Can a GC be revoked based on ...

[JMJ]

Gurus/Senior Members,

Can a sponsor(employment based) be successful in getting the GC revoked based on :

leaving the sponsor(employer) after 3/6 months of getting the GC ?

Any practical cases where a GC was revoked for a beneficiary for the above reason (or) it can be a potential problem down the road when applying for Citizenship and not for GC.

Gurus - whats yr take on this?

Thanks,
JMJ

 

[harvydonald]

The only way GC can be revoked, is if the employer cries fraud. But if they claim fraud....they would be implicated in the fraud as well.

Gurus/Senior Members,

Can a sponsor(employment based) be successful in getting the GC revoked based on :

leaving the sponsor(employer) after 3/6 months of getting the GC ?

Any practical cases where a GC was revoked for a beneficiary for the above reason (or) it can be a potential problem down the road when applying for Citizenship and not for GC.

Gurus - whats yr take on this?

Thanks,
JMJ

 

[Micronesia]

Gurus/Senior Members,

Can a sponsor(employment based) be successful in getting the GC revoked based on :

leaving the sponsor(employer) after 3/6 months of getting the GC ?

Any practical cases where a GC was revoked for a beneficiary for the above reason (or) it can be a potential problem down the road when applying for Citizenship and not for GC.

Gurus - whats yr take on this?

Thanks,
JMJ

This is infact a trillion $ Q going on from many years in many forums with out an solid answer and generally known case.
(This Q was rounding even this forums since the year 2002,(if I remeber it vaguley till today.you can see the archives).
However I give below some info' in general about few 'rescinding' issues.
Theoretically it is Yes for 'rescinding' green cards,as the process goes .
The condiotions can be for example:
1)The 485 approved in error when priority date is not current.
In this case CIS can 'rescind' GC as 'adminstrative' procedure.
(The approval doen't confer any right to holder to claim back.There is a CIS regulation) .
See details at:http://www.murthy.com/news/n_app485.html.
2)Approval of 485 revoked or GC 'rescinded' because employer has with drawn under lying 140(though AC21 letter sent and this revoke is an error).
This shows first CIS will act which you need to fight.
See details:http://www.murthy.com/news/n_risres.html.
3)Revoking GC when employer complains about 'no intent to serve by employee' (with full evidence ofcourse and when employer is not at fault).
may be possible.
One lawyer's site says they knew some instances (but gives no specifics).
3)CIS regualtion reg. 'rescinding' GC approved in 'error' has time limit of 5 years but under different regulations--'rescinding' GC obtained under 'fraud'
has no time limit and they can take action any time in a life span.
So what is the conclusion.
Generally the cases of 'revoking' on above gorunds are rare(But cancelling/ rescinding GC because the 'terms' of GC were not follwed like 'abondoning residence' are more prevalent>There was a Q in this forum reg.having GCs of neighboring countries.Obtaing GC of canda after US GC was not viewed lighly in some REP cases and when Strong ties to US were not proved and GC was 'cancelled' or 'rescinded' at POE--search and see some case law cases.Does every case issue was pursued?No.It is chance till CIS is serious and finds it out).
Does each case of violation is pursued?may not be but it is a chance.
That does mean one is 90% safe.can never say.
Finally-- it depends on the strength of the each case.
The above is not scare any one but just you can be better postioned incase there is a problem any of these.
Coming to emp. GC,If you can prove that you have the 'intention'(by doc. evidence like letters.mails,payment etc)to serve the employer,even if he claims any fraud you will come out unscathed even he may bully you initially.
But outcome solely depends entirely 'on you' again.

 

[JMJ]

no intent to serve by employee

Thanks for yr inputs harvydonald and micronesia.

Micronesia - Regarding revoking GC when employer complains about 'no intent to serve by employee' - Is it correct to say that this "no intent" thing is something that cannot be proved without a grain of doubt ? I know most believe that if you have worked atleast 6 months for the sponsoring employer after getting the GC,then the argument of "no intent to serve by employee" can be overcome or nullified. And there are some who say if you can switch employers when yr GC is pending,then why not leave yr sponsor immediately after receiving GC. Now is it safe that all depends on what level of risk one is willing to take ?

Are there any cases you guys know of that is documented in this forum wherein one's GC was revoked/rescinded solely on the fact that he left the sponsoring employer say within a month/2/3 months of getting a GC ?

Thanks,
JMJ

 

[TheRealCanadian]

The only way GC can be revoked, is if the employer cries fraud. But if they claim fraud....they would be implicated in the fraud as well.

I don't see how the employer is automatically implicated in the fraud. If I quit the day after I get my Green Card, there's nothing that automatically implies that the employer had knowledge of my fraudulent intent - in fact, the very act of complaining would be a strong counter-indication.

 

[Micronesia]

Are there any cases you guys know of that is documented in this forum wherein one's GC was revoked/rescinded solely on the fact that he left the sponsoring employer say within a month/2/3 months of getting a GC ?

Thanks,
JMJ

The striaight answer is a 'Nope'(My prevoius reply elaborates the 'nope' and of the circumustance of 'nope').
2/3 months --search this forum for 'Seihoon' case.you get an indirect idea.
Rest is your call.

