Application from Outside the US

[BigJoe5]

@BigJoe5: Why so much hostility?

@Everone except BigJoe5
So if N-400 gets denied, can I return to the US and apply? Why would I have to get into legal battle?

It's frustration. I see folks making the same mistakes over and over again. I see the same incorrect arguments over and over again. I offer up explanations and folks fight absolutely everything and anything I offer. It often comes down to what somebody heard from a friend of a friend of an acquaintance that thinks they might have heard something about a guy (second or third hand) that he thinks might have had a successful outcome in a sort of but not quite similar case or something like that, maybe they think, perhaps.

IF I provide just the answer, they fight about how stupid that answer is.

IF I provide complete legal arguments and trace the numerous statutory and regulatory cross-references and precedent cases involved then I am attacked as providing way too much information and "cluttering" these threads.

That's a big part of why I don't visit these forums as much as I used to. I get to feeling like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't AND it's easier if I don't bother at all. I won't bother you anymore, but seriously, I will look for the updates on your case if you post them.

 

[baikal3]

@BigJoe5: Why so much hostility?

@Everone except BigJoe5
So if N-400 gets denied, can I return to the US and apply? Why would I have to get into legal battle?

Yes, if your N-400 is denied, you generally can re-apply later, once you have satisfied the requisite eligibility requirements.

However, there are also some other things to worry about. If you apply now, you have to be careful not to provide anything that USCIS may consider to be false or misleading information on your application. If USCIS decides that you did provide some false/misleading material information, this could not only result in the denial now, but could also adversely affect your future N-400 application(s).

E.g. you are already facing a catch-22 situation in answering Question A in part 4 of N-400 which asks for your home address.
If you list a foreign address there, your application will certainly be denied (maybe even rejected and returned immediately upon receipt). If you list your old U.S. address in answering that question, this might conceivably be viewed as a false or misleading answer since you currently reside abroad. You'll be in a similarly dicey situation when answering other questions in N-400 asking about employment history and address history.

 

[Bobsmyth]

I have been out only for 20 months of the last 5 years at the time of application and so satisfy physical presence with 40 months. I am trying to determine if unlike re-entry permit, I am allowed to file N-400 from abroad. If not I will come file, do FP and leave. I maintain rental residence in the US.

If you're out of the US temporarily, you can still apply from outside the US for naturalization provided you otherwise meet the eligibility requirements for naturalization.

 

[HumHongeKamyaab]

I am on a 3 year (36 months) international assignment. The assignment started after 38 months physical presence post green card approval (08/2010). Is this temporary absence from US? 19 months of the international assignment are complete.

In November or December this year, I will lose the 30 month physical presence eligibility in last 5 yrs.

baikal3 brings up a good point about address. I have not filed ar-11 for international address as that form did not allow for foreign address. So I have kept using the US address where I maintain residence and use on tax filings, banks, employer etc. I was not planning on putting foreign address on the application as I have been moving frequently and using hotels and guest house very frequently. But now maybe I will list these.

I have approved REP and N-470 (472) petitions. I works for the same employer that sponsored my GC and lived in the same district where employer is based pre and post GC until I left for the international assignment. My wife telecommutes, so her entire pay is taxed in the US. I use the foreign tax treaty benefit but still file both state and federal taxes.

I am required to travel back to the US every 4 to 5 months, so I have not had > 6 months absence from the US. I do travel extensively in the Asia-Pacific region.

@BigJoe5: I am trying to build my understanding based on the peer intelligence on the forum. For example, last year Jackolatern provided gr8 tips on foreign tax credit so as not to claim non-residence status. That advice was something even immigration attorney did not provide. So if you can help me out here that would be great. If you feel it is a downright bad idea for me to apply for n-400, that is good feedback too. I am not really trying to get justification for n-400 application.

Other issues on my application would be 2 traffic citations (speeding in 2001) and (lane change in 2007). I do not have copies of these. I had them dropped by takin defensive driving class. Did not have to pay any fines. 2007 incident did involve an accident and the citation made be the at-fault party.

If you're out of the US temporarily, you can still apply from outside the US for naturalization provided you otherwise meet the eligibility requirements for naturalization.

 

[Jackolantern]

baikal3 brings up a good point about address. I have not filed ar-11 for international address as that form did not allow for foreign address. So I have kept using the US address where I maintain residence and use on tax filings, banks, employer etc. I was not planning on putting foreign address on the application as I have been moving frequently and using hotels and guest house very frequently. But now maybe I will list these.

AR-11 is for tracking your location within the US; you're not supposed to use it for reporting your foreign addresses. And since you are continuing to lease a residence in the US, with your overseas addresses being varied and temporary for the purpose of your assignment and not actual residences, don't list the foreign addresses on the N-400 either (but you can explain them if necessary in the interview). Listing foreign addresses may be interpreted as acknowledging that your primary residence is outside the US, so don't do that.

Go ahead and apply before you go below 30 months of physical presence. The combination of the N-470 and continuing to pay to rent a house/apt in the US and keeping all trips below 6 consecutive months will put you in good shape for approval.

