Education Of Children

Re: Thank you

Originally posted by deepak007
Kashmir,

Thank you for the response. Yes i know iam lucky to be considered for in-state tuition, however i contacted the university today and was told that my son was not eligible for FAFSA as a non-citizen. Looks like everyone is not aware of the changes. I will try again and once again thanks for the response.

Regards

Deepak
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Work it out. If there are problems, I will send a letter for you folks. May be we can prepare some kind of a legal opinion that all can use. Kashmir, please write it up for me if necessary. You are the expert. :)
 
Fafsa Definition of a Eligible non-citizen

Rajeev,

I looked up FAFSA on the internet and as per what i understand, Per FAFSA a non-citizen is eligible for FAFSA aid however the definition of a non-citizen is also explained below.

"The student is an eligible noncitizen if he or she is one of the following:

a) U.S. permanent resident, and the student has a Permanent Resident Card (formerly known as the Alien Registration or "Green" Card)
b) Conditional permanent resident (I-551C)
c) Other eligible noncitizen with an Arrival-Departure Record (I-94) from the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service showing any one of the following designations: "Refugee," "Asylum Granted," "Indefinite Parole," "Humanitarian Parole," or "Cuban-Haitian Entrant."

Does this not mean that a child on dependent visa H-4 or L-2 is not eligible by virtue of not being a refugee, asylee, cuban-haotan. In case he has used AP and entered the country still the I-94 is not stamped as Indefinite or Humanitarian.

I do not know what a I-551C is , can you clarify.

Regards

Deepak
 
Hi, deepak007,
As of today, the only description that I know is at page 1-23 of the latest SFA Handbook for 2003-2004:
http://ifap.ed.gov/sfahandbooks/attachments/0304Vol1Ch2.pdf
Other Eligible Noncitizen includes:
Persons paroled into the U.S. for at least one year. These individuals must also provide evidence (such as having filed a valid permanent resident application) from the BCIS that they are in the U.S. for other than a temporary purpose and intend to become a citizen or permanent resident;

No other document is updated.
And most of counselors seem not to be informed yet.

When I called to FAFSA at 1-800-433-3243, I was told that student with AOS pending status should be eligible.

Now, I am asking to Department of Education
whom we should refer to if a university counselor does not know this change of this year.

I will post a sample letter to a university counselor soon.

Anyway, I recommend our children to apply FAFSA as an eligible noncitizen before the deadline.
We can negotiate it with a counselor later.
 
Re: Fafsa Definition of a Eligible non-citizen

Originally posted by deepak007
Rajeev,

I looked up FAFSA on the internet and as per what i understand, Per FAFSA a non-citizen is eligible for FAFSA aid however the definition of a non-citizen is also explained below.

"The student is an eligible noncitizen if he or she is one of the following:

a) U.S. permanent resident, and the student has a Permanent Resident Card (formerly known as the Alien Registration or "Green" Card)
b) Conditional permanent resident (I-551C)
c) Other eligible noncitizen with an Arrival-Departure Record (I-94) from the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service showing any one of the following designations: "Refugee," "Asylum Granted," "Indefinite Parole," "Humanitarian Parole," or "Cuban-Haitian Entrant."

Does this not mean that a child on dependent visa H-4 or L-2 is not eligible by virtue of not being a refugee, asylee, cuban-haotan. In case he has used AP and entered the country still the I-94 is not stamped as Indefinite or Humanitarian.

I do not know what a I-551C is , can you clarify.

Regards

Deepak
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551 is green card.

It means H-4/L-2 are not included. But see Kashmir's post for the rest.

Also see this thread for what we are trying:

http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114165
 
Handbook updated...

On 08/18/2003 FSA issued a list of updates. Volume 1; Bullet 3 reads:

...We have revised the guidance regarding parolees as eligible noncitizens in chapter 2. The new text now states that parolees are eligible noncitizens if paroled into the U.S. for at least a year and if they can provide evidence from the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS, formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service or INS) that they are in the U.S. for other than a temporary purpose with the intent to become citizens or permanent residents. A valid application for lawful permanent resident status on file with the BCIS would meet this criterion

Clear enough...

http://ifap.ed.gov/sfahandbooks/0304FSAHBUpdatesChanges.html
 
Re: Handbook updated...

