B-2 visa for visit & courses

[Candlemore]

Hi everyone

I have recently applied for a B-2 visa with my Irish passport. I am aware of the VWP facility but the reason for the B-2 was that I am envisaging doing some professional development courses in architecture colleges that run for about 4 months each. I explained I also plan on spending another month or so visiting a few friends on both coasts and a cousin living on a green card in Florida. They seemed to be satisfied with my bank statements and proof of ties. But upon hearing the word 'study', they suggested a J-1 and said they would put my application on hold until I provide them a I-20 form from the relevant college.

I argued that I am visiting friends AND also taking a couple of short courses, which is the truth, whatever the order of the facts is. Am I right in thinking that after financial stability and ties are proven, this should fit the requirements for a B-2? One argument I heard repeatedly from the officer is that 'the main factor determining your length of stay in America is your course, not visiting your friends and family'. Does that matter at all since a B-2 allows for 6-months stays and my intention is to do both anyway?

Because of the courses' short-term status, no I-20 can be issued, meaning a J-1 is unlikely. I am worried that maybe I should withdraw my application, not to have a 'visa denied' stamp on my file, which I assume would complicate things if I ever tried to visit the US at a later date? I also heard that 'normally no one goes to the US for that amount of time just for a visit'. If that's the case, why would B-2 visas be offered for 6 months?

Also if I did get the B-2, would officers be likely to stop me at POE if I only have enrollment papers from the university, instead of an official I-20 form?

Any thoughts or advice, from anyone who's been in that situation or not, would be very appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[Triple Citizen]

You are wrong and the consul is correct on this one.

Am I right in thinking that after financial stability and ties are proven, this should fit the requirements for a B-2? One argument I heard repeatedly from the officer is that 'the main factor determining your length of stay in America is your course, not visiting your friends and family'.

 

[Candlemore]

Thanks for your input, Triple Citizen, but could you possibly develop on that, rather than just saying it's right or wrong?

What I am having problems with is figuring out what criteria they are using to analyze my application? I have the impression that had I not mentioned the course in my interview, I would've been given a B-2 visa to see friends and family. Then, after enrolling, I could apply for an extension from inside the US. Sounds like I am being penalized for trying to be transparent.

Besides, what is the problem with doing a short course, since there are executives that go to the US on B-2 visas to attend these courses and mention that purpose for the outset and a 6-month stay on a B-2 is common practice?

 

[Triple Citizen]

The issue here is relatively simple. The interviewing consul adjudicates every visa application based on his/her interpretation. Firstly just look at sheer time. If (keep in mind "if" and I will re-circle to this later) you are given entry for 6 months and you spend 4 months at this course, you are spending two thirds of your time at that course. I do not blame the consul for his/her interpretation.

Now, coming back to another point. Even if you get a B-2 visa and arrive at a US POE, the officer at the POE will re-question the purpose of your visit and based on your intentions and declarations will decide whether to grant you entry or not. The officer will also decide how long to grant you entry for. So being allowed "6 months as a tourist" too is never a guarantee.

Do you see why the consul is not issuing you a B-2 visa now?

What I am having problems with is figuring out what criteria they are using to analyze my application? I have the impression that had I not mentioned the course in my interview, I would've been given a B-2 visa to see friends and family. Then, after enrolling, I could apply for an extension from inside the US. Sounds like I am being penalized for trying to be transparent.

Besides, what is the problem with doing a short course, since there are executives that go to the US on B-2 visas to attend these courses and mention that purpose for the outset and a 6-month stay on a B-2 is common practice?

 

[Candlemore]

Certainly, your point is clear. My problem with the process is that the consul has to be subjective in his/her decisions. After an exhaustive online research, I seemed to fulfill every requirement necessary for a B-2, down to the 'under 18 hours per week study time' rule. And I have proven ties and financial stability, all boxes seemingly ticked. And still, based on assumptions by someone who I never even met, I am being denied a course that would be very important for my career, which compounds my frustration.

I also understand that no matter what visa I am given, the length of my stay in America is, ultimately, for the border officer to decide. But as far as I've researched, extensions are far from difficult to obtain if you have enough documentation to prove your case. Which would probably make one want to conceal any plans of attending a course, for fear of being considered a potential immigrant and eventually denied a visa. Once inside the US with, say, a 2-month visa to visit your family then one is free to try a visa extension. It's a better deal than no visa at all.

Thanks again for the input, Triple Citizen. It looks like I'll have to find somewhere else to spend my professional development semester.

 

[BigJoe5]

You should have applied for admission to the college and sought an F-1 academic student visa or M-1 vocational student visa, as applicable. J-1 is bad because of the 2 yr home residency requirement that it would probably invoke and attach to you. B-2 might be OK for one who is "looking for a school" and might be issued a B visa annotated as "prospective student" but you appear to have a school and program selected already.

VWP is wrong for you but as you have to jump through hoops anyway, select the right hoops.

 

[Triple Citizen]

Welcome to the world of being at the mercy of someone's discretion. Unfortunately, there are times in our lives when we all fall victim to it!!!

And still, based on assumptions by someone who I never even met, I am being denied a course that would be very important for my career, which compounds my frustration.

 

[Candlemore]

Thanks for the suggestion, BigJoe5. The problem with these short courses is that their enrollment process is very simplified, meaning the registration can be done entirely online and begins only a few weeks before the course. For that reason, I only had website printouts and a lot of research to show my study intentions, which probably does not look very legit to a consul's eyes, even if they are Harvard's. Also, because they're short courses, colleges do not issue I-20 forms, which seem to be a basic condition for any student visas.

The VWP gives me 3 months - if I'm lucky - and I am aware it cannot be extended. I am actually a dual citizen of Ireland and Brazil but even then I cannot figure out a way of perhaps using my dual nationality to legally overcome this limitation on my length of stay. But obviously, I would prefer to use one passport only to avoid any possible misunderstandings by immigration officers.

And Triple Citizen, yes, the world can be unfair sometimes. I think discretion is always best applied with discretion!

 

[indoubt1]

any answer?

hello candlemore.

I have read your post and i am in the same situation too . I have a US b1/b2 visa valid for 10 years. I am planning to go to the US in a week for a short 4 month course which is only one class per week. Can i go there with out having any problems in the POE. Please let me know if i can go on a b1/b2 visa or any information on this will be greatly helpful.