DV-2015 winners from Asia with CN 10,000+

[Britsimon]

Mr Britsimon let's suppose for a moment you're in control of the dv program, you can change the rules, anything..

What would your approach to these countries be? Or would you just sit by idly like kcc is doing now watching as iran and nepal play in the field while roa sit in the substitute players bench and remain unused till the whistle blows?

Good question.

I would create some sort of test of character. It would go something like this.

I would not want to deal with countries, because what difference does a country make in the big picture. So, I would draw lines on a map of the world, and call them regions. I would then set up a competition which costs nothing to enter, and make the rules fair so that every person who entered the competition had an equal chance for the prize, but obviously there would gave to be a limit to the prizes I could give out. I would probably have to come up with some way to decide who got the prizes, like a rank order or something like that.

Then we would see who would get off their backsides and fill in a simple form. If more people did that from some countries than others, fine, it just shows the countries with fewer entries couldn't be bothered. Fine by me. Then I would start handing out the prizes until they ran out. I wouldn't care what countries the winners were from, they are all people from the same region who had the same chance.

At some point the prizes would run out. Some people would understand and accept the rules of the game they had played. I would give those people another chance in a later year. Some other people would whine endlessly and demonstrate cognitive dissonance about the rules of the game. I would make a note of their rank number, and make sure I didn't pick them again because this was, after all, a test of character.

Something like that....

 

[siliconeslinger]

Good question.

I would create some sort of test of character. It would go something like this.

I would not want to deal with countries, because what difference does a country make in the big picture. So, I would draw lines on a map of the world, and call them regions. I would then set up a competition which costs nothing to enter, and make the rules fair so that every person who entered the competition had an equal chance for the prize, but obviously there would gave to be a limit to the prizes I could give out. I would probably have to come up with some way to decide who got the prizes, like a rank order or something like that.

Then we would see who would get off their backsides and fill in a simple form. If more people did that from some countries than others, fine, it just shows the countries with fewer entries couldn't be bothered. Fine by me. Then I would start handing out the prizes until they ran out. I wouldn't care what countries the winners were from, they are all people from the same region who had the same chance.

At some point the prizes would run out. Some people would understand and accept the rules of the game they had played. I would give those people another chance in a later year. Some other people would whine endlessly and demonstrate cognitive dissonance about the rules of the game. I would make a note of their rank number, and make sure I didn't pick them again because this was, after all, a test of character.

Something like that....

is this some kind of sarcasm or what ?

bloody unbelieveable

 

[Britsimon]

is this some kind of sarcasm or what ?

bloody unbelieveable

So, you don't like my version. How would you do it?

 

[siliconeslinger]

So, you don't like my version. How would you do it?

Your version is no different from what kcc is currently doing with the addition of "noting their case number and not allowing them to enter again next year"

Me? Simple... Separate their vb from the beginning..reduce the country limit in order for the visa to not run out before the countries hit the limit. The country limit is adjusted in proportion to the amount of entries per fiscal year

In other words, each fiscal year has different country limit as opposed to the one-size-fits-all 7%

 

[Britsimon]

Your version is no different from what kcc is currently doing with the addition of "noting their case number and not allowing them to enter again next year"

Me? Simple... Separate their vb from the beginning..reduce the country limit in order for the visa to not run out before the countries hit the limit. The country limit is adjusted in proportion to the amount of entries per fiscal year

Why do you think they should care what country the winners come from?

 

[siliconeslinger]

Why do you think they should care what country the winners come from?

Its not about the issue of whether they give a s*** about what country they're from.. The name of the program is "Diversity Visa" and diversity means comprised of a mix of many things... The reality seems to suggest otherwise

Otherwise, take the diversity part out of the programs name..

 

[siliconeslinger]

Too many Iranians and Nepalese taking up visas... About time they get disqualified (5-year 50k quota)

 

[Britsimon]

Its not about the issue of whether they give a s*** about what country they're from.. The name of the program is "Diversity Visa" and diversity means comprised of a mix of many things... The reality seems to suggest otherwise

Otherwise, take the diversity part out of the programs name..

