Discuss: Visa Bulletin - Punishing news for India

PHSESAaug

Registered Users (C)
Guess the news is way better for the chinese or other nationals. How can India EB3 be so lagged? Are there really people with PD in April 2001 filing 140 and 485 now?

There are just 2 more months left in this fiscal - August and September. Next fiscal starting in October will take us back to begining of 2001 to accomodate 245(i). It's a curse to be a EB3. Without CIR EB3 is doomed. EB2 has some hope.
 
My analysis

Guys and Gals,

It is truly puzzling that India EB3 is behind every other country now. I am not sure what the rationale is behind that. I understand that there are 245i cases pending but the majority of them are not from India. If 245is are truly flooding the system then World Wide EB3 should not have seen the movement to Oct 01. India EB3 has been retrogressed since OCT 05 and the only explaination is that most of the 7,000 visas alloted to India during the fiscal year have been used up or the DOS and USCIS expects them to be used up when the dates of India move thru April. They did the same for World Wide and China when they were in April but when they saw no flood of cases with April 2001 PDs, they started moving the dates for these countries. For India they are either being very cautious thru April or the most of the 7000 visas have been used up and they know that the remaining will get used up when India EB3 dates move thru April 01.

I think India EB3 will be moved to April 30th in the next bulletin (if there is no flood) and then if in August there is no flood India EB3 will be moved past April 01 and the move at that point maybe into June or July 01. On the flip side if a lot of India EB3 cases before April 15th 01 start coming thru then the dates will not move beyond April thru the rest of the fiscal year. If the dates move to the end of April 01 in the August bulletin then it will be slightly better news, if not then we are in for a long long wait.

As for Oct 06. There is growing concern that most of the pending labor cases in the BECs will flood the system later this year. That may eat up the numbers for fiscal year 07. Again this is speculation.

I know all this sounds really depressing but this is the most realistic analysis that I could come up with.

regards,

saras
 
Why do you say most 245(i) are not indians

Saras - I don't understand why you think most 245(i) is not from India. I am thinking of using AC-21 within the next 6 months.

Mexicans and Indians were topped the immigrants list the past decade. Is this an attempt to slow that rate?
 
EB2 hasnt moved for the last 2 months either!
So I dont see how Eb2 has any hope. Surprisingly even Eb1 hasnt moved at all..If EB1 doesn't become current those numbers dont flow into EB2..
Man even China EB2 has moved by 8 months.. :(

PHSESAaug said:
Guess the news is way better for the chinese or other nationals. How can India EB3 be so lagged? Are there really people with PD in April 2001 filing 140 and 485 now?

There are just 2 more months left in this fiscal - August and September. Next fiscal starting in October will take us back to begining of 2001 to accomodate 245(i). It's a curse to be a EB3. Without CIR EB3 is doomed. EB2 has some hope.
 
That's right

saras76 said:
Guys and Gals,

It is truly puzzling that India EB3 is behind every other country now. I am not sure what the rationale is behind that. I understand that there are 245i cases pending but the majority of them are not from India.
saras

saras,
You almost nailed it. My attorney once told me that 95% of the 245(i) cases are from Mexico and remaining 5% are from the rest of the world. India has always been the most subscribed (or over subscribed) category, regardless of 245(i) cases. So, assume that only 2-3% of the 245(i) cases are from India. These (small percentage) cases are enough to slow down the progress of visa dates considerably for India in April 2001.

Also, you are right that in the next month's bulletin, the visa dates for EB3 India will be either April 22 or April 30, 2001.

Regards.
 
If the percentage is correct, I wonder why EB3 world retrogresses that bad. It has been a year since EB3 world retrogressed. Look at the advance of EB3 world will give you some idea of EB3 India. Nobody goes anywhere until EB3 world moves.

RAYDHAN said:
saras,
You almost nailed it. My attorney once told me that 95% of the 245(i) cases are from Mexico and remaining 5% are from the rest of the world. India has always been the most subscribed (or over subscribed) category, regardless of 245(i) cases. So, assume that only 2-3% of the 245(i) cases are from India. These (small percentage) cases are enough to slow down the progress of visa dates considerably for India in April 2001.

Also, you are right that in the next month's bulletin, the visa dates for EB3 India will be either April 22 or April 30, 2001.

Regards.
 
