PraetorianXI
Banned
what conditions are you talking about?
Advice: moving out of the country with GC.
- Thread starter klmasters
- Start date
what conditions are you talking about?
rick92
Volunteer Moderator
US Citizenship
I believe that if the US Govt can prove that you acquired US Citizenship with intent and purpose of living outside the US, they can start proceedings to revoke the citizenship.- I also believe that the first year of US Citizenship you have to stay put, meaning not living permanently elsewhere outside of the US.-
I believe that if the US Govt can prove that you acquired US Citizenship with intent and purpose of living outside the US, they can start proceedings to revoke the citizenship.- I also believe that the first year of US Citizenship you have to stay put, meaning not living permanently elsewhere outside of the US.-
rick92
Volunteer Moderator
In order to ensure retention of U.S. citizenship, U.S. citizens may wish to assert their citizenship status by actions confirming a continuing intent to retain U.S. citizenship. These could involve a contemporaneous written statement confirming the citizen's desire to retain U.S. citizenship, submitted to a U.S. consulate or the DOS. The U.S. citizen should also continue paying U.S. income taxes, obtaining U.S. passports, and maintaining retaining property and other ties to the United States after the expatriating act takes place to evidence an intention not to relinquish citizenship. However, as stated in the DOS policy statement, such action is not necessary where the presumption applies.
austriacus
Registered Users (C)
rick92, can you provide a link or reference so I can read your interesting paragraph in context? And what presumption are they referring to? Thanks!
If someone were to give up their foreign citizenship to become a US citizen and then moves to another country and doesn't maintain ties with the US, let's assume they would really be stripped of US citizenship, what would they be? Stateless? Would natural born US citizens have to follow these conditions too to keep their citizenship (or does their birthright suffice to keep it wherever they move to on this planet)? And how about those US citizens who were born abroad to US parents but never moved to the US? How about dual citizens who choose to live in their other country of citizenship?
TheRealCanadian
Volunteer Moderator
The only action a US citizen needs to retain citizenship after departing the US is remaining alive.
rick92
Volunteer Moderator
US Citizenship
Good questions.
I have been doing little research on these questions.
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.htm
then another article that might interest you ( I. R. S. )
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ch01.html
and for natural born citizens of US, it does not apply.
____________________________
If someone were to give up their foreign citizenship to become a US citizen and then moves to another country and doesn't maintain ties with the US, let's assume they would really be stripped of US citizenship, what would they be? ; Stateless? Would natural born US citizens have to follow these conditions too to keep their citizenship (or does their birthright suffice to keep it wherever they move to on this planet)? And how about those US citizens who were born abroad to US parents but never moved to the US? How about dual citizens who choose to live in their other country of citizenship?[/QUOTE]
Good questions.
I have been doing little research on these questions.
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_777.htm
then another article that might interest you ( I. R. S. )
http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8854/ch01.html
and for natural born citizens of US, it does not apply.
____________________________
If someone were to give up their foreign citizenship to become a US citizen and then moves to another country and doesn't maintain ties with the US, let's assume they would really be stripped of US citizenship, what would they be? ; Stateless? Would natural born US citizens have to follow these conditions too to keep their citizenship (or does their birthright suffice to keep it wherever they move to on this planet)? And how about those US citizens who were born abroad to US parents but never moved to the US? How about dual citizens who choose to live in their other country of citizenship?
[/QUOTE]
rick92
Volunteer Moderator
austriacus
Registered Users (C)
rick92,
thanks for the interesting links. Please correct me if I'm interepreting this incorrectly, but the links you provided are mostly concerning voluntary renunciation of US citizenship, where someone actually intends to give up their citizenship.
I suppose it's good to know that there is a formal process for giving up US citizenship. For instance, I know that if I were to become a US citizen and lose Austrian citizenship in the process, I would be able to reclaim Austrian citizenship later (as a natural born Austrian, so to speak) but would have to renounce my US citizenship in the process (which is an Austrian requirement to reclaim Austrian citizenship).
Many of the sections of the Department of State document seem to actually make it pretty difficult to "lose" US citizenship voluntarily. For instance, it states that "the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality required for purposes of finding loss of nationality under Section 349(a) of the INA does not exist where a renunciant plans or claims a right to continue to reside in the United States, unless the renunciant demonstrates that residence will be as an alien documented properly under U.S. law". So essentially, if you renounce your US citizenship but stay here as an illegal alien, they'll say you never planned to really lose your citizenship.
This one is interesting too:
Persons considering renunciation should also be aware that the fact that they have renounced U.S. nationality may have no effect whatsoever on their U.S. tax [...] obligations [, n]or will it allow them to escape [...] repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as a United States citizen abroad.
Of course they'll still want your cash even if you renounce your citizenship!
