Benefits for older parents who never worked in the US?

[pmpforgc]

Years in which Paid TAXES but not SS/Medicare Counts?

Hi

Thanks every one for their input. I think there are two aspect of contribution we are talking about. I am not talking any thing about contributions in the foreign country in any way. Also we have to assume that at the time of claim he/she is Permanent Resident/ Citizen

One contribution is TAXES ( FEDERAL and STATE) which every one who is employed pays, irresepctive of their immigration and citizenship status.

Other is Social Security and Medicare etc. which you can not pay (even if you wish) unless you are in Country for atleast five year (means resident for tax purpose, that is what I think) or you are LPR or you are Citizen.I think you dont meet FICA requirements for contribution unless you are resident for the tax purpose.

Now keeping all above in the view I have following questions

(1) Does the years (or quarters) during you paid Taxes (federal and State) but did not paid ( because you can not legally pay) Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, count as meeting 10 yrs (40 quarters) requirements to Claim Social Security benefits.

(2) Does the years (or quarters) during you paid Taxes (federal and State) but did not paid ( because you can not legally pay) Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, count as meeting 10 yrs (40 quarters) requirements to Claim Medicare benefits

(3)Does the years (or quarters) during you paid Taxes (federal and State) but did not paid ( because you can not legally pay) Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, count as meeting 10 yrs (40 quarters) requirements to Claim Medicaid benefits.

Also I see spouse's social security contribution columns also in the Social Secutiry Statement that I received first time last year. So my question is

(4) Does they combine spouse's work quarters (contributions) for some of the purpose of calculating meeting requirements for the some of the SS,MEDICARE and MEDICAID benefits/Claims? If yes for what benefit they combine those contributions?

Thanks again . I think above questions may be important as many of us contributed as NON-Immigrant to the US FEDERAL TAXES. sO it is usefull to know waether those years are counted to meets SS, Medicare, Medicaid requiremtents ONCE YOU BECOME PERMANENT RESIDENT AND/OR CITIZEN

 

[TheRealCanadian]

Other is Social Security and Medicare etc. which you can not pay (even if you wish) unless you are in Country for atleast five year (means resident for tax purpose

I don't know where you got this idea. You don't need to be in the US for five years to pay FICA, nor do you need to be here for 5 years to become a resident for tax purposes. I became a US resident for tax purposes the day I entered the US ten years ago.

You are over-complicating things. If you paid FICA, then that counts towards the 40 quarters - forget whether you paid federal/state taxes or not; that is irrelevant. Odds are, unless you were here on an F, J, M or L visa, you paid FICA.

 

[pmpforgc]

You can not pay FICA till you are resident for Taxes

For candian citizen you might be true.

But as I entered as student (f-1) (from India) I was not considered resident for tax purpose. So SS and Medicare Medicaid were not deducted till I complted 5 yrs and I was on OPT by that time.

Hope this helps you understand that FICA can not be paid by resident of some countires and they are not considered resident for tax purpose till they complete 5 yrs.

Can you now give views on my questions.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

For candian citizen you might be true.

It has nothing to do with citizenship. As I pointed out, if you were in F status then you by definition cannot be considered a tax resident and do not pay FICA, but if you enter in a different status (like H) then you pay FICA from day one. Nothing to do with citizenship or five years. There are other cases (some L holders) where you can be a tax resident and not pay FICA.

And in answer to your question, if you did not pay FICA, then that time does not count towards the 40 quarters for SS/Medicare. End of story. Medicaid is state-defined and means-tested, and varies by state.

 

[thankful]

Yes, it does. Is there some federal statute that dictates Medicaid eligibility of non-citizens who paid into SS pool for ten years?

Yes, federal law provides that a green card holder (not just any non-citizen, green card holder only) who has paid SS/Mediciare taxes for ten years must be treated on the same basis as citizens for Medicaid eligibility (and many other benefits too). The ten year period apparently includes the time when you were not yet a green card holder but they will take out any time period when you received public assistance.

One wrinkle is that states can choose to deny Medicaid eligibility within the first five years of the person's obtaining his green card even if the 10 year rule has been satisfied.

Congress created a number of very complicated rules.