 

[HumHongeKamyaab]

Interview and Oath done. Officer did bring up time outside the US first thing in the interview and then said you have approved N472. Was all your time outside the US for work for the employer on N-472. Yes. Then you are OK. I had another trip after FP which I added and she confirmed again if that was also for the N-472 employer.

Thanks Jackolantern for your help.

BigJoe5:
This is my update posted and I have not ran away.

AR-11 is for tracking your location within the US; you're not supposed to use it for reporting your foreign addresses. And since you are continuing to lease a residence in the US, with your overseas addresses being varied and temporary for the purpose of your assignment and not actual residences, don't list the foreign addresses on the N-400 either (but you can explain them if necessary in the interview). Listing foreign addresses may be interpreted as acknowledging that your primary residence is outside the US, so don't do that.

Go ahead and apply before you go below 30 months of physical presence. The combination of the N-470 and continuing to pay to rent a house/apt in the US and keeping all trips below 6 consecutive months will put you in good shape for approval.

 

[immlegal]

bailkal3 and bigjoe5 are so wrong and yet so convinced about what they think is the law. jackolantern and bobsmyth are correct (no surprise), as evidenced by humhongekamyaab's (HHK) experience.

I saw someone's comment (i think baikal3) in another thread that HHK's success may be because the IO was confused, or he might have misrepresented. What baloney! The IO was entirely correct, and multiple attorneys have confirmed to me that this is entirely appropriate and consistent with the law.

I just joined this forum and saw these posts and feel compelled to correct the erroneous opinions posted with such confidence!

 

[immlegal]

I re-read bigjoe5's frustrated post. Truly hilarious!!!

I think it is very beneficial if you don't post on this forum, especially when you are so wrong.

 

[baikal3]

I re-read bigjoe5's frustrated post. Truly hilarious!!!

I think it is very beneficial if you don't post on this forum, especially when you are so wrong.

Reported to the moderators.

 

[immlegal]

Curious what you reported?

I just seconded bigjoe5's own self proclamation about not checking these posts, etc etc.

and btw, let's hear you admit that your opinions on the issue of applying for N400 from abroad, posted in so many threads, are wrong.

 

[vandeluca]

Congrats. I have a question. What did the IO ask you about 'Was all your time outside of the US for work for the employer"....What else did he think you were going to say to give you a 'NO NOT OK Answer?"..Like you relocated or something? Just curious about that part of the interview. Perhaps I missed something in all the arguing

So am I to interpet that if you have a REP ..as long as you are out for that purpose, they will not give you a hard time? I ask because my spouse has a REP which he applied for during his father's long illness-for that reason alone. He has since passed and it expires (March 2013) and none of the family stuff is done (ie Executor Issues). My husband is the Executor. He really wants to get this done it is so intensive and we are considering going abroad now for a few months with multiple trips back to the US (ranging from 1 to 3 weeks at a time). He has more than enough physical presence already...but we are just to the time in a few weeks to apply for the N-400 and don't want to blow it. The IO I am afraid may decide that we have relocated back..especially since I am a citizen of that country (nautrualized) now as well and I would just put our child in school there (unless I homeschooled but there is no point when the school is great)...

Interview and Oath done. Officer did bring up time outside the US first thing in the interview and then said you have approved N472. Was all your time outside the US for work for the employer on N-472. Yes. Then you are OK. I had another trip after FP which I added and she confirmed again if that was also for the N-472 employer.

Thanks Jackolantern for your help.

BigJoe5:
This is my update posted and I have not ran away.

 

[ptking]

FYI, I got my citizenship a week ago. I applied from abroad with an approved N-470. My interview and oath were on the same day at the San Francisco USCIS office. Mine was an administrative oath in front of a USCIS official in his office.

Bottom line:

1. If you have an approved N-470, and have accumulated the required physical residence, you CAN apply from abroad.
2. When applying, you can submit fingerprints on the FBI FD-258 cards and save a trip to the US for biometrics. I did not do this myself as I was not aware this was possible.
3. The 90-day residence requirement is NOT for the 90 days immediately preceding the filing of the N-400. Basically, you should have resided in that district for that period at SOME time in the past.
4. USCIS takes the view that an approved N-470 preserved BOTH continuous residence in general AND residence in the last district you lived in before leaving the US.

 

[itsa]

Timeoutside USA section in N400 while on N470 and overseas

Hi HHK

I am exact same boat (N470 + REP, currently abroad with my family).
Can you please confirm how you finally filled your "time outside the USA" section? Also, in your (or wife's) application form - did you use overseas address anywhere at all?

Thanks!

Interview and Oath done. Officer did bring up time outside the US first thing in the interview and then said you have approved N472. Was all your time outside the US for work for the employer on N-472. Yes. Then you are OK. I had another trip after FP which I added and she confirmed again if that was also for the N-472 employer.

Thanks Jackolantern for your help.

BigJoe5:
This is my update posted and I have not ran away.