Diversity as defined by the point and rules of the DV lottery is regional. Indonesian or Nepali - it is all the same to the USA, they are just Asians.

 

[Sensei-san]

now i need to find a new house (sold my house to fund for the never-came-into-fruition interview fees) as well as find an excuse for people asking me when i will move to the states

Dasivdaniya

I am thinking of going to indonesia and becoming real estate magnate, since houses prices are comparable to interview fees.
Why do you keep saying "Dosvidaiya"? The more dramatic way to say goodbye in Russian slanguage would be "Dosvidos".

 

[Sensei-san]

Also now that the waiting game is over, i might as well expose my cn in its entirity since there's no point in keeping it a secret, useless number anyways..

13.623

Since the game is over, why not coming out clean about the father-son-daughter confusion?

 

[guestgulkan]

So, you don't like my version. How would you do it?

No one is asking me, but that's never stopped me before.

If it was me, I'd totally do it from the perspective of what's best for the USA. Therefore I'd get rid of two things - diversity and lottery.

My 50,000 visas would go to the 50,000 best candidates regardless of region. People with useful skills in engineering, IT, science, chemistry, PhDs, etc from any country. A little similar to H1B except you don't need employer sponsorship.

 

[Britsimon]

No one is asking me, but that's never stopped me before.

If it was me, I'd totally do it from the perspective of what's best for the USA. Therefore I'd get rid of two things - diversity and lottery.

My 50,000 visas would go to the 50,000 best candidates regardless of region. People with useful skills in engineering, IT, science, chemistry, PhDs, etc from any country. A little similar to H1B except you don't need employer sponsorship.

Interesting. But someone has to decide what is useful, and that has previously been defined as qualified, and wanted by a company. Frankly that is a pretty good measure of "useful", and much better than someone who is highly qualified but still useless ( there are plenty of those).

Then there are others who are useful, but not qualified ( and again there are plenty of those).

Then there are those that offer other things such as artists who enrich our lives.

Or how about those who serve the community.

Or how about those that help our military, often putting their lives at risk and then can't get a visa to escape from the retribution they will face once the military have gone.

It's a never ending. Too many deserving cases...

 

[siliconeslinger]

I am thinking of going to indonesia and becoming real estate magnate, since houses prices are comparable to interview fees.
Why do you keep saying "Dosvidaiya"? The more dramatic way to say goodbye in Russian slanguage would be "Dosvidos".

Interview fees + medical checkup fees + elis fees + airplane ticket fees + bank account statement for the co

All but bank account multiplied by 3..(me wife son)

 

[alex2014]

Since the "diversity" is based on the region(AF, EU, AS,.....), then the visa quota for each country should also be based on its according region quota rather than 7% of the world. In Accounting, 20% of shares means a significant effect. Therefore, I would limit visa quota of each country to 20% of its region if other competitors exist.
20% of 8,500 for Nepal, 20% of 8,500 for Iran, and 60% for ROA. IMHO, the true meaning of "diversity" is more matched in this way.

Can the "diversity" be achieved without dividing quota to regions? By the limit of 7% of world visa for each country, I think, it can. I really don't know why visa quota were needed to be separated to regions in the first place. (Of course, some will argue that it is by law) Can't it be regarded as a world pool? The suffering effect on ROA from Nepal and Iran can be diluted by not grouping countries into the region.

 

[SusieQQQ]

Since the "diversity" is based on the region(AF, EU, AS,.....), then the visa quota for each country should also be based on its according region quota rather than 7% of the world. In Accounting, 20% of shares means a significant effect. Therefore, I would limit visa quota of each country to 20% of its region if other competitors exist.
20% of 8,500 for Nepal, 20% of 8,500 for Iran, and 60% for ROA. IMHO, the true meaning of "diversity" is more matched in this way.

So to illustrate your argument, because you need to be able to take extremes into account when you propose things: if you have 3 million entries each from Nepal and Iran and 5000 from the rest of Asia, for example, then: any ROA entry is guaranteed selection, Nepalese and Iranian applicants have a negligible chance of being selected, and Asia as a whole is under quota. Yet somehow this is a fair approach?

