4year 1 day rule: proof of ties w/ US still needed??

U

ungas29

Registered Users (C)
Hi,

I really need some clarification about some requirements about the 4 year 1 day rule.. i will be eligible next month, but my problem is during the year i was abroad(june2005-june2006), i didnt have any proof that i still had ties w/ the US like mortgage,lease, bank statements, car loan..

do i still have to provide those proof or does it only apply to PR that was out of the US for 6-12 mos?

another issue i have is i worked abroad(from 06/2005-06/2006) and i didnt file any worldwide tax.. the IO might deny me since he might look at this as an abandonment of my residency... so im thinking of not disclosing it..

can someone help me pls...

thanks!
 
Yes, you can be required to show proof of ties to the US for the year before the 4 year period. If you don't have that, be prepared for denial. If denied you can reapply in March 2011 (90 days before the 5-year anniversary of your return in June 2006).

another issue i have is i worked abroad(from 06/2005-06/2006) and i didnt file any worldwide tax.. the IO might deny me since he might look at this as an abandonment of my residency... so im thinking of not disclosing it..
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So if they ask if you were working, you'll lie and say NO? And when they find out the truth, you'll get denied or denaturalized. File the tax return now.
 
i think not disclosing that I worked abroad would be my last resort... but i wonder how will they find out if i indeed worked abroad...

one other thing is that my income was too low that i was not even required to file.. my concern is that they might think that working abroad are grounds for abandonment of residency..

my primary reason of going abroad was finishing my college degree in w/c i did in 2005.. i was out of US for almost 2 years so it's going to be very difficult for me to show proof of ties...


thanks for the reply!
 
ungas29 said:
i think not disclosing that I worked abroad would be my last resort... but i wonder how will they find out if i indeed worked abroad...
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They have ways of finding out, if they want to find out. They can communicate with consulates abroad if they think you might have done something that you didn't report.

one other thing is that my income was too low that i was not even required to file..
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Then not filing for that year isn't really a problem.

my primary reason of going abroad was finishing my college degree in w/c i did in 2005.. i was out of US for almost 2 years so it's going to be very difficult for me to show proof of ties...
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It's up to you if you want to risk the time and money by applying this year. You might be successful, you might be denied, you won't know until you apply and see what happens. But if you want to be safe as far as continuous residence is concerned, wait until March next year (assuming you're not going on any more long trips between now and then).
 
Jackolantern said:
Yes, you can be required to show proof of ties to the US for the year before the 4 year period.
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Isn't the whole purpose of the 4 year + 1 day rule to credit the applicant 364 days spent outside the country for stays of more than 1 year ( which automatically break continuous residency)?
 
hi bob!

thats what i thought... im getting mixed answers, some say i need to show proof, others say that since i was out for almost two years that it was obvious that i may have lost some ties w/ the US and i may not be required to show some proof..

another issue is i worked abroad and the IO may think of that negatively..

can you offer any advice.. thanks
 
ungas29 said:
Hi,

I really need some clarification about some requirements about the 4 year 1 day rule.. i will be eligible next month, but my problem is during the year i was abroad(june2005-june2006), i didnt have any proof that i still had ties w/ the US like mortgage,lease, bank statements, car loan..

do i still have to provide those proof or does it only apply to PR that was out of the US for 6-12 mos?

another issue i have is i worked abroad(from 06/2005-06/2006) and i didnt file any worldwide tax.. the IO might deny me since he might look at this as an abandonment of my residency... so im thinking of not disclosing it..

can someone help me pls...

thanks!
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After the >1 year absence, how did you re-enter the U.S.? Did you obtain a re-entry permit? Or did you get an SB-1 "returning resident" visa?
 
i had a re entry permit..

from 6/04-06/06(close to 2 years allowed by re entry permit) I was abroad and used my re entry permit.

i was abroad mainly to finish my college.. the problem is i worked after my college degree w/c could be a red flag by the USCIS..

if i will use the 4year 1 day rule, i will be eligible this next month..

pls advice.. thanks
 
ungas29 said:
hi bob!

thats what i thought... im getting mixed answers, some say i need to show proof, others say that since i was out for almost two years that it was obvious that i may have lost some ties w/ the US and i may not be required to show some proof..

another issue is i worked abroad and the IO may think of that negatively..

can you offer any advice.. thanks
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I wouldn't see why they would deny you for lack of residency ties before the 4 year period since the whole purpose of the 4 year + 1 year rule is to credit the applicant for time spent outside the US that clearly breaks continuous residency in the first place.

