EB Retrogession - HOT News !

[rbms]

Good for you. If you were sincere when contributed and being tracked/prosecuted is the only thing which changed your decision , you should make a trip to some post office and send money order.(And make sure to post here that you did) Or else we all know what you truely stand for.(and probably who you work for) Sorry buddy, you did not succed in your goal(atleast with me)

Why are you posting this in unrelated forum topic. You have initiated a topic just to discuss this. Now we really know what you stand for.

i Cancelled my papyal transaction with ImmigrationVoice.org - and had peace now
I do not want to make any jeopardy to my application by contributing to lobbying firms.

I agree with one thing, we can educate lawmakers without all this money/lobbying involved.

why to put fingers, in which things are not clear/ and does not have plan to convince the money contributions.(I mean legal point of view).

God help us to get out of this retrogression.

 

[retrogression20]

check out buddy - this is being discussed in these 2 threads

That is what i am going to do - i will send money order after paypal transaction is completely cancelled.
I do not want to do identity based transactions like paypal/creditcard or something .....which tracks identity.

I am sincere, but had concerns about the things which are not clear
wrt legal point of view.

 

[n77]

Good for you. If you were sincere when contributed and being tracked/prosecuted is the only thing which changed your decision , you should make a trip to some post office and send money order.(And make sure to post here that you did) Or else we all know what you truely stand for.(and probably who you work for) Sorry buddy, you did not succed in your goal(atleast with me)

Why are you posting this in unrelated forum topic. You have initiated a topic just to discuss this. Now we really know what you stand for.

good...retrogression 20...keep it up..anyway y dont u follow rbms idea and send a money order to IV if u really wnt to help them....and post it here after that...
or whn u sleep with ur so called "peace of mind" dreaming abt ur green card...save some time in ur dreams of others working hard for a common cause...
anyway..be good..buddy...

 

[gc_bronco]

catch_22_4_GC......what i meant was....something which is legal for a usa citizen is not legal for an immigrant....even though it follows the same ethics.

second....we do not vote....that means politicians do not gain any thing from us......which means we can just inform them about our plight and hope they will care for us.........and from what i know......it does not work that way......things will get done only for vote..........or big campaign fund..........and we cannot do any...

as far as educating law makers........we dont need any lobbyist for that........if we are persistant enough we definitely can get appointment with their offices(as been done by IV CA team).......

that brings the question, WHAT IS THE ROLE OF A LOBBYIST in our case???

If you think that politcians will work only for money or votes, think again. They also make laws that are beneficial to the US. Case in point, the lobbying work done by the old ISN in bringing about the 180 day rule for I-485. In that case what was emphasized was that it is in the interest of USA to ensure that people remain mobile. Another case in point being the law being changed for a single person Tanith Belbin That is the same thing that we're going to do here by reinforcing how America must retain such high-skilled immigrants to maintain its competitive edge.

Many of you seem to think that lobbying is the same as paying money to politicians. There cannot be anything farther from the truth. What our lobbyist is doing for us is to give us strategy as to what kind of message we should tell to the lawmakers, which lawmakers to meet, how to get affiliated associations to help us, how to get media exposure and so on. There are many more such action items that we're not able to disclose here due to possible anti-immigrants who visit these forums. If you think that just going to the lawmaker and speaking to them will get everything in our favor, don't be so naive.

I have already mentioned this before in this thread and I will repeat it again. There are so many lawyers, lobbyists and Immigration Associations that we have spoken to and all of them have repeatedly said that lobbying by immigrants is legal. There are so many other immigrant associations that are already using the services of a lobbyists for decades now. For a top class lobbyist like Quinn Gillespie, what we're paying is a very small fraction of their revenue which runs in millions of dollars every month. Do you really think that they would be willing to risk their reputation for what we're paying them and did not verify this when they have so many lawyers in their roll. In our agreement with the lobbyist, we have strictly mentioned that no money paid by us can be used towards any political activity.

There has not been a single piece of evidence that any of you have shown, that says that lobbying by immigrants is illegal. All of you just keep speculating that it is illegal and this kind of baseless accusation can confuse other people.

If you want even more details, we'll be shortly having a conference call for all volunteers of Immigration Voice, please join it and understand what all we have done and what we plan to do in future.

