Fake Passports

kaylee said:
Hello all,
My friend had a tourist visa and has been living in the US illegally for over 15 years.
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I'm not sure how applicable this may be but 15 years is a magic number in the waiver process. If you did anything wrong and it's been over 15 years and you were squeaky clean during the last 15 years relatively speaking then there's a good chance they will try to overlook the illegal entry if the law allows them to do so.

Normally this results in a 10 year bar to re-entry but this is a grey situation where she actually does have an I-94 that was stamped so it's not technically uninspected entry. So I'm guessing if they actually find out about this and it's on the table even then she would still be eligible to reapply for entry:

A person who made an uninspected entry (entered illegally without being inspected by an immigration officer) into the United States is not eligible for the Waiver of the Bar to Admissibility while they are in the United States, even if they are in one of the otherwise excepted categories.

Adjustment of status to that of Permanent Resident is not allowed within the United States for persons who entered illegally without inspection by an immigration officer. They MUST go to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate in their home country for issuance of a Permanent Residence Visa, after the Relative Petition is approved by the Immigration Service and an interview is scheduled.

Upon proper application at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate at the time of the permanent residence interview, the "Bar to Admissibility" may be waived for an immigrant who is the spouse or minor child of a U.S. Citizen or the spouse of a lawful permanent resident who made an unlawful entry, if extreme hardship would result to the qualifying U.S. Citizen or permanent resident alien relative. As a practical matter, his type of waiver is routinely given at the U.S. Consulate outside the United States without strict application of the hardship rule.
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Now this excerpt doesn't state the 15 year rule but waivers to inadmissability are usually granted both for extreme hardship situations as well as for 15 years passing after the crime(illegal entry) occured. I'd say the situation is complex to say the least but plenty of loopholes to be explored.
 
LucyMO said:
the interviewer never asked me that.
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Whether they would be inclined to ask that depends on how plausible it is to have citizenship in the country that issued the passport after being born elsewhere, combined with the level of corruption in the passport-issuing agency of the government.

If the immigration policies of the country are highly restrictive when it comes to granting citizenship to people born elsewhere, and/or the passport authorities are known for corruption, the country mismatch would be more likely to raise an eyebrow and invite further questioning or investigation.

Conversely, if the levels of corruption are low and the citizenship policies of the passport-issuing country are fairly open, they wouldn't see anything unusual with the given birth country/passport country combination.
 
This is an important point. The document is not fake. It is a genuine passport issued by country B. The issue is, she was not entitled to it according to the citizenship laws of country B. Now whether the US agencies will consider it a fradulant document or not, that is the million dollar question.

People born in Northern Ireland (part of United Kingdom) can get an Irish passport simply by asking for it. So they can hold both British and Irish passports based just on their place of birth. The Irish probably do this to tick off the British :)

citi786 said:
Keep that in mind that country B passport is not a fake document but obtained the wrong way.
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Looks like the problems with the passport are under the jurisdiction of country B not the United States. The US has no business telling other countries who to issue passports to and how to issue them. The person also did not lie about where they were born either so the cause for fraud isn't really all that strong. The only problem I can see is that the passport of country B might say the holder is a citizen of country B which may very well be a false statement and misrepresentation of a material fact. But still, even though it may be somewhat fraudulent it sounds pretty low on the scale of visa fraud.

But on the other hand the person did actually "buy" citizenship in country B through dubious means which once again is no business of the United States. Although did country B really give the person citizenship? This gets more complex the more you think about it lol.
 
praxx said:
Looks like the problems with the passport are under the jurisdiction of country B not the United States. The US has no business telling other countries who to issue passports to and how to issue them. The person also did not lie about where they were born either so the cause for fraud isn't really all that strong. The only problem I can see is that the passport of country B might say the holder is a citizen of country B which may very well be a false statement and misrepresentation of a material fact. But still, even though it may be somewhat fraudulent it sounds pretty low on the scale of visa fraud.

But on the other hand the person did actually "buy" citizenship in country B through dubious means which once again is no business of the United States. Although did country B really give the person citizenship? This gets more complex the more you think about it lol.
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Good catch, I wonder what does "Place of Birth" says on the passport. If it say country A, no problem then but if it says country B, I wonder where is going to come up with the BC of country B.
 