EB3 world

mmaxima said:
If the percentage is correct, I wonder why EB3 world retrogresses that bad. It has been a year since EB3 world retrogressed. Look at the advance of EB3 world will give you some idea of EB3 India. Nobody goes anywhere until EB3 world moves.

mmaxima,

If one really digs deep then he/she will find way to many unanswered questions. A lot of these dates make no sense. The only thing that can justify them is some "ulterior" motive that we are not aware of. This can be a number of things. Clearing backlog, lessening load to implement new strategies, artifically reaching the 6 month processing time line set forth by Bush at the begging of his term, speculative data being used to determine forward movement ... the list can go on and on ...

regards,

saras
 
saras76 said:
mmaxima,

If one really digs deep then he/she will find way to many unanswered questions. A lot of these dates make no sense. The only thing that can justify them is some "ulterior" motive that we are not aware of. This can be a number of things. Clearing backlog, lessening load to implement new strategies, artifically reaching the 6 month processing time line set forth by Bush at the begging of his term, speculative data being used to determine forward movement ... the list can go on and on ...

regards,

saras


you missed disliking brown colored ppl
 
True to an extent ...

where_is_my_gc said:
you missed disliking brown colored ppl

where_is_my_gc,

I partially agree with you but I think the dislike is for immigrants in general. The US is feeling the heat of competition from the rest of the world. Its own population is poorly trained in math and science. The US probably has one of the worst public high school systems in the world and the current administration is more concerned about fixing other countires problems rather than their own. In the 90's the US became a little to comfortable with its number one status in the world. The general population got to used to things going their way and everyone had an air of invincibility about them. The past 5 years have been a wakeup call for most people in the US. The sad part is that instead of taking a deep look at their own situation and policies they have found the immigrant community to be an easy scape-goat for all their problems. I am sick of hearing the following ..

The US is loosing jobs because of immigrants, the security of the US is in jeoopardy because of immigrants, the US is losing its identity because of immigrants, immigrants are not assimilating into the American culture, etc etc. Although there may be some truth to the above allegations its a stretch to blame immigrants for problems that the US currently faces and I am afraid will continue to face in the future. As for assimilation .. its a two way street .. for people to assimilate they must not feel threathned, they must feel comfortable and they must feel welcome. I am afraid the US lacks all of these things in this day and age. The only reason I am here is because I am able to make good money and I have a large community of my own in the city I live in ... I could care less to assimilate into a society that looks down upon the community I come from. I believe in assimilating to the extent of speaking english and respecting the laws of this land. The rest is my choice and I am not going to let people tell me how else I need to assimilate. I thought that was the whole reason the US was so great. One was supposed to do almost anything within the law. Now things are being controlled ...

Although there are genuine people in the debate on immigration, I am afraid a good portion of bigots and racists have skillfully colored this debate with their own views. They are using the anti-immigrant sentiment to further their cause. The hints are subtle and most of us immigrants are ignoring them. Most of us really need to wake up and see through this stuff ... its in our own best interest.

saras
 
I don't find the India EB3 situation puzzling at all. I don't believe there's any conspiracy or ulterior motive involved. The explanation is much simpler.

India has highest number of EB3 applications (not counting 245i's) among all countries. Due to country limits only a maximum of 2800 Indian EB3 applications can go through every year. But this limit is soft and surplus/overflow from rest of EB3 quota has historically kept India's EB3 going. The vast number of 245i applications choke off this overflow. India's proportion in 245i applications is indeed small, but that doesn't matter. 245i's are comprised mostly of Mexicans but many countries (including Russia, China and many others) are present in small proportions. Due the gigantic number of 245i applications, they're enough to prevent any surplus in EB3 quotas. Even though only a maximum of 2800 Mexican 245i applications will go through, there are people from Russia, China, Brazil that will dig into the EB3 pool. Many people believe that 245i applicants are nearly all Mexicans. Not true. I've personally met a person from Russia who (along with group of 20 friends) has applied for 245i. Another one person from Equador. Many Latin American country are represented in 245i. There people from Caribbeans, Eastern Europe, Pecific rim countries... you get the idea. I'll make a guess here: at least two dozen countries which are represented in 245i app pool in thousands.

Therefore, surplus EB3 visa above the country limit are not available to any country now. Why is India affected most by it? Because it has the highest number of EB3 applicants.

Ok. So how does it translate into what we have in store for future:

  • While India, China and Mexico EB3 will remain deeply retrogressed (with India being the worst), RoW will make steady improvements as 245i's get processed, becoming current in 3-5 years.

