DV 2023 All Selectees (Consular Processing - CP)

[WayneZA]

Some embassies require NIV applicants to fill out the I-134 to demonstrate they have enough personal money to support themselves should their visa application can be approved - that section you're referencing is for such applicants.

Thank you for your reply it’s been a great help appreciate. Last question. i have a large sum of money owed to me by a family member, it will be paid to me within a month or so but if that large amount of money goes into my account 2 months before the interview must I supply a letter explaining that money if it hasent been in the account for 3 to 6 months eg this money was owed to …….. (me) for let’s say rent owed from this date to that date and will a savings account statement suffice or will they want the account my salary is paid into ie my cheque account. Am I overthinking this or are these valid things that can get me denied. Because it’s easy to come up with money but how hectic are they on the trail of that money and where it comes from. Because getting someone to put money into an account and write a letter seems pretty flimsy?

 

[Sm1smom]

Thank you for your reply it’s been a great help appreciate. Last question. i have a large sum of money owed to me by a family member, it will be paid to me within a month or so but if that large amount of money goes into my account 2 months before the interview must I supply a letter explaining that money if it hasent been in the account for 3 to 6 months eg this money was owed to …….. (me) for let’s say rent owed from this date to that date and will a savings account statement suffice or will they want the account my salary is paid into ie my cheque account. Am I overthinking this or are these valid things that can get me denied. Because it’s easy to come up with money but how hectic are they on the trail of that money and where it comes from. Because getting someone to put money into an account and write a letter seems pretty flimsy?

They don’t care whether it is your savings or current account bank statements you’re presenting. If you’re going to have a sudden large sum of money deposited into the account just before your interview, you’ll need to be prepared to convincingly explain the source of that money - they’re aware people sometimes borrow money and dump into the a/c for the purpose of the interview.

 

[WayneZA]

I guess that’s just logic. Thanks again for your time. You have been a big help!! Have a great day further.

 

[Kibs2023]

Good morning dear members, hope you're all fine. I also have a concern regarding my US sponsor, he said he is willing to provide all the requirements by May but he said that as far as the tax returns are concerned, he said he will only send them to the embassy directly. He said his accounts contains sensitive information so he will send the returns to the embassy, do you think this will work?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Sm1smom]

Good morning dear members, hope you're all fine. I also have a concern regarding my US sponsor, he said he is willing to provide all the requirements by May but he said that as far as the tax returns are concerned, he said he will only send them to the embassy directly. He said his accounts contains sensitive information so he will send the returns to the embassy, do you think this will work?
Thanks in advance.

No, that will not work.

 

[Kibs2023]

No, that will not work.
[/QUOTE
Thanks for the advice

 

[Samusoni]

Good morning dear members, hope you're all fine. I also have a concern regarding my US sponsor, he said he is willing to provide all the requirements by May but he said that as far as the tax returns are concerned, he said he will only send them to the embassy directly. He said his accounts contains sensitive information so he will send the returns to the embassy, do you think this will work?
Thanks in advance.

I don't blame your sponsor for saying this. Tax returns contain sensitive personally identifiable information (PIIs) that, in this day and age, we are strongly recommended to protect by all means. Now, for the affidavit of support, we are asked to send tax information in the open, and to be handled by third parties who do not have any business seeing my PIIs. Very unfair process...I kinda think it is meant to discourage potential sponsors from getting sponsorships There is absolutely no reason why they cannot ask the sponsor to email, upload, or fax their tax information (even the i134 form itself) to the embassy. For Ukraine refugees, they are using an electronic i134 filing systems...I suspect because they knew less sponsors would be willing to expose their PIIs to strangers.

This is no consolation to you though. All you can do is to pass on the information to the potential sponsor, and if they are still unwilling to help, look for another sponsor.

 

[CTNZ]

I have some questions about the I-134:

1. I am from New Zealand and will be interviewing in Auckland (just for background in case it matters). How much money (USD amount) do I need to show the interviewer so they are satisfied I won't become a public charge in the USA. And do I still need to fill out the I-134 myself to list all my assets etc. in this instance? Or just take bank statements.

2. Part 2. 13 in the I-134 is for the beneficiaries income. The last column in the table is for "Income contribution to the beneficiary annually". Regardless of whether i'm filling this out for myself or having a friend in the USA filling it out as a financial supporter, should I list my current annual income in this section from my job in New Zealand? Kind of seems irrelevant as if I get the visa and move to USA i'll be leaving that job. Or is this only for people who are already living in the USA on a different visa? In which case do I enter $0 here?

 

[tomb2389]

What happens if only 1 person gets 221g on the Interview day (assuming it's not main applicant)? Will the main applicant still get his visa or whole family's case is put on 221g until everyone is cleared?