Cachon/Kashmir,

Great job!! You made our life easy now!!

Thank you so much to you all and special thanks to Mr. Rajiv also!!

Originally posted by Cachon
On 08/18/2003 FSA issued a list of updates. Volume 1; Bullet 3 reads:

...We have revised the guidance regarding parolees as eligible noncitizens in chapter 2. The new text now states that parolees are eligible noncitizens if paroled into the U.S. for at least a year and if they can provide evidence from the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS, formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service or INS) that they are in the U.S. for other than a temporary purpose with the intent to become citizens or permanent residents. A valid application for lawful permanent resident status on file with the BCIS would meet this criterion

Clear enough...

http://ifap.ed.gov/sfahandbooks/0304FSAHBUpdatesChanges.html
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I just mailed this letter to johniwasakiNOSPAM@seattlepi.com. He wrote a piece on resident tuition issues in Washington state -
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/146109_tuition30.html

Dear John,

I am writing in reference to your article in the Seattle PI dated Oct 30 2003. I wish to

clarify issues surrounding visa holding students and why I think it is just that certain

visa holding students qualify under this bill.

Under current Washington state law, only 4 visa categories A, E, K & G are considered

eligible for in-state tuition. The reason for this restriction is that supposedly only these

visa categories are eligible to establish a domicile in the US. However there are other visa

categories such as the H1B , H4 (dependent of H1B), L1 and L2(dependent of L1) where the US

Congress has expressly allowed visa holders to have immigrant intent and the privilege of

establishing domicile.

Work visas such as the H1B are approved in two 3 year increments for a total of 6 years and

then in 1 year increments until the USCIS finishes processing a permanent residency

application. The process of permanent residency is complex and can frequently take 6 to 10

years to complete. As you can imagine, there will be students who moved to the US as

dependents of work visa holders, but have to pay out of state tuition even though they have

been long time residents of the state.

These work visas are distinct from other non-immigrant categories like the

F1/F2(student/dependent of student) and TN/TD (NAFTA) visas. Holders of these visas are not

allowed to establish domicile.

It is my opinion that Washington State has been illegally requiring H1/H4, L1/L2 holders to

pay out of state tuition. I believe the only reason this continues is because no one has

challenged this requirement in federal court. It is worth noting here that certain states

like California started recognizing these visa categories as resident for tuition purposes

only after adverse federal court decisions.

Therefore, I believe that Washington State college registrars are taking the path of least

resistance in allowing these visa holders to qualify as residents. It is only just that

legal immigrants who have followed all the rules be eligible for this tuition break.

Regards,
 
Re: feb6361

Originally posted by kashmir
(Originally posted by feb6361 at the Complaint main thread 29th January 2004 04:36 AM)

Want to file personal lawsuite to university?

Dear Mr. Rajiv Khanna,

I would like to file a personal lawsuit to my son's state university for not considering as a 'in-state' student. They are considering him an 'International student' and charging $24,000 tuition fee.
I contacted register office and they were saying that they will consider me as a 'in-state' student not my son since I was on H1 visa and my I-485 EB case is pending over 1 year where as my son was on H4 visa they won't consider him a 'in-state' student ( I have reply email copy from registar office). By doing this for last two terms, we are blocked for any fedral/state finc. aid/loan/scholarship. Also, BCIS is scrutinizing our case more as they consider my son as a 'international student'. It might be reason for our EB I-485 cases pending over 2 years now and they transferred our case to Missouri Service center.

I would like to file a personal law suite to University for discrimination and asking for a damage like that..

Please let me know, what are my options (cost and benifit)?. Will you be my lawyer for this case?

Thank you
We are facing following hardship:
(1) We have paid total $ 24,000 tuition fee for my son as an international student ver $ 8,000 as an in-state student. Collage register is ready to consider my as an in-state student as soon as our passport gets stamp for PR. I have informed USCIS –VSC in writing about this hardship and they transferred our case to MSC next day. We are not able to get any financial aid/scholar ship even though we are paying taxes since last six years and my son is a bright student with SAT score of 1270 with GPA above 4.
(2) My son is not able to focus in study due to heavy loan burden of $24,000 and his 1st term grad also came very poor.

feb6361
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I found a Supreme Court opinion Toll v. Moreno (1982) 458 U.S. 1 [73 L.Ed.2d 563, 102 S.Ct. 2977].)
that will help if you do file a lawsuit. In this opinion, the Supreme Court ruled against the University of Maryland and held that G4 visa holders should be considered as resident for tuition purposes.
Although this opinion only mentions the G4 category, it does expound on the distinction between those visa categories allowed to establish a domicile and those visa categories required to maintain a foreign residence.
 