 

[sundar99]

Folks.. do not bad mouth others

I see a lot off you are out to bad mouth about other's efforts and time. No one is forcing folks to contribute to IV. (I am not part of it).

It is your choice at the end of the day. Well, incase you folks do not know, even Indian Govt hires lobbyists to promote India's interests in Washington in various spectrums. So I do not see anything wrong in non-immigrants contributing to hire a lobbyists in the process. So what is wrong ?

1. if folks cannot raise their voice via legal means, nothing would get done.
2. When illegals can organise so much of rallies and ensure they get good level of lobbying, why not those who have worked hard and contribute to Social Security here.

Do not fight and bad mouth, it will also drive away the ones who genuinely want to help the Retro cause.

 

[BoxOfChocs]

True!

I see a lot off you are out to bad mouth about other's efforts and time. No one is forcing folks to contribute to IV. (I am not part of it).

It is your choice at the end of the day. Well, incase you folks do not know, even Indian Govt hires lobbyists to promote India's interests in Washington in various spectrums. So I do not see anything wrong in non-immigrants contributing to hire a lobbyists in the process. So what is wrong ?

1. if folks cannot raise their voice via legal means, nothing would get done.
2. When illegals can organise so much of rallies and ensure they get good level of lobbying, why not those who have worked hard and contribute to Social Security here.

Do not fight and bad mouth, it will also drive away the ones who genuinely want to help the Retro cause.

True!
I remember the Indian govt had hired lobbyists, and there were some protests in India. But, after a while everything settled down, and now everybody is happy about it in India! And, they had done so because the Pakistan govt does so as well!

A foreign citizen cannot contribute to election-related issues directly, but it is as legal to buy the counsel of strategic counsellors (lobbyist is more or less colloquial), as it is to get counsel from immigration attorneys by paying them!

As gc_bronco has mentioned in one of the posts - they will not magically get our legislation introduced. But they will guide us about who to meet and how to say what we want to say ! And, since they will be paid by us, they will not simply run away when it is crunch time! They are Washington insiders who understand how things work, and they are simply going to advise us!

The Abramoff scandal is more about misuse of funds provided by the lobbyists to finance illegal junkets / entertainment to politicians! Abrmaoff used to bill the Indian tribes for non-existent work, and then provide these funds to the politicians to fund their trips, etc.! This cannot ever happen to us on our modest funds - our funds will barely meet the lobbyists charges barely!

So, guys join together at IV! We have nothing to lose but the retrogression delays! But, all of us need to be civil to each other all the time!

 

[techy2468]

so far i am glad that this discussion has been going on....i agree with most of the things you guys have said...

but why are you all so emotionally charged??......you guys sound kind of scary....like a religious zealots......who work up a frenzy at every opposing idea.

second, what do you expect from a member in your group, why do i get a feeling.....that if someone is not willing to sacrifice his life for this cause....he is going to be treated like a second class citizen...

third....why do you guys challenge at every opportunity that someone should contribute first and then talk..

all these prove one thing.....that this ORG is very immature and emotional......you all have good intentions.....but you dont sound like a leader who knows what he is dealing with...

i know things will change but when??..it may be too late...(if it takes 2 years for your org to mature and become a leader for our cause.....thats too late for me....even though its goood for the future generations of immigrants...)

please answer my questions.........and please refrain from attacking everyone.....

 

[gc_bronco]

so far i am glad that this discussion has been going on....i agree with most of the things you guys have said...

but why are you all so emotionally charged??......you guys sound kind of scary....like a religious zealots......who work up a frenzy at every opposing idea.

second, what do you expect from a member in your group, why do i get a feeling.....that if someone is not willing to sacrifice his life for this cause....he is going to be treated like a second class citizen...

third....why do you guys challenge at every opportunity that someone should contribute first and then talk..

all these prove one thing.....that this ORG is very immature and emotional......you all have good intentions.....but you dont sound like a leader who knows what he is dealing with...

i know things will change but when??..it may be too late...(if it takes 2 years for your org to mature and become a leader for our cause.....thats too late for me....even though its goood for the future generations of immigrants...)

please answer my questions.........and please refrain from attacking everyone.....

techy2468,

I thought I have answered many of your points. Which of your question is not answered?