I suppose the (involuntary) revocation of US citizenship for naturalized citizens is covered in INA Act 340. Looks to me mostly concerned with fraud and misrepresentation of immigration documents leading up to naturalization, and revocation of citizenship by those who have sponsored others who later obtained citizenship.
thanks for the interesting links. Please correct me if I'm interepreting this incorrectly, but the links you provided are mostly concerning voluntary renunciation of US citizenship, where someone actually intends to give up their citizenship.
I suppose it's good to know that there is a formal process for giving up US citizenship. For instance, I know that if I were to become a US citizen and lose Austrian citizenship in the process, I would be able to reclaim Austrian citizenship later (as a natural born Austrian, so to speak) but would have to renounce my US citizenship in the process (which is an Austrian requirement to reclaim Austrian citizenship).
Many of the sections of the Department of State document seem to actually make it pretty difficult to "lose" US citizenship voluntarily. For instance, it states that "the intention to relinquish U.S. nationality required for purposes of finding loss of nationality under Section 349(a) of the INA does not exist where a renunciant plans or claims a right to continue to reside in the United States, unless the renunciant demonstrates that residence will be as an alien documented properly under U.S. law". So essentially, if you renounce your US citizenship but stay here as an illegal alien, they'll say you never planned to really lose your citizenship.
This one is interesting too:
Persons considering renunciation should also be aware that the fact that they have renounced U.S. nationality may have no effect whatsoever on their U.S. tax [...] obligations [, n]or will it allow them to escape [...] repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as a United States citizen abroad.
Of course they'll still want your cash even if you renounce your citizenship!
I suppose the (involuntary) revocation of US citizenship for naturalized citizens is covered in INA Act 340. Looks to me mostly concerned with fraud and misrepresentation of immigration documents leading up to naturalization, and revocation of citizenship by those who have sponsored others who later obtained citizenship.
Triple Citizen
Registered Users (C)
Wrong. There was a one year US residency post-citizenship clause pre-1986. It is no longer applicable.
OK - this has gotten interesing, and probably a little beyond my comprehension.
For the reapplying for a GC issue - what happens when a US citizen marries abroad then decides to move back to the US with his/her wife? How is that dealt with? It must happen... In fact I can think of a famous example - Bill Bryson - who moved from the UK to the US with his British wife and children after living in the UK for 20 years.
I'm not eligible yet for naturalization as far as I am aware. Filing for citizenship would seem to remove many problems, but I've only been a LPR for ~2 years (not quite right - since Aug 2006) despite having been in the US more than 7 years. It's too bad in many ways that this chace to live abroad didn't come a bit later so I could have gotten citizenship before we left... but that's life.
OK- this may apply to us. My husband is accepting a fixed term (3 year) postdoc appointment at a universitiy in the UK. We haven't done the paper work yet, but I understand that he will not be filing for an immigrant visa to the UK, but a non-immigrant one, so hopefully that will help too.
So again I think this applies. We have a date - at the end of the 3 year contract. In fact it might even be a 2+1 yr, or a 1+1+1 year contract (postdoc contracts suck) so at any given time we would have a fixed date in mind for return. These statements makes me feel better about arguing that the absence is temporary actually. I guess USCIS might take some persuading, but we'll try our best.
Well this is where I've got into trouble with these boards before. In fact I think I started a thread to try to debate stuff like this 2 years ago. USCIS sees it differently I know, but I consider that as the wife (and now mother) of a US citizen I have the right to be a permanent resident - maybe there are conditions I need to fill, and that's fine, but I'm not trying to do anything wrong or "cheat the system" I'm just trying to make the best life for my family, which happens to be international, and multi-cultural. I also don't consider the US to necessarilly be the best place in the world to live ("my first best hope") and would be perfectly happy living elsewhere if my husband and child are also happy and safe and we have enough money to live off. In fact given the current status of the dollar now seems to be a great time to try living elsewhere!
For the reapplying for a GC issue - what happens when a US citizen marries abroad then decides to move back to the US with his/her wife? How is that dealt with? It must happen... In fact I can think of a famous example - Bill Bryson - who moved from the UK to the US with his British wife and children after living in the UK for 20 years.
I'm not eligible yet for naturalization as far as I am aware. Filing for citizenship would seem to remove many problems, but I've only been a LPR for ~2 years (not quite right - since Aug 2006) despite having been in the US more than 7 years. It's too bad in many ways that this chace to live abroad didn't come a bit later so I could have gotten citizenship before we left... but that's life.
OK- this may apply to us. My husband is accepting a fixed term (3 year) postdoc appointment at a universitiy in the UK. We haven't done the paper work yet, but I understand that he will not be filing for an immigrant visa to the UK, but a non-immigrant one, so hopefully that will help too.