Some more background

With regard to the in-state tuiton debate and the discussion above about laying suit, When searching on Toll V Moreno (Thanks Rajiv for the reference) I found this resource on http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/DREAM pages.

It is a PDF table summarizing the position of states who have or are in the process of signing in legislation related to this subject. May help some friends in here know how they can approach their state colleges.

Sadly it also highlights by ommision the the states who have not done anything about this. In my case of Pennsylvania I see nothing there, so I wonder if any other PA reseident H1B/H4 and J's would be prepared to at least start a lobbying campaign of the State assemblies and Gov. Rendell.

Thoughts??

Stuart
 
oops sorry ficapls

Sorry it was not Rajiv bu ficapls who provided the Toll v Moreno reference. Ooops! :eek:
 
I don't know how the interplay of state law vs. federal law works. Does federal law trump state law ?

The reason I am asking this is because some states have laws which explicitly lay out what visa categories receive in-state tuition.

If federal law is supreme, then there's a good chance that you can get in-state tuition by citing Toll v. Moreno as precedent. California courts have used Toll v. Moreno as precedent for things like denying resident tuition to TD visa holders and undocumented aliens and allowing H-4 holders access to in-state tuition.
 
Sorry, my brain wasn't working. The supremacy clause ensures that federal law ALWAYS trumps state law.
 
Re: Some more background

Originally posted by stueym
With regard to the in-state tuiton debate and the discussion above about laying suit, When searching on Toll V Moreno (Thanks Rajiv for the reference) I found this resource on http://www.nilc.org/immlawpolicy/DREAM pages.

It is a PDF table summarizing the position of states who have or are in the process of signing in legislation related to this subject. May help some friends in here know how they can approach their state colleges.

Sadly it also highlights by ommision the the states who have not done anything about this. In my case of Pennsylvania I see nothing there, so I wonder if any other PA reseident H1B/H4 and J's would be prepared to at least start a lobbying campaign of the State assemblies and Gov. Rendell.

Thoughts??

Stuart
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That table and website is primarily meant to lay out positions for illegal immigrants. IMO, in-state tuition for non-immigrants eligible to establish domicile was settled by the Supreme Court in 1982 and the state schools are just taking advantage of the fact that non-immigrants may be uninformed and pay up as non-residents.

I don't think you need to start a lobbying campaign. The law is already on your side. What needs to be done is this -

1. Get a plaintiff with cause. Get someone who has applied as a non-immigrant(H1/H4/L1/L2,etc) for in-state tuition and been denied.

2. Follow the schools dispute resolution mechanism and protest the decision. <I may be wrong here/>

3. If they still do not agree, file suit in federal court.

I don't know how the court system works, but if a group from neighbouring states is filing, then it may make sense to file in the circuit court covering all of those states.
 
I have attached the full text of the final decision by the Supreme Court. The case has an interesting history, going from District Court to Appeals Court to Supreme Court to Appeals Court to Supreme Court.

BTW, anyone interested in searching can use LexisNexis.com on a pay as you go basis. Each document costs $9. Other interesting case where Toll v. Moreno is cited are Carlson v. Reed in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and Regents of the Univ. of California vs. California Superior Court.

All California opinions are online and searchable/viewable for free at http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/
 
ficapls and others,

thank you so much for all the detail! Mr. Rajiv is helping me in fighting with my son university. We are at the negotiation stage since they are also started to cooprate little bit after Mr. rajiv got involved in this and looks positive now.

I will keep you all posted the outcome but the main thing is Our 1st priority is I-485 backlog case with USCIS.

Thank you again!

Originally posted by ficapls
I have attached the full text of the final decision by the Supreme Court. The case has an interesting history, going from District Court to Appeals Court to Supreme Court to Appeals Court to Supreme Court.

BTW, anyone interested in searching can use LexisNexis.com on a pay as you go basis. Each document costs $9. Other interesting case where Toll v. Moreno is cited are Carlson v. Reed in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and Regents of the Univ. of California vs. California Superior Court.

