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DV 2015 KENYA SELECTEES FORUM

SusieQQQ said:
Oh boy,but to be fair, DRC is in a league of its own :(
I haven't been there but I know a few people who have worked there...
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You have no idea...even myself, being born and growing up in DRC I thought corruption is "normal" it's only after visiting other countries where there are some efforts to curb corruption that I understood that DRC is corrupt to the bone and that it might take something out of this world to change that.
There was a nickaname for corruption: "matabishi, droit de l'oeil, etc" meaning "reward for providing a service" just like "tea" in Kenya.
 
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SusieQQQ said:
I agree 100% that those giving bribes are part of the problem, and I have taken colleagues to task when they do things like joke about how they avoided a traffic fine by paying off a cop (yet at the same time they will complain about how corrupt the government is... And I ask, really, what is the difference between what you just did?) I too had been approached a couple of times by "thirsty" or "hungry" cops. My response was always simple: "write out the ticket, officer". Guess what- they never did - I bet because they knew I would use it to identify the officer who tried to solicit a bribe and lay a complaint.
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Here, for instance cops are happy to draw up most outrageous charges. After all the courts make it very hard for one to stand up and fight.
Not that we do not do anything about it! Ad I said, Kenya would be way ahead but good businesses lose out .
B.Simon is castigating long suffering 'beasts of burden' who are quickly
slayed and forgotten at the slightest shout. If you follow Kenyan news, you know and that is about notables-so many others go quietly!
In some cases, it's risky to stand up. It's just crazy
 
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usken go said:
Here, for instance cops are happy to draw up most outrageous charges. After all the courts make it very hard for one to stand up and fight.
Not that we do not do anything about it! Ad I said, Kenya would be way ahead but good businesses lose out .In some cases, it's risky to stand up. It's just crazy
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Yeah, fighting for "justice" can get you in a mess way above your head (whistleblowers haven't really fared well, have they?) that's why most people choose to keep quiet and live to fight another day.
 
Guys, just a suggestion, maybe some of you want to read the general threads too. There has been a LOT of discussion about how medical dates affect visa expiry, but it seems to be new news to some of you...
 
Sensei-san said:
Though I think (with respect) his views on corruption are a bit idealistic, I would like to see @Britsimon as a pastor. He is already a pastor-figure for the most of us.
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No, his views come from living somewhere where corrupt politicians resign, even if it is just something like a travel expense scandal.... I've said before, there are many things someone who has only ever lived in a safe first world country just cannot comprehend about living in certain developing countries.
 
SusieQQQ said:
No, his views come from living somewhere where corrupt politicians resign, even if it is just something like a travel expense scandal.... I've said before, there are many things someone who has only ever lived in a safe first world country just cannot comprehend about living in certain developing countries.
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True - but change will happen. It just needs more pastors and politicians to be caught with their hands in the till and for the people to realize the people they believe in are just robbing them and keeping them poor and misinformed.
 
Britsimon said:
True - but change will happen. It just needs more pastors and politicians to be caught with their hands in the till and for the people to realize the people they believe in are just robbing them and keeping them poor and misinformed.
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That doesn't explain why it gets worse not better even as the Internet etc allows for more widespread sharing of info.
There is an excellent book called "Why Nations Fail" which explains parts of it. Basically, until there is an incentive for the guys at the top to stop, they won't. And the reason voters don't vote them out is because patronage systems develop and filter through all the way down. I can send you some very depressing reports on this if you want...
 
SusieQQQ said:
That doesn't explain why it gets worse not better even as the Internet etc allows for more widespread sharing of info.
There is an excellent book called "Why Nations Fail" which explains parts of it. Basically, until there is an incentive for the guys at the top to stop, they won't. And the reason voters don't vote them out is because patronage systems develop and filter through all the way down. I can send you some very depressing reports on this if you want...
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I will be looking for a copy of that. Must be very good reading.
 
SusieQQQ said:
That doesn't explain why it gets worse not better even as the Internet etc allows for more widespread sharing of info.
There is an excellent book called "Why Nations Fail" which explains parts of it. Basically, until there is an incentive for the guys at the top to stop, they won't. And the reason voters don't vote them out is because patronage systems develop and filter through all the way down. I can send you some very depressing reports on this if you want...
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I will be looking for a copy of that. Must be very good reading.
Not to keep keeping on it but I gave B. Simon reasons good enough to explain what a monster we have around.
 
usken go said:
I will be looking for a copy of that. Must be very good reading.
Not to keep keeping on it but I gave B. Simon reasons good enough to explain what a monster we have around.
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It's hard for people to understand when they don't know it.
Harder still to understand how endemic it can be in a system and why voters in a democracy don't get rid of corrupt politicians...

The book is a long read but fascinating. Written by two academics from Harvard and MIT but not in an academic style at all and really engaging.
 
SusieQQQ said:
It's hard for people to understand when they don't know it.
Harder still to understand how endemic it can be in a system and why voters in a democracy don't get rid of corrupt politicians...

The book is a long read but fascinating. Written by two academics from Harvard and MIT but not in an academic style at all and really engaging.
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I've order that (along with another recommendation I was given this weekend).
 
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