So again I think this applies. We have a date - at the end of the 3 year contract. In fact it might even be a 2+1 yr, or a 1+1+1 year contract (postdoc contracts suck) so at any given time we would have a fixed date in mind for return. These statements makes me feel better about arguing that the absence is temporary actually. I guess USCIS might take some persuading, but we'll try our best.
Well this is where I've got into trouble with these boards before. In fact I think I started a thread to try to debate stuff like this 2 years ago. USCIS sees it differently I know, but I consider that as the wife (and now mother) of a US citizen I have the right to be a permanent resident - maybe there are conditions I need to fill, and that's fine, but I'm not trying to do anything wrong or "cheat the system" I'm just trying to make the best life for my family, which happens to be international, and multi-cultural. I also don't consider the US to necessarilly be the best place in the world to live ("my first best hope") and would be perfectly happy living elsewhere if my husband and child are also happy and safe and we have enough money to live off. In fact given the current status of the dollar now seems to be a great time to try living elsewhere!
This not legal advise but I heard about this before. Please check out the link and I am pasting some information from the link that I think is pretinent.
http://www.legalserviceindia.com/immigration/us_greencard_holder.htm
"Spouse of Permanent Resident Employed Abroad
An exception to these requirements is for time spent outside the US during which a person is considered to be constructively present in the US. Under the US Immigration and Nationality Act, the residence requirements are waived if the applicant is the spouse of a US citizen who is (i) a member of the U.S. Armed Forces, or (ii) an employee or an individual under contract to the US Government, or (iii) an employee of an American institution or research recognized by the US Department of Homeland Security, or (iv) an employee of an American-owned firm or corporation engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce for the US, or (v) an employee of a public international organization of which the United States is a member by law or treaty, or (vi) a person who performs ministerial or priestly functions for a religious denomination or an interdenominational organization with a valid presence in the US. If the citizen spouse is employed for at least one year according to an employment contract or order, then the residency requirements are waived. As per the applicable law, the citizen spouse’s employment abroad must be for a period of at least one year. If this requirement is met, the naturalization application can be filed before the employment abroad begins. There is no minimum required residence in the US or a minimum period for which the applicant must have been a permanent resident. The applicant must, however, declare his or her intention to reside permanently in the US upon the termination of the spouse’s foreign employment.
If a person has broken the continuity of residence he or she may re-apply for naturalization four years and one day following the date of his or her return to the US to resume residence. If the statutory 3-year period is involved, then it is two years and one day following his or her return to the US. In addition, during war times, soldiers being deployed overseas are eligible for citizenship without meeting the normal residency requirements."
http://www.legalserviceindia.com/immigration/us_greencard_holder.htm
"Spouse of Permanent Resident Employed Abroad
An exception to these requirements is for time spent outside the US during which a person is considered to be constructively present in the US. Under the US Immigration and Nationality Act, the residence requirements are waived if the applicant is the spouse of a US citizen who is (i) a member of the U.S. Armed Forces, or (ii) an employee or an individual under contract to the US Government, or (iii) an employee of an American institution or research recognized by the US Department of Homeland Security, or (iv) an employee of an American-owned firm or corporation engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce for the US, or (v) an employee of a public international organization of which the United States is a member by law or treaty, or (vi) a person who performs ministerial or priestly functions for a religious denomination or an interdenominational organization with a valid presence in the US. If the citizen spouse is employed for at least one year according to an employment contract or order, then the residency requirements are waived. As per the applicable law, the citizen spouse’s employment abroad must be for a period of at least one year. If this requirement is met, the naturalization application can be filed before the employment abroad begins. There is no minimum required residence in the US or a minimum period for which the applicant must have been a permanent resident. The applicant must, however, declare his or her intention to reside permanently in the US upon the termination of the spouse’s foreign employment.
If a person has broken the continuity of residence he or she may re-apply for naturalization four years and one day following the date of his or her return to the US to resume residence. If the statutory 3-year period is involved, then it is two years and one day following his or her return to the US. In addition, during war times, soldiers being deployed overseas are eligible for citizenship without meeting the normal residency requirements."
For those who like to read. Good material from USCIS site.
http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=1457515b6ebad7154d688e7301274230
http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=1457515b6ebad7154d688e7301274230
austriacus
Registered Users (C)
I've read a couple of threads with other experiences - some of them even specific to the UK. For some people, the domicile requirement was relaxed and was interpreted as the citizen taking steps towards re-establishing domicile (even if they don't already have it). For others, it was very strictly enforced. Apparently, it might depend on the specific consular officer.
Advice that was given in some threads was that the petitioning citizen spouse would move back to the US a couple months ahead of the intending immigrant spouse, and re-establish domicile by finding a job, finding a place to live, enroll kids in school, etc.