  • India's EB3 dates will cross May 1st during coming months. This is considered a Holy Grail by most people. It'll not turn out to be that. India's EB3 dates will continue marching forward through May, June, etc. at the pace of a paraplegic snail dragging lead behind it. Movement will be extremely slow due to lack of surplus from RoW. People from early 2002 can have hopes in 18-24 months. Same pace moving forward for rest of the years. In a nutshell, India EB3 applicants are royally screwed. And don't raise your hopes when India's EB3 dates cross May 1st. It's not a sign of troubles being over.

  • EB2 applicants can expect PD movement in medium term. Don't expect anything next month. But you've reason to be optimistc in 6-12 months timeframe. This one is just a hunch.

  • CIR is an obvious hope. But if it has any kind of hard country limit, its usefulness will be decimated. The number of applicants from India is so huge, that it badly needs surplus from RoW. Hard country limit with increased per country quota will reduce the wait from 10 years to 3-5, not any more.

Hate to be so downbeat here. I'm mostly a very optimistic person. But the problem is that -no matter how you look at it, India EB3's are more than neck deep in unprocessed sewage.
 
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saras76 said:
where_is_my_gc,

I partially agree with you but I think the dislike is for immigrants in general. The US is feeling the heat of competition from the rest of the world. Its own population is poorly trained in math and science. The US probably has one of the worst public high school systems in the world and the current administration is more concerned about fixing other countires problems rather than their own. In the 90's the US became a little to comfortable with its number one status in the world. The general population got to used to things going their way and everyone had an air of invincibility about them. The past 5 years have been a wakeup call for most people in the US. The sad part is that instead of taking a deep look at their own situation and policies they have found the immigrant community to be an easy scape-goat for all their problems. I am sick of hearing the following ..

The US is loosing jobs because of immigrants, the security of the US is in jeoopardy because of immigrants, the US is losing its identity because of immigrants, immigrants are not assimilating into the American culture, etc etc. Although there may be some truth to the above allegations its a stretch to blame immigrants for problems that the US currently faces and I am afraid will continue to face in the future. As for assimilation .. its a two way street .. for people to assimilate they must not feel threathned, they must feel comfortable and they must feel welcome. I am afraid the US lacks all of these things in this day and age. The only reason I am here is because I am able to make good money and I have a large community of my own in the city I live in ... I could care less to assimilate into a society that looks down upon the community I come from. I believe in assimilating to the extent of speaking english and respecting the laws of this land. The rest is my choice and I am not going to let people tell me how else I need to assimilate. I thought that was the whole reason the US was so great. One was supposed to do almost anything within the law. Now things are being controlled ...

Although there are genuine people in the debate on immigration, I am afraid a good portion of bigots and racists have skillfully colored this debate with their own views. They are using the anti-immigrant sentiment to further their cause. The hints are subtle and most of us immigrants are ignoring them. Most of us really need to wake up and see through this stuff ... its in our own best interest.

saras

This is very much the reality. By following the system we have become the scapegoats. It is very easy to blame us for anything now.
 
gravitation said:
I don't find the India EB3 situation puzzling at all. I don't believe there's any conspiracy or ulterior motive involved. The explanation is much simpler.

India has highest number of EB3 applications (not counting 245i's) among all countries. Due to country limits only a maximum of 2800 Indian EB3 applications can go through every year. But this limit is soft and surplus/overflow from rest of EB3 quota has historically kept India's EB3 going. The vast number of 245i applications choke off this overflow. India's proportion in 245i applications is indeed small, but that doesn't matter. 245i's are comprised mostly of Mexicans but many countries (including Russia, China and many others) are present in small proportions. Due the gigantic number of 245i applications, they're enough to prevent any surplus in EB3 quotas. Even though only a maximum of 2800 Mexican 245i applications will go through, there are people from Russia, China, Brazil that will dig into the EB3 pool. Many people believe that 245i applicants are nearly all Mexicans. Not true. I've personally met a person from Russia who (along with group of 20 friends) has applied for 245i. Another one person from Equador. Many Latin American country are represented in 245i. There people from Caribbeans, Eastern Europe, Pecific rim countries... you get the idea. I'll make a guess here: at least two dozen countries which are represented in 245i app pool in thousands.

Therefore, surplus EB3 visa above the country limit are not available to any country now. Why is India affected most by it? Because it has the highest number of EB3 applicants.

Ok. So how does it translate into what we have in store for future:

  • While India, China and Mexico EB3 will remain deeply retrogressed (with India being the worst), RoW will make steady improvements as 245i's get processed, becoming current in 3-5 years.