 

[SusieQQQ]

Did someone miss the DoS warnings about not making any irrevocable decisions like buying non refundable air tickets or selling houses or resigning jobs until they actually have a visa in hand?

From the DVselectee site and as I recall on the instructions too -

It is important to remember that selection does not guarantee you will receive a visa.

It is important that you do not make arrangements such as selling your house, car or property, resigning from your job or making non-refundable flight or other travel arrangements until you have received your immigrant visa.

 

[alex2014]

So to illustrate your argument, because you need to be able to take extremes into account when you propose things: if you have 3 million entries each from Nepal and Iran and 5000 from the rest of Asia, for example, then: any ROA entry is guaranteed selection, Nepalese and Iranian applicants have a negligible chance of being selected, and Asia as a whole is under quota. Yet somehow this is a fair approach?

In your extreme case, if the rate of being selected is 1%, then 50 for ROA, 3,500 for Nepal and Iran, respectively. Are 7,050 visa under quota? I don't know. In Statistics, we call these extreme cases "outliers", and they will not be taken into consideration. In reality, your extreme case will not occur in the forthcoming future. Also, do you think KCC really care about achieving the visa quota?

Whether it is a fair approach or not ? For me, it is fair on the basis of my understanding of the "diversity".

 

[SusieQQQ]

In your extreme case, if the rate of being selected is 1%, then 50 for ROA, 3,500 for Nepal and Iran, respectively. Are 7,050 visa under quota? I don't know. In Statistics, we call these extreme cases "outliers", and they will not be taken into consideration. In reality, your extreme case will not occur in the forthcoming future. Also, do you think KCC really care about achieving the visa quota?

Whether it is a fair approach or not ? For me, it is fair on the basis of my understanding of the "diversity".

If you know anything about statistics you know that outliers can actually happen. You may think it won't - that is not the same thing.
The way you explained your 60:20:20 idea and the numbers you give above don't add up if it is 60% mandated for ROA.
I think simon has already explained that "diversity" in the meaning of the visa is not the same as your understanding of it.

The only problem you and others here really have with the system is that you were born in the wrong country.

 

[EURO2014]

Since the "diversity" is based on the region(AF, EU, AS,.....), then the visa quota for each country should also be based on its according region quota rather than 7% of the world. In Accounting, 20% of shares means a significant effect. Therefore, I would limit visa quota of each country to 20% of its region if other competitors exist.
20% of 8,500 for Nepal, 20% of 8,500 for Iran, and 60% for ROA. IMHO, the true meaning of "diversity" is more matched in this way.

Can the "diversity" be achieved without dividing quota to regions? By the limit of 7% of world visa for each country, I think, it can. I really don't know why visa quota were needed to be separated to regions in the first place. (Of course, some will argue that it is by law) Can't it be regarded as a world pool? The suffering effect on ROA from Nepal and Iran can be diluted by not grouping countries into the region.

The US law on which the DV process is based on defines the process as regional, as opposed to country based, meaning: an Asian is an Asian, is an Asian - independently from her/his country of origin. This results in the desired outcome that every participant from a given region has the same chances of success, up to an upper 7% max. country limit. It is beyond me what possibly could be "unfair" with this approach. To do what you seem to suggest, however, could be considered grossly unfair and discriminating against folks from high participation countries.

 

[SusieQQQ]

No one is asking me, but that's never stopped me before.

If it was me, I'd totally do it from the perspective of what's best for the USA. Therefore I'd get rid of two things - diversity and lottery.

My 50,000 visas would go to the 50,000 best candidates regardless of region. People with useful skills in engineering, IT, science, chemistry, PhDs, etc from any country. A little similar to H1B except you don't need employer sponsorship.

Agree 100%. I'd scrap a bunch of other family visas too actuaLly and bring more skilled people in, as well as make it easier for graduates in certain subjects to remain in the U.S.