Avoiding Immigration Intent

D

davidralf

Registered Users (C)
Others must be seeing this same problem. Let’s hear your feedback and thoughts on how best to navigate around the immigration intent question when on TN status.

I’ve been in the States on TN status now for 13+ years. During that time we’ve had 2 children born in the States who are now 7 and 12. Just last weekend I got a new 3 year TN, the very first question I was asked was “how many TNs have you had before”. Fortunately I was able to be crafty with the response focusing around those for a specific employer vs total TNs and the question was dropped. It got me thinking though, I need a bullet proof response to the immigration intent question.

I never have a problem crossing the boarder by myself. Seems the agent doesn’t even have immediate access to my immigration history, however crossing the boarder with my family is an entirely different story. Once an agent sees our kids and the fact they were born in the US the unpleasant questioning begins about why I’ve been on TN status for so long. The fact is all my assignments have been temporary, none more than 3 years and we have absolutely no desire to immigrate.
We don’t own property in Canada ( actually we do in the States ) and after 13+ years as you can image have severed most ties to Canada. What then is the best defense when put on the grill about immigration intent? So far I have the following:

a) The fact that I’ve been in the Sates as long as I have been and not bothered to pursue immigration should be a clear indicator that I have no immigration intent.
b) All my assignments have been temporary in nature and across different companies. So long as my work and reason for being here remains temporary regardless of how long I’ve previously been here it should be clear we have no long term plans to remain.
c) It should not be unreasonable to assume that my family would follow with me to the States and that during our stay require a residence and some level of assimilation normally expected of a family into a community ( schools, drivers license, banking ..etc )
d) I’m already on approved TN status. A review of my immigration intent would have already been reviewed when my status was updated and obviously the approving officer at the time did not see any reason for me not to continue with my temporary status.

What else?

These are all good points, but maybe not strong enough for the CBP Agent who is having a bad day. Maybe I’m looking for the magic “get out of jail” card that doesn’t exist, but I want a well thought out response to this question the next time we cross.

Any thoughts?
 
davidralf said:
Others must be seeing this same problem. Let’s hear your feedback and thoughts on how best to navigate around the immigration intent question when on TN status.

I’ve been in the States on TN status now for 13+ years. During that time we’ve had 2 children born in the States who are now 7 and 12. Just last weekend I got a new 3 year TN, the very first question I was asked was “how many TNs have you had before”. Fortunately I was able to be crafty with the response focusing around those for a specific employer vs total TNs and the question was dropped. It got me thinking though, I need a bullet proof response to the immigration intent question.

I never have a problem crossing the boarder by myself. Seems the agent doesn’t even have immediate access to my immigration history, however crossing the boarder with my family is an entirely different story. Once an agent sees our kids and the fact they were born in the US the unpleasant questioning begins about why I’ve been on TN status for so long. The fact is all my assignments have been temporary, none more than 3 years and we have absolutely no desire to immigrate.
We don’t own property in Canada ( actually we do in the States ) and after 13+ years as you can image have severed most ties to Canada. What then is the best defense when put on the grill about immigration intent? So far I have the following:

a) The fact that I’ve been in the Sates as long as I have been and not bothered to pursue immigration should be a clear indicator that I have no immigration intent.
b) All my assignments have been temporary in nature and across different companies. So long as my work and reason for being here remains temporary regardless of how long I’ve previously been here it should be clear we have no long term plans to remain.
c) It should not be unreasonable to assume that my family would follow with me to the States and that during our stay require a residence and some level of assimilation normally expected of a family into a community ( schools, drivers license, banking ..etc )
d) I’m already on approved TN status. A review of my immigration intent would have already been reviewed when my status was updated and obviously the approving officer at the time did not see any reason for me not to continue with my temporary status.

What else?