Why are we emotional, because some people want to stroke their own ego by showing how much they know, without thinking what kind of consequence their idle speculation will cause.

 

[sobers]

from what i have seen so far, either retrogression20 is a genuine crackpot or an immigration restrictionist who's creeped up on this board to spy, and to stop IV's fine efforts to solve the problem of skilled, legal immigrants..

It can only be one of two things!

 

[techy2468]

what you call as stoking ego is a genuine concern......some of us are just being careful in what we get involved......we are not so passionate about a revolution...we want to calculate the odds before we jump..

and if that makes you angry....sorry dude....that only shows immaturity.

i wish the leaders will maintain some cool....and answer all questions and concerns....even though at times they may be ridiculous.

 

[meg_z]

Techy

If you think they are not mature enough or lacking of leadership skills, why do not you step in to help out.

Let's not criticise, it is always easier to comment on the sideline. IV is what we have. So surport them by whatever way you choose, positively.

so far i am glad that this discussion has been going on....i agree with most of the things you guys have said...

but why are you all so emotionally charged??......you guys sound kind of scary....like a religious zealots......who work up a frenzy at every opposing idea.

second, what do you expect from a member in your group, why do i get a feeling.....that if someone is not willing to sacrifice his life for this cause....he is going to be treated like a second class citizen...

third....why do you guys challenge at every opportunity that someone should contribute first and then talk..

all these prove one thing.....that this ORG is very immature and emotional......you all have good intentions.....but you dont sound like a leader who knows what he is dealing with...

i know things will change but when??..it may be too late...(if it takes 2 years for your org to mature and become a leader for our cause.....thats too late for me....even though its goood for the future generations of immigrants...)

please answer my questions.........and please refrain from attacking everyone.....

 

[nTan]

nTan - Stop this irrelevant ramblings. FYI, lobbying is not illegal.

We know that Lobbying is legal and the number of lobbying firms in Washington DC is at all time high.

I am sad to see that guys from IV do not want to be questioned …. If any question is asked they are attacking the question itself… And they are spreading a false fear among the immigration community that – if one does not join (pay) IV …. There 485 is doomed.

Well ….

There are many among the immigration community that feel that, the lawmakers, senators and the congressmen know the problems with the EB immigration. Many of the ranking senators from both parties know much more than most of the lobbying firms. There are working on it and so one finds so many bills introduced all the time. They need not be re-educated on this.

I am NOT saying that you stop your endeavors’ … but in the lobbying efforts you should explicitly maintain that these efforts are only for members of IV. If things go your way... go ahead and take the cream …. But spare the guys who do not want to be a part of IV.

In my question, I just wanted to know what steps you have or are planning to take in this regard.

 

[immigration_us]

Techy & retrogresstio20 are from Anti-immigrant groups

If you think they are not mature enough or lacking of leadership skills, why do not do step in to help out.

Let's not criticise, it is always easier to comment on the sideline. IV is what we have. So surport them by whatever way you choose, positively.

I'm 100% sure that this is a handy work of Anti-immigrant groups.Because, If these guys are really affected by retrogression they would've got convinced about our efforts long back. These guys did the samething when we were fighting for s1932 spoiling the yahoo group (techgroup)..Guys, Please ignore these guys. These guys are not serious ,just want to break our unity..They are just playing with our anxiety/sufferings/emotions..

Techy/retrogression20,
if you don't like our leadership/efforts..don't join our group man. Because, you have a keyboard & internet access don't write crap..I know you won't succeed in your efforts to break the unity..Better luck next time..

 

[techy2468]

immigration_us .............well you can include nTan, sundar99 and hadron also to your list....

come on guys....just because some one has concern does not mean he is against you......you guys are acting like a communist group....where anything said against the party or party agenda is a crime...

 

[techy2468]

so what you are saying is that.....even though i feel that this group is too emotional and violent.....i should try to become one of its leader.....

yes it is easier to comment from the sideline.......at the same time it is easy to get carried away in emotion and spend away all your time for a process which may not yield any result.....and it may leave you burned out at the end...

i think i will start a new thread to discuss similar things...

If you think they are not mature enough or lacking of leadership skills, why do not you step in to help out.

Let's not criticise, it is always easier to comment on the sideline. IV is what we have. So surport them by whatever way you choose, positively.