 

[Sm1smom]

I have some questions about the I-134:

1. I am from New Zealand and will be interviewing in Auckland (just for background in case it matters). How much money (USD amount) do I need to show the interviewer so they are satisfied I won't become a public charge in the USA. And do I still need to fill out the I-134 myself to list all my assets etc. in this instance? Or just take bank statements.

2. Part 2. 13 in the I-134 is for the beneficiaries income. The last column in the table is for "Income contribution to the beneficiary annually". Regardless of whether i'm filling this out for myself or having a friend in the USA filling it out as a financial supporter, should I list my current annual income in this section from my job in New Zealand? Kind of seems irrelevant as if I get the visa and move to USA i'll be leaving that job. Or is this only for people who are already living in the USA on a different visa? In which case do I enter $0 here?

1. You’re not expected to fill out the I-134 for yourself. Plan on taking your bank statements along.
2. Your income on the I-134 will be 0 because it will not be ongoing income. The section will be applicable to someone already based in the US on some other kind of NIV.

 

[Sm1smom]

What happens if only 1 person gets 221g on the Interview day (assuming it's not main applicant)? Will the main applicant still get his visa or whole family's case is put on 221g until everyone is cleared?

Technically speaking if a derivative gets put on 221g refusal, the main applicant and other derivatives should be issued with their visas if there’s no other issue with their case. I however do vaguely remember one or two cases in the past where the visa for the main selectee was not issued until after the derivative cleared their AP.

 

[Samusoni]

1. You’re not expected to fill out the I-134 for yourself. Plan on taking your bank statements along.
2. Your income on the I-134 will be 0 because it will not be ongoing income. The section will be applicable to someone already based in the US on some other kind of NIV.

Is response in 1. correct? From @Britsimon's video, I thought one could complete the i-134 for themselves. The i-134 instruction to the first entry also say "You may file this form on behalf of yourself or on behalf of a...". And the question on the i-134 itself is "I am filing this form on behalf of: Myself as the beneficiary. ..."

So, I think you are expected to complete the form for yourself, unless you have a US sponsor. Again, I may be wrong, try to consult the embassy instructions, they may be more specific.

 

[Sm1smom]

Is response in 1. correct? From @Britsimon's video, I thought one could complete the i-134 for themselves. The i-134 instruction to the first entry also say "You may file this form on behalf of yourself or on behalf of a...". And the question on the i-134 itself is "I am filing this form on behalf of: Myself as the beneficiary. ..."

So, I think you are expected to complete the form for yourself, unless you have a US sponsor. Again, I may be wrong, try to consult the embassy instructions, they may be more specific.

Yes it is correct, and I fully stand by it. The instructions on the new I-134 Declaration of Financial Support is originally meant for NIV applicants. You omitted pertinent section of the instruction you quoted. The entire section says: 'You may file this form on behalf of yourself or on behalf of a B, F, or M nonimmigrant requesting extension of stay or change of status" - meaning the form was originally designed for use in support of NIV applications. Yes, it further says the form may be requested by DOS in certain circumstances (such as DV, K1, or SB). It isn't unusual for USCIS to provide conflicting or unclear instructions on their forms for all applicable circumstances. Form I-485 is an example which readily comes to mind. The instructions on that form says DV based AOS applications require no financial documents, yet the IOs routinely ask for financial documents at the time of the interview.

Someone applying for an IV listing their current annual income (earned outside the US) to demonstrate self sufficiency makes makes no sense considering that income will not be ongoing upon relocation to the US. Using that income to demonstrate self sufficiency makes sense in support of a NIV application. This is the same reason current income earned outside the US cannot be listed on form I-864 for family sponsorship for instance because that income will not be ongoing, unless the income is from a US company and the person being sponsored will continue with the same employer following their relocation to the US.

If Simon is recommending folks could fill out the form themselves as against having a sponsor fill it out (I haven't watched the video, so I really cannot speak to it), my guess is he's making that call as an exception in certain cases.

Take a look at section (3)(U) Use of Form I-134, Affidavit of Support of the 9 FAM 302.8 (U) PUBLIC CHARGE - INA 212(A)(4), the DOS Manual for COs (this section deals with the certain circumstance the DOS may require the use of an I-134 referenced earlier on above) - it talks about "the sponsor", nothing about the applicant for an IV filling out the form themselves.

 

[Samusoni]

Yes it is correct, and I fully stand by it. The instructions on the new I-134 Declaration of Financial Support is originally meant for NIV applicants. You omitted pertinent section of the instruction you quoted. The entire section says: 'You may file this form on behalf of yourself or on behalf of a B, F, or M nonimmigrant requesting extension of stay or change of status" - meaning the form was originally designed for use in support of NIV applications. Yes, it further says the form may be requested by DOS in certain circumstances (such as DV, K1, or SB). It isn't unusual for USCIS to provide conflicting or unclear instructions on their forms for all applicable circumstances. Form I-485 is an example which readily comes to mind. The instructions on that form says DV based AOS applications require no financial documents, yet the IOs routinely ask for financial documents at the time of the interview.