When did you obtain your GC?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ungas29 said:
i had a re entry permit..

from 6/04-06/06(close to 2 years allowed by re entry permit) I was abroad and used my re entry permit.

i was abroad mainly to finish my college.. the problem is i worked after my college degree w/c could be a red flag by the USCIS..

if i will use the 4year 1 day rule, i will be eligible this next month..

pls advice.. thanks
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Bobsmyth is correct that an absence of more than one year (without N-470 approved in advance) automatically breaks continuous residency for naturalization purposes and, of course, you will not be expected to demonstrate such continuous residency during the trip in question. However there is a separate issue of having maintained your permanent resident status.

Even during a trip that lasted longer than one year you are still expected and required to maintain permanent resident status. I believe this is what Jackolantern was talking about in his posts.

The precise requirements for maintaining permanent resident status are somewhat murky (see e.g. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=3f443a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD and http://www.americanlaw.com/maintlpr.html)
If you are very unlucky, the fact that you accepted a job abroad and that you did not file a U.S. tax return, may cause a problem in this regard.

I would suggest that you consult an immigration lawyer before filing N-400.

My own, non-expert, opinion is that you'll probably be OK if you file under the 4 years+1 day rule. You did obtain a re-entry permit, which is viewed as having intent to return before the start of the trip. Plus the fact that you went abroad to finish a college degree gives the trip a definite temporary purpose. So, IMHO, it is not very likely that the IO will decide that during that trip you in fact abandoned your permanent resident status. Still, there is some risk, and that is why I would suggest talking to a lawyer before filing.
 
baikal3 said:
Even during a trip that lasted longer than one year you are still expected and required to maintain permanent resident status.
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Maintaining residential ties for GC and maintaining continuous residency are two separate things. The OP had a RET to maintain his GC.
The 4 year + 1 day rule allows the applicant to credit the last 364 days spent outside the US towards continuous residency, so I can't see why USCIS would require proof of residency ties in this case.
 
Bobsmyth said:
Isn't the whole purpose of the 4 year + 1 day rule to credit the applicant 364 days spent outside the country for stays of more than 1 year ( which automatically break continuous residency)?
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The crediting of the 364 days is the reason why you need to prove residential ties for those 364 days.

There are multiple cases on this forum where the individuals using the 4y+1 rule were asked to prove ties for the year outside the US right before the 4 year cutoff.
 
thanks for the reply guys..

im hoping that someone who had the same experience can share what they have gone through..
im just not so sure if i have to provide ties since im getting mixed answers... coz if have to, i think my chances are weak since i dont have any lease, mortgage etc..
 
Bobsmyth said:
Maintaining residential ties for GC and maintaining continuous residency are two separate things. The OP had a RET to maintain his GC.
The 4 year + 1 day rule allows the applicant to credit the last 364 days spent outside the US towards continuous residency, so I can't see why USCIS would require proof of residency ties in this case.
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I don't think that having a reentry permit, in and of itself, is sufficient for preserving the permanent resident status during a trip abroad. Having obtained a REP does establish intent to return at the start of the trip, but one is also required to maintain such intent throughout the trip. Accepting a job abroad may cause a problem in this regard. E.g. if someone takes on a permanent job abroad (even if a reentry permit was obtained in advance), I am fairly sure that this creates a problem with maintaining the permanent resident status. I am also unsure about the tax issue.
According to USCIS, http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=3f443a4107083210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD if somebody fails "to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period", this could result in being found to have abandoned the permanent resident status.
 
ungas29 said:
thanks for the reply guys..

im hoping that someone who had the same experience can share what they have gone through..
im just not so sure if i have to provide ties since im getting mixed answers... coz if have to, i think my chances are weak since i dont have any lease, mortgage etc..
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Here's a post of an applicant using 4 year 1 day rule who was asked for residency ties for the period outside the US:

http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?285841-USCIS-Detroit-N-14-received-Need-Info&p=1959202

Since the 4 year 1 day rule rule written in 8 cfr 316 specifically mentions its use for trips over 1 year that break continuous residency, it could be that the IO's interpretation and request for residency ties was incorrect.
 
i wonder how would USCIS find out that i have worked abroad... im just thinking of not mentioning this because this can open a huge can of worms!
 
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