DEAL reached on Immigration Bill

As far as I understand they propose to essentially kill family-based immigration: eliminate four of the current family preference categories (1, 2B, 3, and 4), and introdice quota for parents (some websites say to 50,000 given that current number of petitions for parents is about 100,000 per year).
 
Why do people keep repeating this crap about "killing family based immigration". Where does it say that exactly?
 
IMHO, the bill do not solve the current illegal immigration issues (law breakers) while jeopardizing and degrade values of family reunification. Aren't we suppose to stay close to blood relatives?

What makes those law breakers (illegal immigrants) to comply with the proposed law? i.e. going back to their home country for certain years and apply for whatever visa... Aren't they law breakers already? What's the punishment(s) if they still breaking the law?

I think what works is:
If we need guest worker program for farm job or any other fields, just issue new type of employment visa (similar F Visa for skilled workers but this one is for unskilled needed fields) to fill our demand for the needed fields as much as the demand for the employees in the fields. Prioritized those illegal immigrants to apply so at least we open them a chance to stay here. We understand people want to stay here and there wasn't much choices back then for this type of immigrants. IMHO, in the future, guest worker program should be open to any citizens of any country not just Mexico or a certain country. Like DV lottery or somthing to keep it diverse because it's unfair if it doesn't. Then, just send the rest of the illegal immigrants back home. We have unemployment problems already in the States, why should we allow more people in? Those could raise crime rates.
What also fair is to sort out those illegal immigrants skills. We might need them to stay in here. We don't want to waste good brains right? If they're just staying here to dig out our gold and send it back to their home country, what's good this country get out of it?

Peace
 
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As far as I understand they propose to essentially kill family-based immigration: eliminate four of the current family preference categories (1, 2B, 3, and 4), and introdice quota for parents (some websites say to 50,000 given that current number of petitions for parents is about 100,000 per year).

Hi:

First, as Dr Iha points out, I don't know where you are coming out with this "killing business."

Second, (and I know I am really stirring things up now, but so what) I don't think putting a quota on parents would be so bad, for several reasons:
(1) Moving to the US was the child's choice - that does not entitle the parents to move to the US. It is a privilege, not a right.
(2) For the most part, parents moving to the US is not an economically efficient move for the country - most do not come bringing exceptional skills or work experience per se.
(3) I have answered TONS of posts involving parents with GCs (based on family immigration) who don't really want to live in the US (they actually reside in India or Europe or whatever) but just want to keep the GC as a backup. While of course, this does not represent all parents, it is a category that is severely abused in the immigration system.

Ultimately, the immigration system needs to serve the needs of the nation - not necessarily that of every individual.
 
I don't know where you are coming out with this "killing business."

What is your problem? You do not like the word "kiling"? OK, change it for "eliminating". The meaning does not change - in the area of family immigration this bill proposes to eliminate all family immigration except for what they call here "nuclear family" - spouses and minor children (+ some quota on parents).
Next, notice that I did not express any negative or positive feelings or thoughts about the nature of this bill - just stated what it is planned.

Concerning youe emoitions on the subject, we all understand that state and individual interests differ, and sometimes substantially. That is why, in addition to this bill provisions, GC holder has to wait for years before being able to bring a spouse, while spouses on H4 cannot work, while B visas for relatives of immigrants are rutinely refused in some countries etc.
Immigration law is inheritantly not fair - because it is aimed for protection of people already "in" from those who are "out" and whant "in".
Now, when society becomes reach enough, it can allow itself to care a bit not only about economic profit but also humanitarian values. The degree to which the society is willing to forgo some profit in exchange for "feeling good about itself" and making their disadvantaged members feeling good is a very difficult problem..
By not allowing new citizens to bring their relatives the country discriminates agains them compared to "old" citizens - who were born here, and thus have all their family network in place..
Specifically about parents. If you look at the immigration system in other developed countries, they do not welcome adult siblings and children, but ALL of them provide citizens with a possiblity to brong their parents, though some demand the proof that a parent is lonely and economivcally dependent fro the petitioneer. Why do you think it is so? Probably because traditional human culture assumes some depts with respect to our parents and abandonment them in the old age is considered immoral im majority of the cultures? And thus the law which nocompasses some moral values, not only short-term economic profit, follows that principle?
I would agree though that those who bring parents should support them themselves, and not try to put the burden on the state (and as far as I understand it is enforced in US till large extent by asking petitioneers t sign the affidavit of support).
 
What is your problem? You do not like the word "kiling"? OK, change it for "eliminating". The meaning does not change - in the area of family immigration this bill proposes to eliminate all family immigration except for what they call here "nuclear family" - spouses and minor children (+ some quota on parents).
The problem is not the language, but the truth of the statement. Nowhere have I read that family immigration is "eliminated", but simply that the priorities of immigration will change. Having to wait longer is not the same as having it eliminated.
 
