DV 2013 disqualification because of a child issue
- Thread starter GeorgeG
- Start date
Sm1smom
Super Moderator
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I must say your case isn't looking good especially if you're doing CP. Listing the kid(s) on your husband's DS-230 Form without originally listing them in the eDV application is not something the IO at the US embassy in your country is likely to over-look. They are looking for all kinds of reasons to disqualify applicants in view of the fact that there are more selectees than available visas.
I wouldn't recommend throwing money away at immigration lawyers. The truth is, most immigration lawyers, even in the US, have no detailed knowledge of the complexities involved with (or the simple process of applying for) DV Lottery Visa. But hey, that's my personal opinion, you may actually get to prove me wrong if you go ahead and consult with an immigration lawyer and he/she is able to show you a way out.
You probably would have stood a higher chance of getting the visa if you were doing AOS. Reason being that most of the IOs at the Field Offices that handle AOS based on DV Visas are not quite familiar with the intricacies and background rules, they are mostly concerned with making sure those doing AOS based on DV lotteries are not out of status. These officers are more knowledgeable and familiar with handling marriage, family and employment based AOS.
Good luck to you with whatever you decide on and with whichever course of action you underake.
Sim1son, thank you a lot for the advice. The rule of the games are very clear but I just could not follow which was not my fault. I can never have a photo of my stepson and in this case I have to wait till he reaches 21 years old and try again for the dv lottery. Seems this is the best option if I will ever be selected again.
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You could always give the Embassy a call and ask. It would be nice to know what they think.
I dont know about Fredi`s case but as she/he said its a stepson and it was well know that it existed before the marriage.
Everybody started talking about his/her case that is disq. 100%.
I am not a native english speaker and thats why I am using the word "lovechild" ( a child born during the marriage ).
How come my mother will get disqualified because my father has one more kid that was born in the middle of their marriage?
It is not fair and it will never be. Why she should write him in the app form as her kid when she has NO connection at all with him. AS I said its more right not to write it there. The other way to get disq. is when you write down a kid that has no connection at all with you. Even now I would do the first thing again and when filling her form dont write it.
If she fills this unknown/ no biological / not adopted kid in her DV app form and somehow finds the picture as well what happens?
Even if she wants to take this unknown kid with her she CANT because she has no rights on it. His real mother does.
Please give me an advice. This case is in East of Europe. VichelI can tell you exact country in private message. What do you think that is should be done? BTW this is not a cultural thing here ( having a few families at the same time like in some countries in the Middle East).
Thanks
Everybody started talking about his/her case that is disq. 100%.
I am not a native english speaker and thats why I am using the word "lovechild" ( a child born during the marriage ).
How come my mother will get disqualified because my father has one more kid that was born in the middle of their marriage?
It is not fair and it will never be. Why she should write him in the app form as her kid when she has NO connection at all with him. AS I said its more right not to write it there. The other way to get disq. is when you write down a kid that has no connection at all with you. Even now I would do the first thing again and when filling her form dont write it.
If she fills this unknown/ no biological / not adopted kid in her DV app form and somehow finds the picture as well what happens?
Even if she wants to take this unknown kid with her she CANT because she has no rights on it. His real mother does.
Please give me an advice. This case is in East of Europe. VichelI can tell you exact country in private message. What do you think that is should be done? BTW this is not a cultural thing here ( having a few families at the same time like in some countries in the Middle East).
Thanks
Sm1smom
Super Moderator
Yeah, go ahead and fill her application form next time around just like it was done before - omit the mention of this child (then list him on your father's form) -and if your mom's application get selected, she will be met with another Visa DENIAL! You can either play by the stated rules of the initiators of a game or opt to interpret the rules as you deem fit and face the consequences.
Including the child on the application form does not mean she has to take him along to the US, she will be given the opportunity to indicate who will or will not be migrating with her.
Exceptions to listing a child in the eDV form is following:
1- They are older than 21.
2- They are married.
3- They are US citizens or lawful permanent residents in US.
If a child falls in any of these criteria, the child is not qualified / not eligible for DV visa and should not be listed in eDV application.
Additionally, DV instructions clearly state that all natural children have to be listed.
Regarding step-children, verbatim from the DV instructions:
"Entries must also include all children legally adopted by you, and step-children who are
unmarried and under the age of 21 on the date of your electronic entry, even if you are no longer legally
married to the child’s parent, and even if the spouse or child does not currently reside with you and/or will not
immigrate with you."
Sm1smom
Super Moderator
And your point with quoting this:
is??
The above referenced post was specifically directed at Fredi's unique situation! I'm very well aware of the acceptable exceptions for not listing a child in the eDV entry.
I know you are well aware of it, I just wanted to make sure whoever reads these posts not get confused because it is pretty clear cut in DV instructions who should be vs. should not be listed. All the discussion here suggests as if there is a gray area regarding children; there isn't. ALL children have to be listed regardless of the circumstances except those three criteria.
NuvF
Member
raevsky, can you elaborate more on this? (the blue part).
Are you just saying that if only the red 'if not' fact is true this is applicable? Then I agree, but the burden of proof of that 'if not' is high, I think.
In general, afaIk, in other GC categories than in DV, the inclusion/exclusion of kids that you do not intend to get GCs is NOT A MUST nor a disqualifying factor.
