low number of winners from spain

[sudipmuk]

Hi
I will apply for DV-2011 for the first time. Though I am living in India, and am an Indian , but my country of eligibility is Spain as I was born there. And I guess my wife (born in India) can also apply with country of eligibility as Spain.
I was going through the records and noticed that every year spain has around 150 - 175 number of winners. I was wondering why there is so low number of winners from Spain. Can I then assume that the number of winner is low , because the number of entries are low? Then, can anyone please give me an idea about the number of entries in DV from Spain.

Thanks in advance
Sudip

 

[bentlebee]

Hi
I will apply for DV-2011 for the first time. Though I am living in India, and am an Indian , but my country of eligibility is Spain as I was born there. And I guess my wife (born in India) can also apply with country of eligibility as Spain.
I was going through the records and noticed that every year spain has around 150 - 175 number of winners. I was wondering why there is so low number of winners from Spain. Can I then assume that the number of winner is low , because the number of entries are low? Then, can anyone please give me an idea about the number of entries in DV from Spain.

Thanks in advance
Sudip

The Netherlands had this year 200 NL winners and I have seen a number of Eu00011xxx which my friend has but read also about numbers as Eu0026xxx...so I guess they don't just by adding 200 on top of each other.

Why it is so low, I have no clue and Spain is way bigger than The Netherlands....if you look at Germany with over 2600 NL winners, it just doesn't make sense....there must be a reason for it though.

What I wonder is why I only are reading about pretty young NL winners. I haven't read about people being in their 50ties or sixties and winning the lotery, which makes me wonder if it is really randomly picked winners.
I know that many people entering are over 40 so why are there so many winners in their 20 ties? Does this have to do with a longer period of working in the US? If so, it isn't a real lotery....

 

[sudipmuk]

which makes me wonder if it is really randomly picked winners.

I was also wondering the same thing ,but for a different reason. I have read many people's experience in this forum, and i don't remember reading about anyone who has just the basic minimum required qualification to win DV. Almost all of the winners has more than required qualification and most of them with work experience. I will really like to read about some winner , who has no work experience and qualificationwise he/she will just have the minimum required qualification.
But anyway , that will be a long debate about it being a real lottery or not , what i originally wanted to know is that what are my chances of winning by applying from spain?
Thanks

 

[bmx88]

Hi
I will apply for DV-2011 for the first time. Though I am living in India, and am an Indian , but my country of eligibility is Spain as I was born there. And I guess my wife (born in India) can also apply with country of eligibility as Spain.
I was going through the records and noticed that every year spain has around 150 - 175 number of winners. I was wondering why there is so low number of winners from Spain. Can I then assume that the number of winner is low , because the number of entries are low? Then, can anyone please give me an idea about the number of entries in DV from Spain.

Thanks in advance
Sudip

Do you actualy have Spanish citizenship -if you do then everything is OK but I m not so shure if you wife could go through Spain for GC lottery- only if you have Spanish citizenship you can applay through Spain -getting born in one country but not beign citizen of the same cant get you on the eligibility of that same country-mind you-You have to pass consular interview in country of eligibility and obtain all the documents from that country such as passport,birth certificate ,medical exam, bank account statements , police certificate,high school diploma or diploma from Spanish University or Spanish work experiance etc -your wife could go only through Indian eligibility since she has no connection with Spain what so ever - she never lived there or worked or has education or citizenship of Spain - if you dont have Spanish citizenship but you aplay through Spain you can only get rejected later on when it comes to actualy going to US consulate to finish the process -you might even get rejected after the second letter but probably it will be after ''tet -a -tet ''with the consul that you will get refused-this subject was covered a lot here on this forum so do not make a mistake to mix up country of eligibility with the country where you got born but you do not have a citizenship of the same .

