DV 2017 OC Selectees

[2014hopeful]

Awesome thanks! Would be great if you could share your experience on how to network/find a job, how Australian law degrees/lawyers are viewed etc. There isn't much guidance out there for us unfortunately.

If you don't mind, how long did it take you to find a job? And are there many jobs that don't require the bar exam?

Well, my case is a bit peculiar because I joined my current firm in one of their overseas offices and then transferred to DC (when they found out I had a green card), but my impression is that there are lots of firms willing to employ Australian lawyers. In fact, I've met at least a dozen or so here in DC. It all depends on your level of experience and area of practice though. If you have Australian top tier/international firm experience in finance or M&A, you're all set. There are lots of jobs out there, even if you just cold call the firms. My experience (and that of my partner) is that people are a lot more willing here to give you a go if you show a bit of initiative and put yourself out there. The more years of experience you have behind you, the better. Disputes jobs are a little trickier to come by and will often require that you pass the bar, although my own firm doesn't need me to be licensed here because I'm practising international arbitration, which is by nature cross-border and requires no particular bar admission.

If you find that you're struggling to find work, I would suggest an LLM, if you think you can get into a top 14 law schools here. A job at the end of it certainly wouldn't be guaranteed, but it would make the transition easier, particularly with working rights, which would set you apart from your peers. It's just a shame that law school in this country is so prohibitively expensive!

 

[MsNoonz]

Hey fam, quick question. I received the email from the SydConsulate detailing the next steps for paying the fee, obtaining a physical green card and the SSN.

I can't actually recall if I ticked the box on the DS-260 requesting SSN card (I believe there were Yes or No options). I tried to log back into CEAC but receive an error message - presumably because my visa has now been issued.

Does anyone know the best way forward? Do I contact KCC or should I send a request through the USTravelDocs portal?

As always, your guidance is greatly appreciated!!

 

[EmilyW]

It might just be easier to wait until you activate. The SSN only takes a couple of weeks to arrive. Alternatively, when you get there, you can always brave the SSO and ask them face to face. Just bring a book and a lot of patience.

 

[connectedspace]

Ouch! Hopefully it doesn't take you too long to get back on your feet and start enjoying some of the great food around you

I have noticed a trend of posters on here saying they're heading for NY. I'm curious as to the reasoning. Is it because its the biggest, flashiest city? Or is it because of particular career aspirations?

It's a truly fabulous place. It's always 'on' and it has the best of everything in the world, available all the time. Want indie cinemateque at 3 AM? No problem. Want to see the world's best jazz musicians after midnight, on a whim, at a little place down the street? Yep. And the liberal (in the American sense) culture is an attraction for many.

It's also enormously expensive. Sydney doesn't have a patch on the place. We're talking $4000 a month rent for a small 1br in the amenable part of town. If you want to buy in, prepare to pay $3000 per square foot for a condominium (like strata title), or to have $500k down for a $1.2m 1br cooperative (company title). Your maintenance fees and property taxes, if you buy such a place, will likely run $2000 a month.

There are cheaper places in the city, but they don't have the 'always on' thing. They're largely bedroom communities connected to prime Manhattan (below 59th St) by the subway. Most are still nice, like the Upper West Side. But the less you pay, the more you'll be commuting. Most New Yorkers are riding that subway for hours and hours each day.

I personally love it, have lived there, and would live there still if I was a multimillionaire.

Some people don't have a choice.

If you're in fashion, media, design, visual arts, publishing or related fields then it's NYC or nothing. Similarly, if you want to be a the tippy top of finance, law, insurance and so on then NYC is the game. For such people, if their salaries aren't amazing, then NYC quickly turns into a grind.

(It's a similar story for four other cities: SF is where you go if you want to be at the top of the tech game. But it's also monstrously expensive and, in my opinion, nothing too special as a city. Then there's LA for TV and film. Boston for eds and meds. DC for politics. All expensive and grindy for folk of modest means.)

And then, for a certain subset, living quarters mean status. As in, only the best. For them, it's Elite Coastal City (usually NYC) or nowhere.

Others do have a choice. There are a lot of high-wage, low COL cities out there if you're willing to take the step down.

For instance, if you're to work in a prop shop, commodity outfit or second-tier insurance company, then Chicago will likely give you 90% of the pay and 30% of the cost of living. (It'll also only give you 30% as much city, but it's a good 30%.) It's where my wife and I ended up. She's in medical research and I'm settling into risk analysis.

She's earning easily as much as she would in NYC, SF, DC or Boston. We live in a giant condo right in the middle of town and are so close to things (jazz, blues, symphony, ballet, galleries, theatre) that we don't even need to take the subway. And for our NY fix, we can stay in a swish hotel in the Village, for a month each year, and still end up way, way, way ahead.