Do you know whether if one do not include an otherwise eligible kid at a (Non DV) AoS GC stage and if after becoming USC if one file an i-131 for such a kid, that it can be rejected outright? I do not think there's legal provisions for it, but I may be wrong.
I blv the 'all kids must be included' part is 'administrative' rule ONLY for DV due to its 2 part nature (eDV and then CP or AoS, see my next post).
Best!
NuvF
Member
George, I think everyone feel for you, it was a God given opportunity for the family but.........
However, I think that you write under an assumption like....'if we do not care, then why would they'....!!
But, I think it has more legal ramifications which are not simple.(see later)
First, you need to understand that this blunder happened ALL because your (one or both) parent's DS 230 'kids' info did not match with your DV winner Mom's eDV.
May be ALL of you did 'not know' the rules and that is not an excuse either.
But then, even if your Mom wanted to include the kid but since she do not have access to all the info and photos of the those type of kid/s, then what? it is so unfair!!!(see later my take on this)
Legal Ramifications and eDV/DV Admin
Legally, the US Gov. is required to issue GCs to 'eligible' kids if applied for, as explained here http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=86493e4d77d73210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
For an eg., if your Dad who may have gotten a GC ('cos your Mom won DV) and after HE become a USC in 5 yrs time (or even as soon as he gets to US with his DV GC) he could have petition (i-131) the USG for a GC for his other bio. child. I think at DV stage the USG wants to know all these current/future their LEGAL obligations, hence the 'must' rule.
But, afaIk, this is not a MUST disclose rule for other GC categories who file AoS I-485 or CP DS 230. (I may be wrong)
The DV Admin rules are CLEAR on this.
See here on page 6 http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87838.pdf
This may be mainly aimed at to 'equitably' conduct the lottery. The US Govt. wants to know the 'odds' beforehand, as far as numbers are concerned, how many are otherwise 'eligible' for a DV even before the drawing, and especially as the drawing happen 'cos the odds change with each incremental winner PLUS their derivatives. Just my opinion.
However, it is very unfortunate that they do not make an exception at eDV stage, to those who do not currently have ACCESS (photos/info etc) to otherwise eligible and must disclose kids.
The exception/facility should have had something like 'if you can not get with a REASONABLE EFFORT , photos and other info of otherwise eligible kids, give their names, dob, relationship etc. here. If you win, you may not be able to file for a GC for them later in the future. If you file, it is up to the discretion of USG officials to make the decision'
If you look closely on above mentioned page 6 #d, this 'discretion' is ALREADY there for DV ,for 'officials' to follow. Unfortunately they do not look at the WHOLE PIC and their discretionary power on them, but simply deny the whole case!!
George, for now what your Mom could do (than fighting with or grinding teeth at your Dad!!, just kidding), is try to capitalize on the USG's own 'admin procedures' as far as the given 9FAM document is concerned and get the CP officials to get your case to DoS AO Division for a ruling. It may be an uphill task but worth a try!
Good Luck Bro!
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If I remember correctly, the mandating that a picture for each applicant is submitted, irrespective of any circumstances, is to deter and prevent people and child smuggling. There have been numerous cases reported to the U.S. Congress by the U.S. Government Accountability Office whereby selectees have knowingly attempted to immigrate to the United States with children that in reality belong to a different set of parents. The motivation is generally a combination of monetary greed and desperation, but nonetheless it exists and is prevalent.
At the moment this fraudulent activity is generally limited to women / couples bringing new-born babies to the interview with a claim of pregnancy at the time of the initial entry along with a subsequent birth and a new child with the right to immigrate alongside the family, thereby avoiding the electronic picture security check, as for obvious reasons no photograph is required for a fœtus. This fraud is perpetuated mainly in poorer parts of the world where fraudulent birth certificates and other documentation is easy to come by in order to retrospectively accommodate the claim to immigrate, and this is the problem.
It’s a shame a few have to ruin it for the many, but that’s the way it is I’m afraid, and as such the rule concerning applicant photographic submissions is strict.
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Look at my posts in the topic http://forums.immigration.com/showt...lified-but-still-asked-to-go-for-an-interview
Not including a spouse or a child on electronic DV form is generally a disqualifying factor for CP but is generally a non-disqualifying factor for AOS. That is all because of jurisdiction issues.
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http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/visa_4762.html
This text definitely assumes that your AOS would succeed even if your child or spouse was not listed on your online form. However, in this case after you successfully adjust status, they cannot do consular processing.
Geeeez.. It only shows you understand things the way you want not the way they are supposed to be understood. This statement only shows that if you have spouse or/and children living outside the US and you are already in the States willing to adjust your status, they are eligible for visa if listed on online entry. "When you adjust your status in the US" definitely DOESNT mean you would succeed. And it doesnt matter if you take it literally or read between the lines.
If they considered a possibility of you not succeeding in AOS process because of child or spouse not being listed, they would write it completely differently. They would not say "if they were listed on your Diversity Visa online entry", It definitely means this is not an obstacle for AOS.
Of course, that is in addition to the only USCIS policy on AOS describing general issues - https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/alt.visa.us/Vz0M7tc_ce4 that does not say anythng about disqualifications because of child or spouse not being listed.
BurundiWinner
Registered Users (C)
Too many assumptions...
Bingo
i.e. if they are eligible to be listed on online entry, i.e. they are not older than 21, not married, etc.
Oh by the way, that 18 year old document says we're not supposed to pay $330 to DOS. I'll ask for a refund.