 

[thankful]

Many of US work several yrs before becoming LPR (green card holder) and pay federal and state taxes ( but not Social security and medicare etc. as I think)

You pay social security taxes even before you are a green card holder (for example H1B visa). There are limited exceptions. One is when you are on a student visa.

 

[thankful]

Also for some of the benefits, they also combine work of spouse, can some one high light for what type of SS, medicare or Medicaid benefits they combine work quarters of spouse, to meet 10 yr requirements.?

You can claim the SS/Medicare taxes paid by your spouse (you two must be married at the time the tax was paid) and your parent (when you were under 18) for purposes of the 10 year rule for getting public assistance.


For social security benefits the rules are different. If your spouse becomes eligible for social security benefit you can receive benefit based on her record. You will get half of the amount she will get.

 

[thankful]

I don't know about Medicare or Medicaid, but I know that the years contributing to SS before obtaining a green card count towards your SS eligibility. However, depending on your country of citizenship, you may not be able to collect SS unless you get at least a green card at some point.

The law is quite clear (since 1996) that to receive SS benefits in the US you must have a lawful immigration status.

 

[thankful]

It has nothing to do with citizenship. As I pointed out, if you were in F status then you by definition cannot be considered a tax resident and do not pay FICA, but if you enter in a different status (like H) then you pay FICA from day one. Nothing to do with citizenship or five years. There are other cases (some L holders) where you can be a tax resident and not pay FICA.

And in answer to your question, if you did not pay FICA, then that time does not count towards the 40 quarters for SS/Medicare. End of story. Medicaid is state-defined and means-tested, and varies by state.

This is right on the money.

 

[thankful]

For candian citizen you might be true.

But as I entered as student (f-1) (from India) I was not considered resident for tax purpose. So SS and Medicare Medicaid were not deducted till I complted 5 yrs and I was on OPT by that time.

Hope this helps you understand that FICA can not be paid by resident of some countires and they are not considered resident for tax purpose till they complete 5 yrs.

Can you now give views on my questions.

You are partially correct. The general rule is that aliens are subject to FICA taxes like everyone else. The law then has an exception for the following categories of visa:

A-visas. Employees of foreign governments are exempt on salaries paid to them in their official capacities as foreign government employees.
The exemption does not automatically apply to servants of employees of such foreign governments.
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children of A nonimmigrants who are employed in the United States by anyone other than a foreign government.
D-visas. Crew members of a ship or aircraft may be exempt if the vessel is a foreign vessel and the employer is a foreign employer, or if the services are performed outside of the United States
Crew members of an American vessel or aircraft who perform services within the United States ARE subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes.
Crew members of an American vessel or aircraft who perform services outside the United States ARE subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes if:
the employee signed on the vessel or aircraft in the United States; or
the employee signed on the vessel or vessel outside the United States but the vessel or aircraft touches a U.S. port while he is employed thereon.
F-visas, J-visas, M-visas, Q-visas. Nonresident Alien students, scholars, professors, teachers, trainees, researchers, physicians, au pairs, summer camp workers, and other aliens temporarily present in the United States in F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrant status are exempt on wages paid to them for services performed within the United States as long as such services are allowed by USCIS for these nonimmigrant statuses, and such services are performed to carry out the purposes for which such visas were issued to them.
Exempt Employment includes:
On-campus student employment up to 20 hours a week (40 hrs during summer vacations)
Off-campus student employment allowed by USCIS.
Practical Training student employment on or off campus.
Employment as professor, teacher or researcher.
Employment as a physician, au pair, or summer camp worker
Limitations on exemption:
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children in F-2, J-2, M-2, or Q-3 nonimmigrant status.
The exemption does not apply to employment not allowed by USCIS or to employment not closely connected to the purpose for which the visa was issued.
The exemption does not apply to F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrants who change to an immigration status which is not exempt or to a special protected status.
The exemption does not apply to F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrants who become resident aliens.
G-visas. Employees of international organizations are exempt on wages paid to them for services performed within the United States by employees of such organizations.
The exemption does not automatically apply to servants of employees of such international organizations.
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children of G nonimmigrants who are employed in the United States by anyone other than an international organization.
H-visas. Certain nonimmigrants in H-2 and H-2A status are exempt as follows:
An H-2 nonimmigrant who is a resident of the Philippines and who performs services in Guam;
An H-2A nonimmigrant admitted into United States temporarily to do agricultural labor.