Other second-tier cities (usually in flyover country) offer similar COL/income ratios, if more limited in options. Philly, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, Columbus OH, Denver and Portland OR are worth checking out. Seattle is, too, if you're in STEM.

I've left out politics. If high taxes, large public industries, and wealth redistribution grind your gears then NYC, and any other Democratic state/city combination, will be hell on earth. In that case, Dallas, Houston, Raleigh, Charlotte, Nashville and so on are the way to go.

Hope some of that was in some way helpful!

 

[EmilyW]

Awesome post, @connectedspace.

 

[BenCreswick]

Great post @connectedspace

One thing though, don't let those quoted apartment rents keep you down. There are plenty of two beds for $2,500 per calendar month. I just got one in Brooklyn! The $4,000 I would guess is Manhattan somewhere in the Village. New York has thousands of cheaper apartments, you'll just make a compromise one way or another: no laundry, no outside, climb over the bed to the built in, more than five blocks to the subway, the bus (okay that's non-negotiable no one wants the bus). Cheaper still across the Hudson but then you need two trains.

But with no credit or new credit the landlord will ask you for some crazy, crazy money up front. Mine was two months and security meaning $7,500 cash in one transaction. That's no brokers fee which is often another month or two on top of it. There's heaps of no fee apartments though, they're just competitive. I would have sublet if there was no partner. Subletting is totally legal and easy to do here!

This isn't meant to sound contradictory to Connected, I just want y'all to know there are options!

 

[lottic]

Great post @connectedspace

One thing though, don't let those quoted apartment rents keep you down. There are plenty of two beds for $2,500 per calendar month. I just got one in Brooklyn! The $4,000 I would guess is Manhattan somewhere in the Village. New York has thousands of cheaper apartments, you'll just make a compromise one way or another: no laundry, no outside, climb over the bed to the built in, more than five blocks to the subway, the bus (okay that's non-negotiable no one wants the bus). Cheaper still across the Hudson but then you need two trains.

But with no credit or new credit the landlord will ask you for some crazy, crazy money up front. Mine was two months and security meaning $7,500 cash in one transaction. That's no brokers fee which is often another month or two on top of it. There's heaps of no fee apartments though, they're just competitive. I would have sublet if there was no partner. Subletting is totally legal and easy to do here!

This isn't meant to sound contradictory to Connected, I just want y'all to know there are options!

Thanks for sharing! I read somewhere that they use the annual salary = monthly rent x 40 rule?
Do the landlords strictly apply that rule?

Also, any chance of renting a place before you get a job offer (like right after you make your move over) if you can pay the 2 months rent + security?

 

[connectedspace]

Great post @connectedspace

One thing though, don't let those quoted apartment rents keep you down. There are plenty of two beds for $2,500 per calendar month. I just got one in Brooklyn! The $4,000 I would guess is Manhattan somewhere in the Village. New York has thousands of cheaper apartments, you'll just make a compromise one way or another: no laundry, no outside, climb over the bed to the built in, more than five blocks to the subway, the bus (okay that's non-negotiable no one wants the bus). Cheaper still across the Hudson but then you need two trains.

But with no credit or new credit the landlord will ask you for some crazy, crazy money up front. Mine was two months and security meaning $7,500 cash in one transaction. That's no brokers fee which is often another month or two on top of it. There's heaps of no fee apartments though, they're just competitive. I would have sublet if there was no partner. Subletting is totally legal and easy to do here!

This isn't meant to sound contradictory to Connected, I just want y'all to know there are options!

You're right -- there are plenty for less than that. But as you say, there's always a compromise somewhere.

I suppose I was anticipating sticker shock for folks who were thinking of the apartment they get in inner Sydney for $700 a week. That is: clean, airy, and often has an in-unit laundry and a parking space. That won't happen in Manhattan below 20th, or even 59th.

If you're willing to live in Yorkville on the far UES, or up in Harlem, or further up in the Heights, then you can rent a decent place for $2000 a month or even less. Similarly for Queens and further out in Brooklyn. Bronx is even better value. But there you'll be commuting. I believe Brooklyn Heights and Williamsburg give a little more space for your money, but then you're on the L train or cycling over the bridges.

Anyway, congrats on the move and the apartment. NYC is a truly peerless experience.

And it's great to see you, @EmilyW ! Judging by your signature it looks like Charlotte is working out great for you.

Congratulations to everyone here on your DV win and your decision to move. It's a long road but it's worth it.