  • India's EB3 dates will cross May 1st during coming months. This is considered a Holy Grail by most people. It'll not turn out to be that. India's EB3 dates will continue marching forward through May, June, etc. at the pace of a paraplegic snail dragging lead behind it. Movement will be extremely slow due to lack of surplus from RoW. People from early 2002 have hopes in 18-24 months. Same pace moving forward for rest of the years. In a nutshell, India EB3 applicants are royally screwed. And don't raise your hopes when India's EB3 dates cross May 1st. It's not a sign of troubles being over.

  • EB2 applicants can expect PD movement in medium term. Don't expect anything next month. But you've reason to be optimistc in 6-12 months timeframe. This one is just a hunch.

  • CIR is an obvious hope. But if it has any kind of hard country limit, it's usefulness will be decimated. The number of applicants from India is so huge, that it badly needs surplus from RoW. Hard country limit with increased per country quota will reduce the wait from 10 years to 3-5, not any more.

Hate to be so downbeat here. I'm mostly a very optimistic person. But the problem is that -no matter how you look at it, India EB3's are more than neck deep in ...

As long as USCIS and DOL does not come out with facts and figures with reasoning, it becomes difficult to assume and analyse things. We can follow an optimistic approach as well as a pessimistic approach. Basically if the goal post is kept moving further and further, without any reasoning, anything can be assumed.
 
chanduv23 said:
As long as USCIS and DOL does not come out with facts and figures with reasoning, it becomes difficult to assume and analyse things. We can follow an optimistic approach as well as a pessimistic approach. Basically if the goal post is kept moving further and further, without any reasoning, anything can be assumed.
My reasoning explains the current India EB3 dates being behind other countries' without resorting to vague conspiracy theories, racism, xenophobia or ulterior motives.

I've not followed any pessimistic approach. I've just done the reasoning and reached whatever conclusion it took me to. All "assumption", as you call them, have logic behind them.

It's very hard to accept dire results. I understand.
 
Couldn't agree more. I'll simply repeat something I posted in a prev. post ..."Immigrants are simply not welcome in US in these times"..Period! And that's a fact!
As for ulterior motives with this Retro..we will know in a few months..if when the actual nbrs are published for 06 and they have wasted visa nbrs nothing more needs to be said! If not ..then I keep saying NOBODY knows the nbrs so stop speculating!
In the end we must all make our choices not based on a pessimistic frustration from the process or fantasyland optimism but on a realistic dose of our INDIVIDUAL situations combined with faith and hope!
 
Yes my friend ...

gravitation said:
I don't find the India EB3 situation puzzling at all. I don't believe there's any conspiracy or ulterior motive involved. The explanation is much simpler.

India has highest number of EB3 applications (not counting 245i's) among all countries. Due to country limits only a maximum of 2800 Indian EB3 applications can go through every year. But this limit is soft and surplus/overflow from rest of EB3 quota has historically kept India's EB3 going. The vast number of 245i applications choke off this overflow. India's proportion in 245i applications is indeed small, but that doesn't matter. 245i's are comprised mostly of Mexicans but many countries (including Russia, China and many others) are present in small proportions. Due the gigantic number of 245i applications, they're enough to prevent any surplus in EB3 quotas. Even though only a maximum of 2800 Mexican 245i applications will go through, there are people from Russia, China, Brazil that will dig into the EB3 pool. Many people believe that 245i applicants are nearly all Mexicans. Not true. I've personally met a person from Russia who (along with group of 20 friends) has applied for 245i. Another one person from Equador. Many Latin American country are represented in 245i. There people from Caribbeans, Eastern Europe, Pecific rim countries... you get the idea. I'll make a guess here: at least two dozen countries which are represented in 245i app pool in thousands.

Therefore, surplus EB3 visa above the country limit are not available to any country now. Why is India affected most by it? Because it has the highest number of EB3 applicants.

Ok. So how does it translate into what we have in store for future:

  • While India, China and Mexico EB3 will remain deeply retrogressed (with India being the worst), RoW will make steady improvements as 245i's get processed, becoming current in 3-5 years.

  • India's EB3 dates will cross May 1st during coming months. This is considered a Holy Grail by most people. It'll not turn out to be that. India's EB3 dates will continue marching forward through May, June, etc. at the pace of a paraplegic snail dragging lead behind it. Movement will be extremely slow due to lack of surplus from RoW. People from early 2002 can have hopes in 18-24 months. Same pace moving forward for rest of the years. In a nutshell, India EB3 applicants are royally screwed. And don't raise your hopes when India's EB3 dates cross May 1st. It's not a sign of troubles being over.

  • EB2 applicants can expect PD movement in medium term. Don't expect anything next month. But you've reason to be optimistc in 6-12 months timeframe. This one is just a hunch.