These are all good points, but maybe not strong enough for the CBP Agent who is having a bad day. Maybe I’m looking for the magic “get out of jail” card that doesn’t exist, but I want a well thought out response to this question the next time we cross.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


Lying to immigration is not a good idea. Since you think a "crafty" response is acceptable, "craft" another one.
 
davidralf said:
a) The fact that I’ve been in the Sates as long as I have been and not bothered to pursue immigration should be a clear indicator that I have no immigration intent.
Click to expand...
Assume nothing is “clear” to a officer. These guys are not on your side of the law in fact they are on the opposite side. The officers are trained to assume that every foreign national entering the United States is a possible immigrant.

davidralf said:
b) All my assignments have been temporary in nature and across different companies. So long as my work and reason for being here remains temporary regardless of how long I’ve previously been here it should be clear we have no long term plans to remain.
Click to expand...
They don’t necessarily care about the duration of your previous jobs, but since the total time may have exceeded their definition of “temporary” they are now going to scrutinize your case for the current job, and since they already are trained to assume you may immigrate at some point, now they are going to turn up the heat to show that your current job is not temporary either.

davidralf said:
c) It should not be unreasonable to assume that my family would follow with me to the States and that during our stay require a residence and some level of assimilation normally expected of a family into a community ( schools, drivers license, banking ..etc )
Click to expand...
Assume nothing is “unreasonable” to an officer. They don’t give 2 beaver craps about your family. They need to protect their border, and the economy of the United States. And if that means denying you entry, they will. They have the means and the power to do it at any time you enter, and they can make it stick at any other border crossing.

davidralf said:
d) I’m already on approved TN status. A review of my immigration intent would have already been reviewed when my status was updated and obviously the approving officer at the time did not see any reason for me not to continue with my temporary status.
Click to expand...
Incorrect assumption. Since the officers are trained to presume that every single foreign national entering the United States has the potential to become an immigrant, they need to treat every foreign national as a person who may apply to be permanent at any time. Therefore with this mindset in tow, the officer can deny your entry upon ANY attempt to enter the United States, not only during the initial petition for a TN.

Remember, these officers are not on your side. They are not your friends. They do not care about your well-being. They do not care about how difficult your life will be if they deny your entry. They do not care about how difficult it will be for you to gather your things, sell your house, and collect your family, all the while when you are stuck in Canada. You are just another foreign national that wants to get into *THEIR* country. To them, you are an alien This is not your country, and the fact you are here is a privileged, not a right.. They are there to do a job that consists of defending the United States border, not only for terrorists, but also pests, disease, illegal products, and in your case, the economy and employment rate.
I’ve had problems with them before. They can really be a-holes. You were lucky this time, that the guy was nice. He could have unloaded some crap on you, but he didn’t.
 
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OP admits he has few ties to Canada and many to the US. In addition, he admitted to being deliberately deceptive (in my world that is the same as lying) in his responses to the immigration official.

I do not understand why, OP, you feel that it is necessary to try to "work" the system if you have a reasonable case for working n the US. Based on your original posting regarding your position, I would not have expected it to be a problem. Obviously, there is something not quite right either with you or your employer given your approach.
 
Concerned4us said:
I do not understand why, OP, you feel that it is necessary to try to "work" the system if you have a reasonable case for working n the US. Based on your original posting regarding your position, I would not have expected it to be a problem. Obviously, there is something not quite right either with you or your employer given your approach.
Click to expand...

He is anticipating denial of entry due to his extended stay, and rightfully so since others have been blocked from entry due to the same reason, and their TN revoked.

It seems he is preparing for a debate with the officer. Personally I have found that a debate with an officer is futile.
 
Concerned4us said:
OP admits he has few ties to Canada and many to the US.
Click to expand...

That does not immigrant intent make, and a TN holder does not require ANY ties to Canada, merely citizenship.

In addition, he admitted to being deliberately deceptive (in my world that is the same as lying) in his responses to the immigration official.
Click to expand...

