Denaturalization after travelling to home country

msv5450

msv5450

Active Member
The Trump administration is creating a new office within USCIS to focus on revoking US citizenship from those who did:

(1) illegal procurement of naturalization, and
(2) procurement of naturalization by concealing a material fact or by willful misrepresentation.

Here is the source

This means that an asylum seeker will still be subject to scrutiny and losing citizenship by travelling to the home country even after getting naturalized.
Has anyone experienced this?
 
msv5450 said:
The Trump administration is creating a new office within USCIS to focus on revoking US citizenship from those who did:

(1) illegal procurement of naturalization, and
(2) procurement of naturalization by concealing a material fact or by willful misrepresentation.

Here is the source

This means that an asylum seeker will still be subject to scrutiny and losing citizenship by travelling to the home country even after getting naturalized.
Has anyone experienced this?
Click to expand...
This is nothing new really. The govt has stripped people of citizenship, for example, for concealing the fact that they were Nazi jail guards. I don't know, over recent decades, citizenship has been stripped to less than 1000, out of millions. Even the files under review, 70k, is a drop in the ocean.

My opinion

1. The article is from May 2019. Please ask yourself, how many people have been denaturalized?
2. As the article says, denaturalization is a court proceeding. A judge needs to be clearly convinced that naturalization was awarded illegally.
3. Going home to COP is never grounds to be denaturalized. This is a false fact.
4. Identify fraud happens all the time: people ordered deported with name A, but they turn around and use name B, successfully obtaining citizenship. Ask yourself, why does the FBI and its database fail to catch them? These are people right here in the US. My point is that USCIS/DHS fails to catch US based criminals, whereas asylum based denaturalized involves the FBI going to far off places to find evidence. Imagine, if they can't find evidence right here in the US, what lucky will they have to find evidence in far off countries?

These are alarmist news reports. For the average person, denaturalization happening is similar to aliens from Eta Carinae landing on the White House lawn: It is possible, but highly unlikely.
 
7of9 said:
This is nothing new really. The govt has stripped people of citizenship, for example, for concealing the fact that they were Nazi jail guards. I don't know, over recent decades, citizenship has been stripped to less than 1000, out of millions. Even the files under review, 70k, is a drop in the ocean.

My opinion

1. The article is from May 2019. Please ask yourself, how many people have been denaturalized?
2. As the article says, denaturalization is a court proceeding. A judge needs to be clearly convinced that naturalization was awarded illegally.
3. Going home to COP is never grounds to be denaturalized. This is a false fact.
4. Identify fraud happens all the time: people ordered deported with name A, but they turn around and use name B, successfully obtaining citizenship. Ask yourself, why does the FBI and its database fail to catch them? These are people right here in the US. My point is that USCIS/DHS fails to catch US based criminals, whereas asylum based denaturalized involves the FBI going to far off places to find evidence. Imagine, if they can't find evidence right here in the US, what lucky will they have to find evidence in far off countries?

These are alarmist news reports. For the average person, denaturalization happening is similar to aliens from Eta Carinae landing on the White House lawn: It is possible, but highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
I think visiting the COP is reasonable ground for denaturalization because you declared to the US government under oath that you cannot return to your COP in order to get immigration benefits. Visiting COP is a gross "willful misrepresentation" of your immigration petition. I would revoke the citizenship of those who go back to their COPs if I were an officer. Perhaps I should have phrased my question this way:

To what extent do you think denaturalization is being enforced?

@7of9 you're getting your citizenship soon. Are you planning to visit your country?
 
msv5450 said:
I think visiting the COP is reasonable ground for denaturalization because you declared to the US government under oath that you cannot return to your COP in order to get immigration benefits. Visiting COP is a gross "willful misrepresentation" of your immigration petition. I would revoke the citizenship of those who go back to their COPs if I were an officer.
Click to expand...

It is not unusual for situations to change in a former asylee’s COP. If the source of persecution no longer exists, visiting the COP after the fact cannot be termed “willful misrepresentation” - such a visit therefore cannot lead to naturalization. You’re making a blanket assumption which is not right.
 
If you only have green card, visiting home country can be a risk of losing green card. coz You are still a citizen of your home country, if you were arrested by your home country after returning to your home country, the U.S. government does not have the authority to rescue you.

If you are a naturalized U.S. citizen, do not worry. However, you had better renounce the citizenship of your home country before you make any plans to return, if your home country allows dual citizenship.

I come from China. China does not allow dual citizenship, if I become an American citizen, I will automatically lose Chinese citizenship, so I can return to China on a Chinese visa.
 
As mentioned, it is dependent on each person's case. If circumstances in the COP have changed for the better, there is no reason one would be judged to have misrepresented oneself. Also, a visit to one's COP is different from daily life there. For example, one may be denied employment or education as a resident based on one's sexual orientation or what have you, but as a visitor, one may easily slip under the radar. The point is, you should be careful and document your reasons for feeling safe if you are asked to prove it, but do not feel that you can never go back to your COP.
 
msv5450 said:
I think visiting the COP is reasonable ground for denaturalization because you declared to the US government under oath that you cannot return to your COP in order to get immigration benefits. Visiting COP is a gross "willful misrepresentation" of your immigration petition. I would revoke the citizenship of those who go back to their COPs if I were an officer. Perhaps I should have phrased my question this way:

To what extent do you think denaturalization is being enforced?

@7of9 you're getting your citizenship soon. Are you planning to visit your country?
Click to expand...
I don't know. I have to check to see if the conditions have improved first. I mean, I last went there 15 years ago.
 
Yes, you definitely should. I mean, it goes without saying, doesn't it? Why would you return otherwise?

Having said all this, rememeber that this DHS is very aggressive and impulsive, so be even more cautious. If the election leads to a more deliberative government, you might be more comfortable. If I were not a citizen, I would be a lot more nervous these days.
 
Although they can try, it’s relatively hard to do. They have to investigate and show that the applicant was not qualified for citizenship because they didn’t qualify under INA or they lied about material facts. They have to bring a federal court case against you, win it and win it again on appeal. Supreme Court has laid out that denaturalization is an extraordinary remedy and government needs to overcome a big burden of proof. You can read cases like Maslenjak v US, Kungys v US, Chaunt v US etc. I know they are doing it recently but they mostly target people who can’t afford to defend themselves legally. How many wealthy and well-connected immigrants get deported ? Same applies to naturalized citizens - it’s unfortunate but the legal system is set up this way.
 
cafeconleche said:
Yes of course, but do you want to deal with the hassle of an attempt at denaturalisation?
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Obviously not. You are right that they are getting very aggressive these days. Last year I had to sue them to get my citizenship although my case was squeaky clean (no crimes, no false claims to USC, no visits to home country etc). All I’m saying is that it’s highly unlikely that they will be able to prove such a case in court since there is no law that bars naturalized citizens or even green card holders to travel to their home country. Thankfully for me, if they ever try a de-naturalization in federal court, I can claim estoppel since they themselves agreed to stipulate the case instead of fighting it out in court. Double jeopardy/res judicata applies if a party concedes an issue or waives appeal after losing the case. So in cases like mine (1447b or 1421c lawsuits), the case will be dismissed even before proceeding.
That being said, I personally haven’t travelled to my home country ever since it’s not safe for me. I just don’t want people to get paranoid.
 
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