  • CIR is an obvious hope. But if it has any kind of hard country limit, its usefulness will be decimated. The number of applicants from India is so huge, that it badly needs surplus from RoW. Hard country limit with increased per country quota will reduce the wait from 10 years to 3-5, not any more.

Hate to be so downbeat here. I'm mostly a very optimistic person. But the problem is that -no matter how you look at it, India EB3's are more than neck deep in unprocessed sewage.

gravitiation,

I agree with most of your assesment but the key here is that there aren't thousands of India EB3s or EB2s or EB1s from 2001 and before. Most of these people have already been approved. I have heard a lot of people state that there are a lot of 2001s out there but its in the hundreds and not the thousands. If India EB3 were stuck in 2002 then your scenario would be perfectly true. However, India EB3 is being kept in April 2001 based purely on speculation and fear of 245is. I still firmly believe that. Now if 245is have truly started coming into the USCIS by the thousands then this move is justified but all indications are that this has not yet happened.

regards,

saras
 
While all of our 'theories' are speculative in absence of hard nbrs I'm with Saras on this one : Why April,01 for India?
I'm afraid the USCIS seems to be speculating as well!!!!
 
saras76 said:
gravitiation,

I agree with most of your assesment but the key here is that there aren't thousands of India EB3s or EB2s or EB1s from 2001 and before. Most of these people have already been approved. I have heard a lot of people state that there are a lot of 2001s out there but its in the hundreds and not the thousands. If India EB3 were stuck in 2002 then your scenario would be perfectly true. However, India EB3 is being kept in April 2001 based purely on speculation and fear of 245is. I still firmly believe that. Now if 245is have truly started coming into the USCIS by the thousands then this move is justified but all indications are that this has not yet happened.

regards,

saras
Saras,
Okay. Not many from 2001 and before. That's great news.
However, there're plenty of 2002 and beyond. Once PD does cross 2002, it'll still be slow.

The key point of my reasoning is simply this: Historically India EB3 moved forward because of surplus from EB3 RoW. It's not available anymore. Even if current PD being stuck in Apr 2001 is unjustified, and they correct it and make it move at fast pace through 2001, it'll slow down drastically in 2002. India EB3 is not gonna get more than 2800 visas a year (and that's a maximum, not a minimum). That's my point.

regards,
Gravitation
 
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Speculation used to control flow immigrants from specific country could be a prejudiced approach. I am not being pessimistic. Optimism definitely is the best appproach in analyzing things but being optismistic can actually hide the fact that "reality hurts".
 
unitednations said:
...
I'm not sure why people can't get it through their heads that India in eb3 cannot go over 2,800 until the rest of the world uses up their's. Rest of the world has many countries in 245i (nigerian, brazilian, russian, korean, indonesia, etc.).

UnitedNations,
This is EXACTLY the point I've been trying to make. Somehow, people just don't want to believe it. So glad to hear a voice of reason.

Guys,
This is not a speculation. And It's not an assumption either. 2,800 limit is very much real, and don't forget this is maximum, not a minimum, which means the actual number of EB3 visas numbers received by Indians could actually be well less than this. Historically, the limit didn't come into affect because of surpluses. Due to large number of 245i's, surpluses are gone. All these are facts. It's naive to dismiss them as speculation.
 
gravitation said:
Saras,
Okay. Not many from 2001 and great before. That's great news.
However, there're plenty of 2002 and beyond. Once PD does cross 2002, it'll still be slow.

The key point of my reasoning is simply this: Historically India EB3 moved forward because of surplus from EB3 RoW. It's not available anymore. Even if current PD being stuck in Apr 2001 is unjustified, and they correct it and make it move at fast pace through 2001, it'll slow down drastically in 2002. India EB3 is not gonna get more than 2800 visas a year (and that's a maximum, not a minimum). That's my point.

regards,
Gravitation

Gravitation is correct. There is just way too much demand for EB3 visas from India. Here is an interesting table. Look at the number of EB visas granted in 2005. It has been a while since I looked at this table, but I think there were 66K EB1 visas, 45K EB2s, and over 100K EB3s granted in 2005. Most of it was from the 100K recaptures of AC21, which ran out last year. So the demand is definitely there, especially because of those 3 years of 195K H1Bs.

Now what is really interesting is why EB2 India isn't moving, since if only 45K EB2 were granted last year, then one would assume that EB2 demand is on pace with the quota. That also appears to be the case, since China is close to being current on EB2 and it is only India that is struggling in both EB1 and EB2.
 
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