Someone applying for an IV listing their current annual income (earned outside the US) to demonstrate self sufficiency makes makes no sense considering that income will not be ongoing upon relocation to the US. Using that income to demonstrate self sufficiency makes sense in support of a NIV application. This is the same reason current income earned outside the US cannot be listed on form I-864 for family sponsorship for instance because that income will not be ongoing, unless the income is from a US company and the person being sponsored will continue with the same employer following their relocation to the US.

If Simon is recommending folks could fill out the form themselves as against having a sponsor fill it out (I haven't watched the video, so I really cannot speak to it), my guess is he's making that call as an exception in certain cases.

Take a look at section (3)(U) Use of Form I-134, Affidavit of Support of the 9 FAM 302.8 (U) PUBLIC CHARGE - INA 212(A)(4), the DOS Manual for COs (this section deals with the certain circumstance the DOS may require the use of an I-134 referenced earlier on above) - it talks about "the sponsor", nothing about the applicant for an IV filling out the form themselves.

Thank you for the enlightenment...would certainly not have known the original intention of i-134 They should include footnotes for simpletons like me I hope this puts the original question to rest then.

And, yes, there many folks that I know that continue get income from outside the US since their relocation.

 

[Sm1smom]

And, yes, there many folks that I know that continue get income from outside the US since their relocation.

Main annual income as in not working for a US employer, or some side hustle?

 

[Samusoni]

Main annual income as in not working for a US employer, or some side hustle?

Yes, main annual income.

 

[Sm1smom]

Yes, main annual income.

AFAIK, the expectation is for a US based person to be working for a US based employer/company. That is how to contribute to the US economy.

So these folks are not paying US Federal and State (where applicable) income taxes? They’re also not making social security contributions? And how are their foreign employers handling the US taxations and contributions? That also means they have no employer based medical coverage - how are they handling that? I’m curious to know how these many folks you know of are handling the above.

 

[Samusoni]

AFAIK, the expectation is for a US based person to be working for a US based employer/company. That is how to contribute to the US economy.

So these folks are not paying US Federal and State (where applicable) income taxes? They’re also not making social security contributions? And how are their foreign employers handling the US taxations and contributions? That also means they have no employer based medical coverage - how are they handling that? I’m curious to know how these many folks you know of are handling the above.

Sorry had to cheat I asked. Apparently the IRS allows a significant tax break, so he effectively pays minimal taxes. The other, who works for a Japanese company (post-pandemic), says there is a tax treaty that allows him to pay his taxes in Japan and not be double taxed in the US. I could also ask others as well, but all of this is second hand information (hearsay) as I did not experience it myself.

 

[Sm1smom]

Sorry had to cheat I asked. Apparently the IRS allows a significant tax break, so he effectively pays minimal taxes. The other, who works for a Japanese company (post-pandemic), says there is a tax treaty that allows him to pay his taxes in Japan and not be double taxed in the US. I could also ask others as well, but all of this is second hand information (hearsay) as I did not experience it myself.

Thanks for the updates. Yes, I'm aware of tax treaties between the US and some countries which guards against double taxing. The provision however is meant for LPRs and USCs based and working in other countries outside of the US as there is a requirement to LPRs and USCs to report on worldwide income. That provision is not meant for folks residing in the US working for non-US companies - they are paying taxes to those countries while not paying taxes to the US government while enjoying benefits in the US funded by other US tax payers.

Anyway, this is digressing into IRS related taxation issues, and not immigration. The bottom line is AFAIK, the foreign income of an intending immigrant is usually not taken into consideration because the expectation is that income will not continue once the immigrant relocates to the US.

 

[Samusoni]

Thanks for the updates. Yes, I'm aware of tax treaties between the US and some countries which guards against double taxing. The provision however is meant for LPRs and USCs based and working in other countries outside of the US as there is a requirement to LPRs and USCs to report on worldwide income. That provision is not meant for folks residing in the US working for non-US companies - they are paying taxes to those countries while not paying taxes to the US government while enjoying benefits in the US funded by other US tax payers.

Anyway, this is digressing into IRS related taxation issues, and not immigration. The bottom line is AFAIK, the foreign income of an intending immigrant is usually not taken into consideration because the expectation is that income will not continue once the immigrant relocates to the US.

Yes, we are digressing. I will let it rest. As I stated earlier, all I can do is ask, I don't have first hand knowledge in either scenario.

I guess the original question could be conclusively answered by the embassy that handles the case, as they can provide specific proofs of financial requirements...since they are the ones that adjudicate the case. The embassy that I have dealt with is very responsive to email questions.