He's not being deceptive at all, he's picking his words carefully. I'm surprised you don't know how important this is. You're dealing in the same Kafka-esque world where CBP agents make up their own interpretation of the laws, and where careful wording is critical. Take, for example, a TN holder with an approved I-140. When asked if they intend to immigrate, there are three possible answers - two of which will result in (at best) denial of entry. You absolutely have to carefully craft your answers, because the system requires on to.

I do not understand why, OP, you feel that it is necessary to try to "work" the system if you have a reasonable case for working n the US. Based on your original posting regarding your position, I would not have expected it to be a problem. Obviously, there is something not quite right either with you or your employer given your approach.
Click to expand...

Because this forum's very existence is more than ample evidence of the need to "work the system" for people who want to go to the US for any purpose beyond a week at Disney World.

You really should stop projecting your opinions into what you imagine are questions of fact.
 
Concerned4us said:
OP admits he has few ties to Canada and many to the US. In addition, he admitted to being deliberately deceptive (in my world that is the same as lying) in his responses to the immigration official.

I do not understand why, OP, you feel that it is necessary to try to "work" the system if you have a reasonable case for working n the US. Based on your original posting regarding your position, I would not have expected it to be a problem. Obviously, there is something not quite right either with you or your employer given your approach.
Click to expand...

TNers don't need to maintain ties to their home country which makes perfect sense. How do you maintain ties to your home country when you are living and working in US?

Concerned, with all respect, as a US citizen who never lived in a foreign country, I can see why it is difficult for you to understand the hardship a foreign national have to go through to maintain legal immigration status while protecting his/her career and everything he/she has earned in US. Simplying having a legitimate job, the right qualification, and the right mentality does not always mean you'll have no problem with immigration authority. There can be lots of complications. The OP here simply wants to be prepared in case he gets into an undesireable situation with US immigration officials.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
davidralf said:
Others must be seeing this same problem. Let’s hear your feedback and thoughts on how best to navigate around the immigration intent question when on TN status.

I’ve been in the States on TN status now for 13+ years. During that time we’ve had 2 children born in the States who are now 7 and 12. Just last weekend I got a new 3 year TN, the very first question I was asked was “how many TNs have you had before”. Fortunately I was able to be crafty with the response focusing around those for a specific employer vs total TNs and the question was dropped. It got me thinking though, I need a bullet proof response to the immigration intent question.

I never have a problem crossing the boarder by myself. Seems the agent doesn’t even have immediate access to my immigration history, however crossing the boarder with my family is an entirely different story. Once an agent sees our kids and the fact they were born in the US the unpleasant questioning begins about why I’ve been on TN status for so long. The fact is all my assignments have been temporary, none more than 3 years and we have absolutely no desire to immigrate.
We don’t own property in Canada ( actually we do in the States ) and after 13+ years as you can image have severed most ties to Canada. What then is the best defense when put on the grill about immigration intent? So far I have the following:

a) The fact that I’ve been in the Sates as long as I have been and not bothered to pursue immigration should be a clear indicator that I have no immigration intent.
b) All my assignments have been temporary in nature and across different companies. So long as my work and reason for being here remains temporary regardless of how long I’ve previously been here it should be clear we have no long term plans to remain.
c) It should not be unreasonable to assume that my family would follow with me to the States and that during our stay require a residence and some level of assimilation normally expected of a family into a community ( schools, drivers license, banking ..etc )
d) I’m already on approved TN status. A review of my immigration intent would have already been reviewed when my status was updated and obviously the approving officer at the time did not see any reason for me not to continue with my temporary status.

What else?