 

[connectedspace]

Thanks for sharing! I read somewhere that they use the annual salary = monthly rent x 40 rule?
Do the landlords strictly apply that rule?

Also, any chance of renting a place before you get a job offer (like right after you make your move over) if you can pay the 2 months rent + security?

The thing about landlords in NYC is they're a nervous bunch. Tenants are very hard to evict. Once you're in, it can take six months of rent dereliction and active property destruction to get you out. If you're paying your rent occasionally and your lease is still running then you're basically un-shiftable.

The the only thing they have over you is your credit score: if you skip rent then they can ruin it. So as priority one, they're looking for people with high credit scores. As priority two, they're looking for people with steady, well-paid jobs; hence the 40x rule, which is definitely a thing. As priority three, they're looking for guarantors they can chase.

If you come in with none of those things then you're going to need to do some legwork and sell yourself. If you present well, you look and like the kind of person who pays rent religiously and you come with a lot of cash up front (sometimes up to six months rent) then you might have a chance, credit score and job notwithstanding.

A variable in all this is the heat of the market. Right now, you're in luck because the NY rental market is cool. It's better for renters now than it has been since the GFC. So if you have several months rent, some nice clothes and good job prospects then your strike rate will be high. And it's likely to remain like this for months to come.

Another variable is brokers. Brokers list the unit for the owner. These are another group of people you need to impress. Sometimes the owner doesn't have one. These are called no-fee apartments. You can see the difference if you search with a tool like streeteasy.com. Here's a good article on brokers, what they do and the complications they add.

Yet another variable is individual landlords vs. institutional ones. In Sydney, most landlords are human beings who own one or more properties. There are plenty of those in NYC and they're your best bet. They make up most of the stock on sites like streeteasy. If their place has been sitting empty then they want to rent it now.

Institutional investors are companies that own entire buildings. You'll be dealing with a professional tenant-getter-vetter. In the cool market we have, you might be okay with an institutional if you have good prospects and a bunch of cash. These places often have leasing offices you can walk into and smile at the staff. But they have strict rules and tend to be inflexible. Examples include Stuyvesant Town on Manhattan's east side and a multitude of other huge buildings.

Now, if the market heats up again then things could get ugly. An Aussie I know applied for a rental a couple of years ago with no credit score and no job. In the end, the landlord gave him a one year lease: he paid the entire year up front, plus a month's rent as broker fee, plus six months security deposit -- which they demanded in case he decided to stay forever.

NYC is a harsh mistress.

Hope that was in some way helpful. That article I linked to is one of an excellent series that will answer your questions better than I ever could.

EDIT: you mentioned two months rent. That will be tough. This is often the bare minimum a tenant with good credit can expect to provide. Ie: one month security (which you will get back) plus one month broker fee (which you will not). The usual is three, or even four. People in your situation might have to pay even more up front, unfortunately.

 

[lottic]

The thing about landlords in NYC is they're a nervous bunch. Tenants are very hard to evict. Once you're in, it can take six months of rent dereliction and active property destruction to get you out. If you're paying your rent occasionally and your lease is still running then you're basically un-shiftable.

The the only thing they have over you is your credit score: if you skip rent then they can ruin it. So as priority one, they're looking for people with high credit scores. As priority two, they're looking for people with steady, well-paid jobs; hence the 40x rule, which is definitely a thing. As priority three, they're looking for guarantors they can chase.

If you come in with none of those things then you're going to need to do some legwork and sell yourself. If you present well, you look and like the kind of person who pays rent religiously and you come with a lot of cash up front (sometimes up to six months rent) then you might have a chance, credit score and job notwithstanding.

A variable in all this is the heat of the market. Right now, you're in luck because the NY rental market is cool. It's better for renters now than it has been since the GFC. So if you have several months rent, some nice clothes and good job prospects then your strike rate will be high. And it's likely to remain like this for months to come.

Another variable is brokers. Brokers list the unit for the owner. These are another group of people you need to impress. Sometimes the owner doesn't have one. These are called no-fee apartments. You can see the difference if you search with a tool like streeteasy.com. Here's a good article on brokers, what they do and the complications they add.

Yet another variable is individual landlords vs. institutional ones. In Sydney, most landlords are human beings who own one or more properties. There are plenty of those in NYC and they're your best bet. They make up most of the stock on sites like streeteasy. If their place has been sitting empty then they want to rent it now.

Institutional investors are companies that own entire buildings. You'll be dealing with a professional tenant-getter-vetter. In the cool market we have, you might be okay with an institutional if you have good prospects and a bunch of cash. These places often have leasing offices you can walk into and smile at the staff. But they have strict rules and tend to be inflexible. Examples include Stuyvesant Town on Manhattan's east side and a multitude of other huge buildings.