 

[immigration_us]

techy2468,

Do one thing..if you are really serious..List out all your concerns/questions then post it here so that leaders will answer you. I've not seen any of your concerns are related to retorgression other doubting the efforts made by people affected by retrogression.
If you are really concerned, I'll expect your questions by end of the day..

 

[immigration_us]

immigration_us .............well you can include nTan, sundar99 and hadron also to your list....

come on guys....just because some one has concern does not mean he is against you......you guys are acting like a communist group....where anything said against the party or party agenda is a crime...

Definetly, If you are pumping your negative thoughts like this, you'll have everybody like nTan, sundar99 and hadron,etc in this discussion board start talking like you. Don't waste our/your time man..Get all the questions/concerns by end of the day today instead of giving peicemeal answers to everybody who questions you.
Once for all , gimme ur questions..

 

[Nadi]

Whats' IV take on this?

Dear IV members,

I have a few questions about the agenda of IV group. I hope I can ask questions without being the member of IV.

Labor Substitutions:
There is an important piece going on with the labor substitution laws/rules.
http://frwebgate6.access.gpo.gov/cg...action=retrieve
Labor substitution is a part of the problem that has caused this retrogression.
I do not see anywhere in Ur website that talks about it.
Are the lobby groups you have hired working on it and since it has got just some 60 days window to be commented upon ... are you planning to comment on it ... and if so are U supporting it?

Backlog Elimination:
Don't you think the vast majority of guys who have stuck in backlog between 2000 and 2002 have already moved elsewhere and these labors have become goldmine to the employer? Most of the Ghost labors in the backlog center if they are weeded out --- will automatically solve the problem itself -- a fewer application to be reviewed by the DOL, so faster approvals.

Is IV putting forward any new suggestion to lawmakers about this.... hence making the immigrants NOT exploited by the greedy employers and accelerate approvals?

Country Quota:
I find in the website that IV is demanding to increase GC numbers ... well for population heavy country this would be a small rise as they are much limited by country quota.

Is IV has plans to include -- raising the country quota also in IV agenda?

Thank you,
Nadi

 

[rbms]

Guys, there is nothing wrong in being emotional, as long as you are sincere, show the results and not let emotional take over your set objectives.
I am not sure how you say they are violent. If you are too sincere and want to spend more time (obviously you have as I can see in your post), please give your time to volunteer.

As I posted in one of the other thread,
What would somebody has to do to derail our efforts? Disguise as somebody who is genuinely interested in our cause and sow the seeds of doubt and see whether it explodes into something in their favor?
Or keep time of the volunteers busy answering such posts?

Your statemens like no need to re-educate, no neet to lobby, your 485 is doomed if you don't join amply state what your ultimate goal is. That is even more clear with our last statement in current post.

The point is you may succeed with very few, but your goals are being exposed to more and more people and I am happy for that. We can use little resistance like this in our favour.

People wake up and be smart.
Remember that numberusa(and likes) acheived their goad in 1932 without any resistence and they think that can pull this off in future if and only if they are successful derailing our efforts. They are even more afraid that people(law makers) will listen (even if it is from smaller group) if what they stand for is genuine/just cause. And threads like these are attempt to keep our efforts from growing any more strength.

Please read - only to get more determined towards our goal and know what we are fighting.
Join IV - for our own good.
Spread the word.

so what you are saying is that.....even though i feel that this group is too emotional and violent.....i should try to become one of its leader.....

yes it is easier to comment from the sideline.......at the same time it is easy to get carried away in emotion and spend away all your time for a process which may not yield any result.....and it may leave you burned out at the end...

i think i will start a new thread to discuss similar things...

 

[meg_z]

I have not seen anywhere that they have been violent.

What I was trying to say is if you are truly worried about how IV volunteers conduct themselves, affected by retrogression, and want to do (not including online posting) something about it, then you should join them, influent them with you maturity and leadership skills. You were complaining about their maturity and skills.

Thanks.

so what you are saying is that.....even though i feel that this group is too emotional and violent.....i should try to become one of its leader.....

yes it is easier to comment from the sideline.......at the same time it is easy to get carried away in emotion and spend away all your time for a process which may not yield any result.....and it may leave you burned out at the end...

i think i will start a new thread to discuss similar things...