These are all good points, but maybe not strong enough for the CBP Agent who is having a bad day. Maybe I’m looking for the magic “get out of jail” card that doesn’t exist, but I want a well thought out response to this question the next time we cross.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

As someone who spent 11 consecutive years on a TN AND was denied my 14th TN I can truthfully say that when you start getting questioned regarding how many previous TN's you have had and how many consecutive years you've been in the US you are "on the radar".
I started hearing "what will you do at the end of this TN" around 2006, my 9th TN, and the last 2 before 2008 i was told "this will be your last TN". I think I got away with the last 2 at the border because neither lasted more than 8 months in duration. My last project was 14 months in duration with a mail-in extension I'm betting had I gone to the border for the extension I would've been denied then.
I'm betting you have this TN and possibly 1 more then you'll run into major issues... ie an outright denial or a time limited TN with the "once you're done you must leave" order.
If I were you I'd start talking with your current employer about a GC and I'd do it soonest rather than later. You have a fresh 3 yr. TN I'd not be waiting until the last year to start working on strategy.
If your current employer isn't interested in a GC application I'd suggest you start looking for one that will do it.
If you can't get into a GC then I'd start formulating an exit strategy to canada so you have enough lead time to save $$'s and have an orderly, controlled exit from the US back to Canada.
Trust me, you DO NOT want to get denied and have to deal with retrieving your household and/or your wife and kids while on opposite sides of the border.
Finally, always assume they know EVERY TN you have ever had and when/where you got your current TN. USDHS agents are trained to trip you up. Answer only the questions asked and volunteer NOTHING to these people.
If they ask you how many TN's and/or how long yo've been in the US answer truthfully. Be professional. Grovelling does not work, neither does purposeful omission of facts.
 
Thank you all for the interesting feedback here.

To help clarify my "crafty" response to the CBP Agent on the number of TNs, the question exactly was: "How many TNs have you had", my response: "This is the first TN for this employer". Questioning then went into why I was finishing with one employer and starting with another. To help those that got hung up on this, I certainly never ever condone outright lying or being deceptive. You do however need to be very careful answering any question and never volunteer any information that was not asked for.

In any event, I find it completely frustrating that using a work status as it has been designed to be used can put you in such an undesirable situation. TN is not an immigration visa and you should not be using it for that purpose. The fact is though that many individuals work across a collection of temporary positions, sometimes for years as this is the nature of their work in the industry they are in. I have never been established with a company in any sort of long term relationship that would warrant obtaining a green card. In fact, it is typical that I've been across multiple TNs at once, having up to 4 at one time as well as doing part time work in other countries while still doing work in the US. This is all temporary work and that is exactly what the TN is designed for. The problem of course is that the collection of temporary work over many years begins to paint a different picture, one that I'm now trying to deal with and searching for the best strategy to navigate.
 
I am on a TN visa now, and my wife is from a country that can participate in the Green Card Lottery. This last week, we got notification from the Department of State that we have won the lottery. I have not started any process as of now, do you think this is an "immigrant intent" and for the simple reason of having applied for the lottery my TN can be cancelled. How would they know in the border I did so? What is my best bet? What if I am denied GC and I my TN gets cancelled and I can not get anymore TN's in the future like this guy who has been here for 13 years now.

Please advice.
 
When you submit i-485, you will no longer be allowed to renew or enter US on TN. So make sure you have TN time left, are able to stay in US for a few months, and apply the lotery.
 
So you dont think that the fact I am on a TN is enough to cancel my GC application? Remember that a TN Visa has no dual intent as an H1B and L visa. that is my fear.
 
Moye said:
So you dont think that the fact I am on a TN is enough to cancel my GC application? Remember that a TN Visa has no dual intent as an H1B and L visa. that is my fear.
Click to expand...

My wife filed her I-485 when in B-2 status. You are allowed to file an I-485 in any non-immigrant status except C and D.
 
As TRC said, the AOS application is rarely in jeopardy. What is lost isthe ability to file/enter on non-immig status.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
Take, for example, a TN holder with an approved I-140. When asked if they intend to immigrate, there are three possible answers - two of which will result in (at best) denial of entry.
Click to expand...
Could you please give the examples for such case? I know the correct wording is important in many situations not only boarder crossing.

Experienced people, is there some specific wording (or specific facts mentioned) should be used in offer letter for TN visa? As far as I understand, advanced degree requirement and term position should be mentioned, am I right? I have H1B but never had TN visa before.
Thanks!
 
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