Nowhere have I read that family immigration is "eliminated", but simply that the priorities of immigration will change. Having to wait longer is not the same as having it eliminated.
Well, read again. The bill does propose to eliminate most of the family based categories - F1, F2a, F3 and F4. If it passes, the extended family immigration will be eliminated indeed. Together with severe restrictions on parents (40K per year, given that about 120K who came on this category in 2006) it is “effectively” (!) killing of family immigration – definitely in the form it existed in USA for many years and on which new emigrants were counting when deciding whether to establish themselves here.
It reduces it to “nuclear family” immigration (and even that one is subject to long waits) – narrow interpretation of the word “family” which has degradingly utilitarian meaning (we admit, and grudgingly, only those family members without whom the worker we need would not come for sure because his/her everyday functioning depends on them being with him/her).
I for example recently had very attractive alternative offers from Europe, and one of the reasons I decided to stay (and that was a reason with the heavy weight) was that in US I saw a clear perspective of bringing my parents soon, while in other places it would take me longer (since I would have to start over the process of waiting for citizenship).
So personally I feel cheated by this bill.
 
Please, show me the text of the bill from thomas.loc.gov.
You surprise me. I am talking on the basis of information available. You are hinting it would be better to wait until the bill is published? Why? Anyway it only will be the first version, which will be discussed, amended, etc. first by senate and then by house..
And by the time we will see the final version it definitely would be to late to try to do anything (like write to a senator, or to do something at the level of one’s own family)
Note that I do no speak in front of the senate or judge, but just vent out on an internet forum. It is better to start discussing as soon as we heard something – that way we can understand situation and take actions as early as possible.
Finally, even if the version of the bill which will go to the senate will not be that restrictive wrt family immigration, the mere fact that it was seriously discussed as an option by a bi-partisan committee is an important information, which worries me since it shows some trends..
 
You are making argument w/o knowing how it will be eliminated.
You lost me here. I was not making any argument. It all started when I wrote the following:

"As far as I understand they propose to essentially kill family-based immigration: eliminate four of the current family preference categories (1, 2B, 3, and 4), and introdice quota for parents"

And that was at the moment the things did not come out widely in the news. So I was simply telling what they are talking about (not about initial, intermediate, or final formal form of any bill - about waht they are talking about) according to my ability to get current information. No more no less.

If next to it I made any argument, it was the argument baed on my current knowledge.
I repeat: I cannot tell "how it will be eliminated" - it ony can be told "how" once the final form of the bill is accepted by senate and house. But by that time it will be to late to do anything (except probably "making arguments" - in purely academic sense)
 
You surprise me. I am talking on the basis of information available. You are hinting it would be better to wait until the bill is published? Why?

Because then you'll have some specifics and can get a feel for the effect.

Look, this talk about a quota for Immediate Relative parents is an excellent example of what could be hysteria, or could be a valid concern. Do you know how large any quota will be? Not until you see the bill. Do you know how many parents immigrate as IRs every year? Is this number smaller or larger than the proposed quota? If it's smaller, then it's a non-issue for the time being.

That's why I keep reiterating that we wait until Monday to see what the specifics of the bill are, and what effect it may have.
 
Because then you'll have some specifics and can get a feel for the effect.

Look, this talk about a quota for Immediate Relative parents is an excellent example of what could be hysteria, or could be a valid concern. Do you know how large any quota will be? Not until you see the bill. Do you know how many parents immigrate as IRs every year? Is this number smaller or larger than the proposed quota? If it's smaller, then it's a non-issue for the time being.

That's why I keep reiterating that we wait until Monday to see what the specifics of the bill are, and what effect it may have.


I just cant understand how you do not have a clue about the current bill, almost every single detail was reveal in some form in the media, either by print, radio, tV, or internet. There was alot of interviews by persons who draft the legistation. F1, F2B, F3 and F4 will be eliminated after 8 years, only people who applied before May 2005 will be be processed, after that the category is no more. Its all to a points based system, where family ties will carry some points....Its time for you to do some research!
 
I just cant understand how you do not have a clue about the current bill, almost every single detail was reveal in some form in the media, either by print, radio, tV, or internet. There was alot of interviews by persons who draft the legistation. F1, F2B, F3 and F4 will be eliminated after 8 years, only people who applied before May 2005 will be be processed, after that the category is no more. Its all to a points based system, where family ties will carry some points....Its time for you to do some research!

Ok, smarty pants if you know so much about the law - how many points are required, and how many points does each qualification count for?

If there is a limit on parents, what is the exact number?

After all, if "every single detail" has been revealed, you should have this information, right? :rolleyes:
 
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