there are pro GC/ H1 (I support both)as well as just pro GC as well as anti GC/H1 people.

What ever decision has to come even if it means that there is no GC or H1 let it come fast than this silly waiting game of endless retrogression.

 

[gcwhenever]

H1 job is not necessary the same as GC job. L/E job may not be either. What about F, B or J which does not need LCA ?

And you need to remember that if strict recruitment effort is a must item for H1, it affects all the existing H1 holders too. Every time they transfer H1, they have to prove that there is no candidates other than you. And even for H1 extension, you have to do the same as extension is required to file LCA which tests the market. So, you may lose your job if there is any american who can fill your position when you file extension.

since H-1b extensions are necessary for the worker to continue the current job, I dont think the govt can afford to insist on recruitment efforts for every extension. Also, employers will have an immediate stake in this, b'c if govt takes too long to process H-1s, the employee cannot work at all, unlike the gc, which many employers dont care about since it is for a future job. This is good for us, since finally employers will be forced to care about it, unlike gcs, which most employers give two cents about.
In fact, this might even be grounds to ask for elimination of labor certification process for H-1 holders.
Added benefit is elimination of abuse by desi consulting companies adding to the shortage of visa numbers.
With a shortened or no labor certification process, and with premium processing for I-140s, only thing left for us to obtain is more visa numbers, and then total time for gcs will be back to a reasonable 1-2 years, instead of this insane endless wait

 

[PBECIsKillingMe]

Thanks, I heard Sen. Durbin was trying to introduce the bill enforcing some restriction on H1B recently. I guess that is the one.
If that happens, probably it will cause another wave of off-shoring.

Me too. I am banned !!!!!

 

[vladys]

nyc8300

Hi nyc8300,

If you dont mind me asking, are you waiting for your priority dates to get current?

Thanks,
Vladys

Rep senators introducing bills on immigration is a good sign It shows that congressmen know that there is a strong possibility of a final bill on immigration and the congressmen want to include
some of their own provisions.Overall, the rhetoric against immigration reform seems to have quitened out and it is more about everyone trying to negotiate and look like the winner on immigration reform.

 

[no_more_anger]

I agree with the motives of the bill...but the bill won't pass. Companies like Wipro/Infosys will lobby hard against the bill since they won't be able to place their people in US companies on projects.

Even Google today uses contractors because they can't find enough talented people to recruit as full-time employees.

What can be a possible compromise might be a limit per body-shopper and some credential validation of a body-shopper before he/she can start the body-shopping. Also, it would help if the H1-B limit is split into 2 parts...one for body-shoppers and one for US based companies recruiting for work in the compa ny itself.

I don't think any kind of bill related to H1-B is going to relieve the GC problem.