Do you travel inside the US with your card?

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nickS652

Registered Users (C)
Just wanted to share our experience:
yesterday we were driving in a middle of Vermont and there was a USCIS roadblock on the highway. They stopped all cars and asked if occupants were US citizens. If not one needed to show proof of immigration status. We went skiing and all three of us in the car (permanent residents) had no green cards. I had a copy. They pulled us over, run our drivers licences in their computer and let us go. The guy was very nice, he said, you know you need to carry your cards at all times, but no problem, we understand people often don't do it, we just need to make sure we can see you in our system... I felt so lucky they let us go without a ticket.
Just a warning...

Nick
 
I carried my GC in my wallet for 2y11 months when I held PR status. Although I never met a USCIS roadblock in IL, I carried my GC only because it is the law.
 
Is that even legal? Can they stop people on the street (who have not committed any crimes) and start demanding proof of residence/citizenship?

We're becoming more and more like a Police State.
 
I don't know that but I do know that by not carrying their GC an individual does break the law.

Woz2000 said:
Is that even legal?
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If an overstayer or illegal immigrant is caught this way, then someone who broke the law is caught. Would that be justified in the eyes of the law enforcers?

Woz2000 said:
Can they stop people on the street (who have not committed any crimes) and start demanding proof of residence/citizenship?
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I don't think the law allows law enforcement to randomly stop people to see if they have broken the law. There has to be reasonable belief. If they were allowed, the cops could randomly stop people on the street for anything and demand the person PROVE HE IS INNOCENT (this is contrary to our rights of innocence until proven guilty). Then where does it stop (from demanding proof of citenzship/legal status)... do they start searching a person's clothes, breathalyser, lie detector for contrabands, intoxication, theft, etc...



Triple Citizen said:
If an overstayer or illegal immigrant is caught this way, then someone who broke the law is caught. Would that be justified in the eyes of the law enforcers?
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I am not defending or encouraging random immigration checks. I lived in Kuwait for 4 years and got my fair share of those. However, the truth is, such checks occur daily in certain border states on both borders. Travel on the I-10 if you want to experience one for yourself. Or drive a snow mobile along the Maine/New Brunswick border.

All DUIs are caught when the officer suspects that a driver is drunk. Only after a breath test can the officer confirm that the driver has indeed broken the law. Now an officer in El Paso may use the same logic and stop a truck full of hispanic looking occupants and defend himself saying that he suspected some of them were illegal aliens. Again, I am not defending them, just stating what does happen.

Woz2000 said:
I don't think the law allows law enforcement to randomly stop people to see if they have broken the law.
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It's true that the cop only knows for sure if a driver is drunk after the breathalyser, but he must have a reason to suspect he is drunk (ie, driving erratically, not staying in lane, etc) in order to pull him over.

Anyway, not really arguing with you. Just never saw cops stop cars and check for immigration (the only time I've seen them is random spot check for drunks during holidays, and I think that was deemed legal through technicality or something like that).



Triple Citizen said:
I am not defending or encouraging random immigration checks. I lived in Kuwait for 4 years and got my fair share of those. However, the truth is, such checks occur daily in certain border states on both borders. Travel on the I-10 if you want to experience one for yourself. Or drive a snow mobile along the Maine/New Brunswick border.

All DUIs are caught when the officer suspects that a driver is drunk. Only after a breath test can the officer confirm that the driver has indeed broken the law. Now an officer in El Paso may use the same logic and stop a truck full of hispanic looking occupants and defend himself saying that he suspected some of them were illegal aliens. Again, I am not defending them, just stating what does happen.
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I think we had some time ago a post about the same situation of "if you carry your green card with you at all times". The law clearly states so, but if your call as an adult to make your own choices...only if something happens...just be aware that the law does not says "at your own discretion" regardless of the situation.
 
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Woz2000 said:
I don't think the law allows law enforcement to randomly stop people to see if they have broken the law. There has to be reasonable belief. .
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The difference between cops and USCIS/ICE agents is that the formers are looking for criminal violations where the probably cause is needed to stop a person; while the latters are looking for immigration violations that are by nature not criminal, but civil/administrative. So the USCIS/ICE contends that (unlike cops) they do not need a pobable cause to stop aliens and inquire about their immigration status.