Now, if the market heats up again then things could get ugly. An Aussie I know applied for a rental a couple of years ago with no credit score and no job. In the end, the landlord gave him a one year lease: he paid the entire year up front, plus a month's rent as broker fee, plus six months security deposit -- which they demanded in case he decided to stay forever.

NYC is a harsh mistress.

Hope that was in some way helpful. That article I linked to is one of an excellent series that will answer your questions better than I ever could.

EDIT: you mentioned two months rent. That will be tough. This is often the bare minimum a tenant with good credit can expect to provide. Ie: one month security (which you will get back) plus one month broker fee (which you will not). The usual is three, or even four. People in your situation might have to pay even more up front, unfortunately.

@connectedspace Extremely helpful! Thanks!

So best bet for all DV winners who's moving to nyc with no job - a year's worth of rent in cash (minimum USD 30,000 if $2500/month), look good, dress well, go for no fee apartments, and individual landlords?

Of course also researching the area you want to live in before committing, since you could be paying more than 6 months rent upfront!

 

[connectedspace]

@connectedspace Extremely helpful! Thanks!

So best bet for all DV winners who's moving to nyc with no job - a year's worth of rent in cash (minimum USD 30,000 if $2500/month), look good, dress well, go for no fee apartments, and individual landlords?

Of course also researching the area you want to live in before committing, since you could be paying more than 6 months rent upfront!

I don't know that's the best bet. You could get lucky, and in this market that's easier than before. But yes, definitely research your neighborhood. One thing to look out for is walking distance to the subway. It's one thing walking 1200 metres on a balmy spring day but quite another doing it in -10 degree chill.

 

[EmilyW]

@connectedspace , Charlotte has been good to us. We live lakefront and the weather is warm enough that we were able to start back kayaking and paddle-boarding on the weekend. Kids are settled in school, have made friends, and we've found a pretty tight knit community of Aussies here in Charlotte which helps with any homesickness.

 

[connectedspace]

@connectedspace , Charlotte has been good to us. We live lakefront and the weather is warm enough that we were able to start back kayaking and paddle-boarding on the weekend. Kids are settled in school, have made friends, and we've found a pretty tight knit community of Aussies here in Charlotte which helps with any homesickness.

That's wonderful to hear! It's a beautiful part of the world.

 

[lucamodric]

hi

This is an interesting forum and has provided me with all the information needed.

I had a bit of a delay in submitting my DS260 and only just submitted on the 1st of March. As per previous forum posts, I have read that the average processing time is roughly around 4-5 months and once the backlog starts clearing the processing times are roughly 3 months at max.

My case number is 51x and was wondering by when should I expect to hear about the 2NL?
Maybe June/July?

Would be grateful if any of you would be able to let me know!

 

[Britsimon]

hi

This is an interesting forum and has provided me with all the information needed.

I had a bit of a delay in submitting my DS260 and only just submitted on the 1st of March. As per previous forum posts, I have read that the average processing time is roughly around 4-5 months and once the backlog starts clearing the processing times are roughly 3 months at max.

My case number is 51x and was wondering by when should I expect to hear about the 2NL?
Maybe June/July?

Would be grateful if any of you would be able to let me know!

The processing time at this time will be short. But, let's say it only takes 2 full months, then you might get a 2NL in the month of May, which means a July interview. That's possible, but it might be amonth later than that, you just have to wait and see. The fastest DS260 processing I have known was a matter of less than one month, but that was last year, so that would be an "outside" chance.

 

[lucamodric]

The processing time at this time will be short. But, let's say it only takes 2 full months, then you might get a 2NL in the month of May, which means a July interview. That's possible, but it might be amonth later than that, you just have to wait and see. The fastest DS260 processing I have known was a matter of less than one month, but that was last year, so that would be an "outside" chance.

Thank you very much!

 

[RejectedSpark]

Yay, 2nl finally arrived!!

 

[lottic]

Got my 2NL too!

DS resubmitted early October

 

[socialcasualty]

Now I'm getting nervous! Hahaha! I still haven't got my 2NL. I'll sit on it for a few days before I start stressing though! Yay for those who have theirs!

 

[Jasse]

Hi,

My case no is 8xx. I have not resubmitted DS260 and plan to resubmit very late in April 2017 (29th or 30th). I hope this re-submission will still be okay for interview in August and September? Just checking now, if there is a chance if DS260 is resubmitted in late April will ruin my chances?

Initially submitted DS260 in May 2016 and then unlock requested in August 2016.