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Al Southner said:
Kaylee,

I am concerned about the ethical conduct of the attorney involved in this process. This case could go either way, she could get into some serious trouble and possible life ban in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at the end of this process is nailed in their behind on the wall of shame.
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I told her that but at the end of the day, its her choice and she's full aware of the risks :)
 
praxx said:
I'm not sure how applicable this may be but 15 years is a magic number in the waiver process. If you did anything wrong and it's been over 15 years and you were squeaky clean during the last 15 years relatively speaking then there's a good chance they will try to overlook the illegal entry if the law allows them to do so.

Normally this results in a 10 year bar to re-entry but this is a grey situation where she actually does have an I-94 that was stamped so it's not technically uninspected entry. So I'm guessing if they actually find out about this and it's on the table even then she would still be eligible to reapply for entry:




Now this excerpt doesn't state the 15 year rule but waivers to inadmissability are usually granted both for extreme hardship situations as well as for 15 years passing after the crime(illegal entry) occured. I'd say the situation is complex to say the least but plenty of loopholes to be explored.
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I don't think this applies to her, because she has been inspected at entry. This is for people who have not been inspected, i-e entered illegally. She had a valid visa.
 
Jackolantern said:
Whether they would be inclined to ask that depends on how plausible it is to have citizenship in the country that issued the passport after being born elsewhere, combined with the level of corruption in the passport-issuing agency of the government.

If the immigration policies of the country are highly restrictive when it comes to granting citizenship to people born elsewhere, and/or the passport authorities are known for corruption, the country mismatch would be more likely to raise an eyebrow and invite further questioning or investigation.

Conversely, if the levels of corruption are low and the citizenship policies of the passport-issuing country are fairly open, they wouldn't see anything unusual with the given birth country/passport country combination.
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Well, it is not unusual for people to carry dual citizenships from country A and B so I don't think that will raise eyebrows. Also, country B is respected enough I think. Ok I will just give it away. Country B is France.....
 
Triple Citizen said:
This is an important point. The document is not fake. It is a genuine passport issued by country B. The issue is, she was not entitled to it according to the citizenship laws of country B. Now whether the US agencies will consider it a fradulant document or not, that is the million dollar question.

People born in Northern Ireland (part of United Kingdom) can get an Irish passport simply by asking for it. So they can hold both British and Irish passports based just on their place of birth. The Irish probably do this to tick off the British :)
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I agree! It is not fake, it was issued by the proper authorities but she wasn't entitled to it, so they don't have any reason to doubt its validity
 
praxx said:
Looks like the problems with the passport are under the jurisdiction of country B not the United States. The US has no business telling other countries who to issue passports to and how to issue them. The person also did not lie about where they were born either so the cause for fraud isn't really all that strong. The only problem I can see is that the passport of country B might say the holder is a citizen of country B which may very well be a false statement and misrepresentation of a material fact. But still, even though it may be somewhat fraudulent it sounds pretty low on the scale of visa fraud.

But on the other hand the person did actually "buy" citizenship in country B through dubious means which once again is no business of the United States. Although did country B really give the person citizenship? This gets more complex the more you think about it lol.
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No she didn't get citizenship from country B. She only carries a passport from country B, but no other documents from country B
 
citi786 said:
Good catch, I wonder what doe "Place of Birth" says on the passport. If it say country A, no problem then but if it says country B, I wonder where is going to come up with the BC of country B.
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Like I said in my previous posts, on the passport from country B, it does say that Place of Birth was Country A, so there are no discrepancies on that level.
 
kaylee said:
Like I said in my previous posts, on the passport from country B, it does say that Place of Birth was Country A, so there are no discrepancies on that level.
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Then its a piece of cake for her, since she can produce birth records from country A. France, wow I would have bet my house that it would be a third world country.........
 
citi786 said:
Then its a piece of cake for her, since she can produce birth records from country A. France, wow I would have bet my house that it would be a third world country.........
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Lol no its not a third world country. Yes she has her BC from country A
 
Triple Citizen said:
If she held a French passport 15 years back, why did she need a visit visa for the US? The VWPP was started way back in 1986.
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That, I have no idea, all I know is she has a french passport and she has a US visa stamped on that passport with the I-94
 
lol, well shes just starting the process now. I will keep u guys updated on how it goes, probably in the next 6 months she will get an answer.
 
kaylee said:
Well, it is not unusual for people to carry dual citizenships from country A and B so I don't think that will raise eyebrows. Also, country B is respected enough I think. Ok I will just give it away. Country B is France.....
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Nobody in USCIS is going to suspect France, she will have no issues, you have declared it now but even i would'nt have expect it to be France myself in a million years.
 
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