All California opinions are online and searchable/viewable for free at http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by feb6361
ficapls and others,
thank you so much for all the detail! Mr. Rajiv is helping me in fighting with my son university. We are at the negotiation stage since they are also started to cooprate little bit after Mr. rajiv got involved in this and looks positive now.
I will keep you all posted the outcome but the main thing is Our 1st priority is I-485 backlog case with USCIS.
Thank you again!
Click to expand...
Hi, feb6361,
It's great to hear about progress on your son's tuition issue.

For FAFSA eligble noncitizen issue, I faced some hardship but I have no time to describe the detail right now.
Anyway, my recommendation is:
1) File 1040.
2) Get PIN at http://www.pin.ed.gov/ for both student and parent (it takes a couple of days).
3) Submit FAFSA as Eligible Noncitizen before the deadline (each university has its own priority deadline).
4) Negotiate later.
 
Kashmir,

In my son's case, first I need to change his status from 'international student' to 'out-of-state' since we were in NJ for 6 years before coming to GA in August 2003. I can filout FAFSA application after that..

Thank you!

Originally posted by kashmir
Hi, feb6361,
It's great to hear about progress on your son's tuition issue.

For FAFSA eligble noncitizen issue, I faced some hardship but I have no time to describe the detail right now.
Anyway, my recommendation is:
1) File 1040.
2) Get PIN at http://www.pin.ed.gov/ for both student and parent (it takes a couple of days).
3) Submit FAFSA as Eligible Noncitizen before the deadline (each university has its own priority deadline).
4) Negotiate later.
Click to expand...
 
FAFSA and FSA Funding Eligibility

My husband (derivative, H4 currently) and I (primary, H1 currently) submitted a 485 in July 2003.

In Jan. 2004, my husband began chiropractic studies. We were told from the college that we were ineligible for FAFSA and FSA funding. However, based on the discussion from this subject, I contacted the financial aid office and forwarded to them the 2003-2004 FSA Handbook, Volume I, Chapter 2: Citizenship.

The financial aid officer then referred me to page 1-35 of Volume 1, Chapter 2: Citizenship and stated that a "a pending application for permanent residency (by itself) does not constitute eligibility for financial aid".

Also, they asked me whether or not my husband is a "parolee".

Does anyone have advice on how to respond to these questions?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 
Re: FAFSA and FSA Funding Eligibility

lisainaz,

Please find the FSA Handbook updated...

On 08/18/2003 FSA issued a list of updates. Volume 1; Bullet 3 reads:

...We have revised the guidance regarding parolees as eligible noncitizens in chapter 2. The new text now states that parolees are eligible noncitizens if paroled into the U.S. for at least a year and if they can provide evidence from the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (BCIS, formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service or INS) that they are in the U.S. for other than a temporary purpose with the intent to become citizens or permanent residents. A valid application for lawful permanent resident status on file with the BCIS would meet this criterion.


http://ifap.ed.gov/sfahandbooks/030...tesChanges.html

Clear enough...

"A valid application for lawful permanent resident status on file with the BCIS would meet this criterion".

Also you can contact or university fin. aid office can contact FAFSA's only supervisor "SHAUNA MARQUEZ" at 1-800-433-3243 (FAFSA 1-800 no. and ask for her). When I talked to her, she told that she will guide the university what to do in this case.

Hope this will help.


Originally posted by lisainaz
My husband (derivative, H4 currently) and I (primary, H1 currently) submitted a 485 in July 2003.

In Jan. 2004, my husband began chiropractic studies. We were told from the college that we were ineligible for FAFSA and FSA funding. However, based on the discussion from this subject, I contacted the financial aid office and forwarded to them the 2003-2004 FSA Handbook, Volume I, Chapter 2: Citizenship.

The financial aid officer then referred me to page 1-35 of Volume 1, Chapter 2: Citizenship and stated that a "a pending application for permanent residency (by itself) does not constitute eligibility for financial aid".

Also, they asked me whether or not my husband is a "parolee".

Does anyone have advice on how to respond to these questions?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
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Re: Dream Act

I am anxiously awaiting for the Dream Act to become law. Does anybody have an opinion on whether this bill will have a chance on passing this year?
 
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