But the law then takes away that exemption from students who have been here for more than five years.

so yes your experience was valid but do not generalize from that to include all aliens!!!

 

[thankful]

Medicare and SS eligibility has nothing to do with taxes, and everything to do with FICA contributions which are levied on US earned income only. You need to have contributed for 40 quarters to be eligible. Contributions made in another country with whom the US has a totalization treaty may count towards the 40 quarters for SS, but not Medicare.

Additionally, Medicare eligibility will in practice depend on permanent residency, since you need to be in the US for eligibility. I am exceptionally skeptical that Medicare will pay a foreign provider.

FICA contributions are technically a form of tax. They are not income taxes but they are taxes (often called payroll taxes)

 

[pmpforgc]

So what happens to yrs as student

Thankful , appreciate your detailed look. Also real candain fro going to basic.

So I understand they dont deduct FICA taxes for the students (f-1) becuase they are legally exempted from that.

But still FEDERAL and STATE taxes are paid by students as F-1.

So my last question is THOSE YEARS OF STUDENT EMPLOYMNENT DOES NOT COUNT in 40 QUARTERS (10 YRS) requirements?

Also thankful you mentioned that they combine spouse quarters also. Does that mean that If I use my spouse quarters his/her benefits get reduced? or it is just to meet 40 quarter requirements?

thanks again for you continued explantaions.

You are partially correct. The general rule is that aliens are subject to FICA taxes like everyone else. The law then has an exception for the following categories of visa:

A-visas. Employees of foreign governments are exempt on salaries paid to them in their official capacities as foreign government employees.
The exemption does not automatically apply to servants of employees of such foreign governments.
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children of A nonimmigrants who are employed in the United States by anyone other than a foreign government.
D-visas. Crew members of a ship or aircraft may be exempt if the vessel is a foreign vessel and the employer is a foreign employer, or if the services are performed outside of the United States
Crew members of an American vessel or aircraft who perform services within the United States ARE subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes.
Crew members of an American vessel or aircraft who perform services outside the United States ARE subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes if:
the employee signed on the vessel or aircraft in the United States; or
the employee signed on the vessel or vessel outside the United States but the vessel or aircraft touches a U.S. port while he is employed thereon.
F-visas, J-visas, M-visas, Q-visas. Nonresident Alien students, scholars, professors, teachers, trainees, researchers, physicians, au pairs, summer camp workers, and other aliens temporarily present in the United States in F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrant status are exempt on wages paid to them for services performed within the United States as long as such services are allowed by USCIS for these nonimmigrant statuses, and such services are performed to carry out the purposes for which such visas were issued to them.
Exempt Employment includes:
On-campus student employment up to 20 hours a week (40 hrs during summer vacations)
Off-campus student employment allowed by USCIS.
Practical Training student employment on or off campus.
Employment as professor, teacher or researcher.
Employment as a physician, au pair, or summer camp worker
Limitations on exemption:
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children in F-2, J-2, M-2, or Q-3 nonimmigrant status.
The exemption does not apply to employment not allowed by USCIS or to employment not closely connected to the purpose for which the visa was issued.
The exemption does not apply to F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrants who change to an immigration status which is not exempt or to a special protected status.
The exemption does not apply to F-1,J-1,M-1, or Q-1/Q-2 nonimmigrants who become resident aliens.
G-visas. Employees of international organizations are exempt on wages paid to them for services performed within the United States by employees of such organizations.
The exemption does not automatically apply to servants of employees of such international organizations.
The exemption does not apply to spouses and children of G nonimmigrants who are employed in the United States by anyone other than an international organization.
H-visas. Certain nonimmigrants in H-2 and H-2A status are exempt as follows:
An H-2 nonimmigrant who is a resident of the Philippines and who performs services in Guam;
An H-2A nonimmigrant admitted into United States temporarily to do agricultural labor.