 

[ginnu]

Gurus/Senior Members,

Can a sponsor(employment based) be successful in getting the GC revoked based on :

leaving the sponsor(employer) after 3/6 months of getting the GC ?

Any practical cases where a GC was revoked for a beneficiary for the above reason (or) it can be a potential problem down the road when applying for Citizenship and not for GC.

Gurus - whats yr take on this?

Thanks,
JMJ

Here is some info posted by a lawyer in the past
Question of Obligation of 485-Approved-Alien to Work for the Employer

As more people will get 485 approvals, people question what their obligations are under the law.
Without doubt, Green Card does not mean one will become a permanent slave to the employer. Then what is their obligation?
There is no hard and fast rule on the question. It is basically the issue of "intent" of the employer and alien employee. For instance, if the employer sponsored green card with no intention to keep him/her indefinitely, employer was commiting "fraud." The same is true if the alien employee applies for green card with no intention to work for the employer indefinitely. It all boils down to question of "real intent" which is a "state of mind" that can be established by either a direct evidence or circumstantial evidence.
If one starts going into the open market to look for a permanent job with another employer and intends to move to the second employer as soon as the green card is granted through the current employer, it should be a classific example of fraud. Should the INS obtain such evidence, the INS may start cancellation proceeding. Additionally, if one quits the job as soon as one gets the green card approval, it will be construed as reflection of the state of mind of the alien that he/she did not have any intention to work for the employer. There are two relevant analogies on the required period of employment. DOL defines permanent employment as the one that lasts for a year or longer. On the other hand, in the nonimmigrant context, both the INS and the DOS adopt so-called the rule of presumption of misrepresentation in case an alien enters the U.S. on a certain type of visa and within 60 days attempts to change the status to other nonimmigrant visa or immigrant status. However, when it comes to presumption of certain state of mind, no court will accept one year period of time as the basis of determining one's state of mind. It is a close call, but unless there is a clear and direct evidence that the alien had such state of mind, it should be much less period than one year and definitely more than two or three months.
If an alien loses the job as soon as he/she gets the green card because of the factors which are beyond their control, the alien will be in good shape. For instance, if the alien is terminated by the employer within one week for whatever reasons, he/she will be in good shape. If the company shuts down in a few days, the alien will be in good shape, even though there is a question of employer having committed a misrepresentation as to the issue of continuing existence of permanent job at the time of INS approving the green card.
Please do not assume that even if one commits such a wrongdoing, one will permanently escape the net. In various occasions in the future, including naturalization application or immigrant petition for family members, it may haunt and throw another opportunity for the INS to review his/her immigration history. Wise persons will not form a "preconceived intent" to use the employer for the sole purpose of obtaining green card and immediately abandone that employer as soon as his/her scheme is achieved. Please remember that inasmuch as such state of mind was not formed at the time of obtaining the green card, but certain circumstanstances have developed afterwards, one is in good shape. Time of intent and time of act will be critically important when such legal tangle develo

 

[Jackolantern]

There are some who never worked for the sponsoring employer before getting the GC, and after the GC still never went to work for them. They probably have the weakest footing if the employer decided to complain.

For marriage-based green cards the line has been drawn at two years. Eventually there will be a court case, and either by court ruling or an explicit law there will probably be solid lines drawn instead of this grey area for employment-based cases. The longer you stay is the less the risk of falling on the wrong side of the line.

 

[JMJ]

Thanks Guys!!

Thanks Real Canadian,Micronesia,ginnu,Jackolantern for yr inputs.

Jack - Belated congrats on yr GC !!


JMJ

 

[jack144]

Yes, I agree with TheRealCanadian that the employer may not be part of the fraud.

But, the only thing that is not clear is the AC21 rule.... If one can leave 6 months afte 485....and if it takes say 2 years for GC, why can't one leave after GC?

I think AC21 must have clarified on this as well....

I don't see how the employer is automatically implicated in the fraud. If I quit the day after I get my Green Card, there's nothing that automatically implies that the employer had knowledge of my fraudulent intent - in fact, the very act of complaining would be a strong counter-indication.

 

[Jackolantern]

But, the only thing that is not clear is the AC21 rule.... If one can leave 6 months afte 485....and if it takes say 2 years for GC, why can't one leave after GC?

Because AC21 only means you are changing the sponsor, not that you suddenly become free of needing sponsorship. Note the requirement to have a "same or similar" job. You change jobs before getting the GC, the new employer becomes your sponsor and it is them you should stay with after getting the GC (or go back to the original sponsoring employer).

 

[jack144]

Agreed.. the new employer assumes the sponsor role. However, AC 21 does not limit on the # employers you can change... So, that means that if you leave a company after GC and join another, then the latest becomes the new "sponsor" ?

Because AC21 only means you are changing the sponsor, not that you suddenly become free of needing sponsorship. Note the requirement to have a "same or similar" job. You change jobs before getting the GC, the new employer becomes your sponsor and it is them you should stay with after getting the GC (or go back to the original sponsoring employer).