I wonder though what the courts will eventually say about that.
 
Triple Citizen said:
All DUIs are caught when the officer suspects that a driver is drunk. Only after a breath test can the officer confirm that the driver has indeed broken the law.
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Yes - an officer is supposed to have a suspicion founded on facts - what is called a probable cause. For example, observing a car swerving from lane to lane would be a probable cause.


Now an officer in El Paso may use the same logic and stop a truck full of hispanic looking occupants and defend himself saying that he suspected some of them were illegal aliens.
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What you describe here is not a probable cause, but rather an illegal ethnic profiling. Instead, ICE and Border Patrol uses another reasoning - they claim authority to stop non-citizens and inquire about their immigration status without a probable cause, because immigration violations are civil/administrative, not criminal.
 
wombat said:
So the USCIS/ICE contends that (unlike cops) they do not need a pobable cause to stop aliens and inquire about their immigration status.

I wonder though what the courts will eventually say about that.
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I have to wonder that myself. How do they determine that somebody is an alien before stopping them.
 
Jackolantern said:
How do they determine that somebody is an alien before stopping them.
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In the OP they were stopping everybody and just asking people whether they are citizens or not. Presumably if you answer yes, they have to let you go without further checking on your status. I do not think they can ask citizens to prove their status (except at border crossing)
 
wombat said:
Presumably if you answer yes, they have to let you go without further checking on your status. I do not think they can ask citizens to prove their status (except at border crossing)
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Which means the illegals will say yes and move on, because they have nothing to lose by saying they are a citizen (they obviously can't admit to being illegal). While the legal immigrants (who won't lie about being a citizen, because they want to preserve their legal status) are the ones who may get into trouble if they don't have their papers.
 
Is this for real? Is there really a federal law that says one must carry their pysical GC with them at all times? My understanding was the requirement for everyone was to carry a valid photo ID.


Stoned!
 
Ice

Triple Citizen said:
When an applicant receives his/her GC, the accompanying literature clearly states the requirment of the law.
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I am not sure how it is right now but no one could be stop by ICE without a good reason. ICE only has jurisdiction 20 or 30 miles from the border but if they are going to work far away from that they need an special authorization form the county or state governor. In Illinois by tradition no governor has allow ICE to do rides by them self., however South Carolina and Virginia is another issue… I have friend in california who just moved because there were rides every week.....Our lawyer have told us to always carry a copy of H1B visa plus visa stamp and passport just in case before get residence. In 6 years living in Illinois I have never been stop by any USCIS ride. There have been a few rides over here (last one 2 years ago) but it was only to detain convict people who was in USA without visa. Do I carry my GC I am not. I just have my IDs and a copy of the GC just in case. This side of the country is much different than other were rides happen every week.....:)
 
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karl65 said:
I am not sure how it is right now but no one could be stop by ICE without a good reason. ICE only has jurisdiction 20 or 30 miles from the border but if they are going to work far away from that they need an special authorization form the county or state governor.
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Immigration is a federal responsibility, and as such ICE has jurisdiction everywhere in the United States. State or County authorities can choose not to cooperate with ICE, but cannot prevent them from doing their job.
 
Who told you that? This forum is aware of an ICE raid in the middle of the night to arrest a forum member who entered the country on an F-1 visa and was in the process of adjusting status by virtue of marriage to a US citizen. As TRC said, ICE is a federal agency. They have jurisdiction all over the US.

karl65 said:
ICE only has jurisdiction 20 or 30 miles from the border
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Triple Citizen said:
Who told you that? This forum is aware of an ICE raid in the middle of the night to arrest a forum member who entered the country on an F-1 visa and was in the process of adjusting status by virtue of marriage to a US citizen. As TRC said, ICE is a federal agency. They have jurisdiction all over the US.
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Yes but I was talking about rides in middle of the roads just to check residence status..... I know law have change since 9/11 but it doesn't mean ICE can do whatever they want....As the police you have to be suspect to brale Immigration law.....
 
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