But the law then takes away that exemption from students who have been here for more than five years.

so yes your experience was valid but do not generalize from that to include all aliens!!!

 

[TheRealCanadian]

So my last question is THOSE YEARS OF STUDENT EMPLOYMNENT DOES NOT COUNT in 40 QUARTERS (10 YRS) requirements?

No, since you didn't contribute to FICA during that time. The 40 quarters refers to 40 quarters' worth of FICA contributions, not paying income tax.

 

[thankful]

Thankful , appreciate your detailed look. Also real candain fro going to basic.

So I understand they dont deduct FICA taxes for the students (f-1) becuase they are legally exempted from that.

But still FEDERAL and STATE taxes are paid by students as F-1.

So my last question is THOSE YEARS OF STUDENT EMPLOYMNENT DOES NOT COUNT in 40 QUARTERS (10 YRS) requirements?

Also thankful you mentioned that they combine spouse quarters also. Does that mean that If I use my spouse quarters his/her benefits get reduced? or it is just to meet 40 quarter requirements?

thanks again for you continued explantaions.

If you did not pay social security tax then you got no social security credits that counted toward the 10 year rule. The qui pro quo is simple: you pay into the social security trust fund and you get credits. No payment no credit.

 

[thankful]

Also thankful you mentioned that they combine spouse quarters also. Does that mean that If I use my spouse quarters his/her benefits get reduced? or it is just to meet 40 quarter requirements?

Her benefits will not be reduced due to that.

 

[thankful]

Thankful , appreciate your detailed look. Also real candain fro going to basic.

So I understand they dont deduct FICA taxes for the students (f-1) becuase they are legally exempted from that.

But still FEDERAL and STATE taxes are paid by students as F-1.

So my last question is THOSE YEARS OF STUDENT EMPLOYMNENT DOES NOT COUNT in 40 QUARTERS (10 YRS) requirements?

Also thankful you mentioned that they combine spouse quarters also. Does that mean that If I use my spouse quarters his/her benefits get reduced? or it is just to meet 40 quarter requirements?

thanks again for you continued explantaions.

Unless you are close to retirement there is no reason for you to be worried about those "lost" years. Your monthly social security benefit will be based on your inflation-adjusted average earning from 35 years of working. Welfare is of course a different story.

 

[Jackolantern]

The law is quite clear (since 1996) that to receive SS benefits in the US you must have a lawful immigration status.

If you are still in the US when you're old enough to collect, you will need a legal status. But if you've gone back to your country and neither have a green card nor citizenship, and your country is on the list of countries that has an agreement with the US that would allow you to collect SS from the US, you wouldn't need to be in any US immigration status.

 

[thankful]

If you are still in the US when you're old enough to collect, you will need a legal status. But if you've gone back to your country and neither have a green card nor citizenship, and your country is on the list of countries that has an agreement with the US that would allow you to collect SS from the US, you wouldn't need to be in any US immigration status.

That is correct. My message was addressing the situation where the person was living in the United States. The person did not have to be a green card holder. A lawful alien status would do (for example, temporary protected status).

 

[pmpforgc]

Spouse combinations

Her benefits will not be reduced due to that.

Dear Thankful

Appreciate your answers. I was having same understanding that when FICA contribution starts, 40 quarters calculation starts.

I am no where close to retirement, I want to work another twenty yrs atleast. but in last several months i have been diagnoised with medical condition, which might not allow me to work as much as I wish, so just wanted to learn the options, if in case I need to use those. I denfinately dont want to use those.

Any way you mentioned that spouse quarters can be combined for the calculation of the 40 quarters. Can you little bit eloborate on that. Or can link to the reference which talks about combining those in case of early needs of SS, Medicare and Medicaid or in case of need for disability benefits. How things are different in case of disability in comparision to regular benefits.

thanks

 

[nati309]

Contributions made in another country with whom the US has a totalization treaty may count towards the 40 quarters for SS, but not Medicare.

TheRealCandaian,

Where can I find the list of the countries that have such agreement with US? Am I understanding you correctly that depending on what country you are from, it could be that work related contributions paid there will count towards 40 quarters for SS in the US?

thanks!