 

[Jackolantern]

Agreed.. the new employer assumes the sponsor role. However, AC 21 does not limit on the # employers you can change... So, that means that if you leave a company after GC and join another, then the latest becomes the new "sponsor" ?

Changing jobs right after the GC gives them the impression that you were simply waiting for the GC to leave the job, not that you honestly wanted to work for the company for the long term.

Reading through posts like this: http://immigrationportal.com/showpost.php?p=1675278&postcount=45 shows that some people are getting hassled at the citizenship interview over the job changes, even though their citizenship is eventually approved. As USCIS observes the growing trend of people leaving their jobs shortly after the GC, they might get more strict about it by the time you are eligible for citizenship. Nobody knows what they will decide at that time, but the longer you stay and the fewer job changes is the better.

 

[viveaga1]

Quite job after Green Card

I read above posts and also read below link
http://immigrationportal.com/showpos...8&postcount=45

Does it mean its safe to quit job after 6 months of getting green card? Did anybody talked to lawyer and got concrete answer?

 

[GC-4-All]

Changing jobs right after the GC gives them the impression that you were simply waiting for the GC to leave the job, not that you honestly wanted to work for the company for the long term.

Reading through posts like this: http://immigrationportal.com/showpost.php?p=1675278&postcount=45 shows that some people are getting hassled at the citizenship interview over the job changes, even though their citizenship is eventually approved. As USCIS observes the growing trend of people leaving their jobs shortly after the GC, they might get more strict about it by the time you are eligible for citizenship. Nobody knows what they will decide at that time, but the longer you stay and the fewer job changes is the better.

I think it is not fair to say that an employee is not supposed to leave for a certain period after he gets a GC. Given the retrogression, the employee has already waited for 5 years or more to get his GC. So, I think it is case by case.

This rule applies in the typical scenerio where one gets a GC approved in less that 2 years. The USCIS is in a mess, they do not have time to go back and disapprove an approved case.

I got approved in June and still waiting for physical card. I have got an awesome offer and I'm quitting the current job(it's a hell).

PD: Nov 2002 EB3 India
AD: Jun, 2007

 

[Jackolantern]

I think it is not fair to say that an employee is not supposed to leave for a certain period after he gets a GC.

News flash: US Immigration law and USCIS are not based on fairness.

Given the retrogression, the employee has already waited for 5 years or more to get his GC. So, I think it is case by case.

It will be case by case until they set some explicit criteria, like the 2-year rule which exists for marriage-based green cards. Of course, the time frame if they ever set one will be shorter than 2 years for employment-based.

This rule applies in the typical scenerio where one gets a GC approved in less that 2 years. The USCIS is in a mess, they do not have time to go back and disapprove an approved case.

They don't have time to hunt down people who left their employer too fast, but if/when you apply for citizenship they are forced to spend time scrutinizing your green card, and at that point they do have time to deny citizenship applications or recommend revocation of a green card if the situation warrants it.

 

[GC-4-All]

What if some one applies for Citizenship late??? What about people who do not work at all after GC???

 

[ginnu]

What if some one applies for Citizenship late???
-----------------if you apply Citizenship AFTER 5 years(or 5years 2-3 months) then USCIS may deny Citizenship but for GC cancellation proceeding they have to go to Court
What about people who do not work at all after GC???
--------------------many ladies got GC and are homemaker for Citizenship it is not must that one should work AFTER GC.
if employer filed GC and person got GC then he/she need to work for some time with Employer(many lawyers say 5-6 month is Ok) or get fired

---------------

 

[Jackolantern]

What if some one applies for Citizenship late??? What about people who do not work at all after GC???

The later you apply is the less likely they are to bother you about what happened right after getting the GC, and the more trouble they will have to go through to revoke the green card. The N-400 form only asks for your last 5 years of employment history; if you wait 9 years to apply it shouldn't raise any eyebrows that the sponsoring employer isn't on that 5 year list.

Those who got an employment-based GC as the primary applicant but didn't work at all could have some problems.

 

[JMJ]

Right to the point - Good job Jack

I'm still puzzled and amused at people still talking abt fairness when it comes to USCIS. Jack - I can't agree with you more, you are right to the point.

In one of the other posting,someone was saying that it is paranoid if U are scared to quit yr employer after GC. My answer: Hey - this whole leaving yr employer thing after GC is all depending on yr situation, how much of a risk U're willing to take and stuff like that. This point is discussed and explained in detail by seniors and gurus in this forum exhaustively.

If U r willing to get potentially screwed if and when U apply for citizenship - that is yr call,but calling people paranoid for whom citizenship is important and not willing to take that risk is absurd. If U want to bury yr head in the sand and pretend that USCIS will not catch U or no scrutiny at citizenship - Good Luck with that!!

JMJ

News flash: US Immigration law and USCIS are not based on fairness.

It will be case by case until they set some explicit criteria, like the 2-year rule which exists for marriage-based green cards. Of course, the time frame if they ever set one will be shorter than 2 years for employment-based.

They don't have time to hunt down people who left their employer too fast, but if/when you apply for citizenship they are forced to spend time scrutinizing your green card, and at that point they do have time to deny citizenship applications or recommend revocation of a green card if the situation warrants it.