 

[no_trying]

You can play DV Lottery by birth, which is Spain, on electronic submission you have to state where you live now. In your case is India. When you fill the application eg DS-122 after WINNING DV, mention you want to have the interview in One of US Consulate in India that does US Immigrant Visa (not the embassy that does work, student visas, these are non-immigrant visas).

Don't worry you are good to go. You can use Indian Work Experience and Indian Education. Make sure you have Money, Affidavit support or job offer lined up in the US.

Note: I think this DV Lottery is skewed to people who can work in the US Most Time in their life so they will eventually paying into Social Security to help the Uncle Sam. There is no free Lunch.

 

[bmx88]

You can play DV Lottery by birth, which is Spain, on electronic submission you have to state where you live now. In your case is India. When you fill the application eg DS-122 after WINNING DV, mention you want to have the interview in One of US Consulate in India that does US Immigrant Visa (not the embassy that does work, student visas, these are non-immigrant visas).

Don't worry you are good to go. You can use Indian Work Experience and Indian Education. Make sure you have Money, Affidavit support or job offer lined up in the US.

Note: I think this DV Lottery is skewed to people who can work in the US Most Time in their life so they will eventually paying into Social Security to help the Uncle Sam. There is no free Lunch.

only if you actualy have Spanish citizenship (valid Spanish passport)- I can't stress this enough - I knew in the past a case where person from your country born in Italy claimed ITALY as country of "eligibility " but he had no ties to Italy at all except beign born there and then lived most of his life in India (Delhi) -he won GC in 92 and went to US consulate only to be sked to produce VALID ITALIAN¨PASSPORT (which he could not) and he got rejected afterwards-so keep that in mind -claiming Spain as "country of eligibility " means you are citizen of that country -period;Your nationality is INDIAN and you can play by that or by birth (if different then India but you have to be citizen of that country then -so in your case yes IF YOU ARE SPANISH CITIZEN but Spain so far I know do not offer automatic citizenship to people who are just born in Spain -people born on Spanish soil from foreign parents ( EU countries are exception) usualy get so called "international birth certificate " which is to be used before they can sort out new birth certificate in their country of origin );You have quota asigned to each individual country which is permited to take part in GC lottery and Spain has a certain number of "places" for their own citizens -not Indians or Chinese or .... but Spanish people by birth (granted citizenship on the day of birth) or Spanish nationals (could be foreign born but naturalized Spanish citizen wtih full Spanish passport )

 

[no_trying]

bmx88,

what you are saying doesn't make any sense. There are many people who are born in one country and naturalized in another country. Some countries don't allow dual citizenship. DV Lottery is based on birth country.

All you need is a proof. That means your birth certificate should validate where you were born. Not your passport.

Every US Consulate Office is different. Just try it man. Don't listen to bad news people. If you try DV Lottery Under Spain and won. You have to send DSP-122 Forms to KCC. If you send it to KCC and got rejected in the interview then you can't get any non-immigrant visa like work, student visas into US.

 

[bmx88]

your advice is plainly wrong -you are giving him wrong advice here - you need a passport to travel and to prove eligibility by birth (this means legaly citizenship by birth in certain country and not getting born in certain country by foreign parents and then living in another country )-I'm telling you -you are making a mistake here -you are mixing two categories of eligibility -what will happen if this man seeking advice here actualy listen to you and states his country eligibility to be Spain ?? they would stamp his birth certificate ??? I'm telling you its not gonna work-period ;I'm of different nationalities (French and German ) but I was born in Switzerland (Bern)and I could not enter GC lottery as Swiss since I don't have Swiss nationality -Swiss people seldom play GC lottery so of course my chance would be higher to win as Swiss then say German or French GC player but it can't be done so I won as German -birth certificate he might have is not the same birth certificate like the certificates given to Spanish citizens for shure

 

[no_trying]

sudipmuk,

Do you have a Spanish Birth Certificate? If yes, then get it translated to English and find out if it says you are born in Spain, what Spanish province and what Spanish city? Also, what does you Indian passport say on birth place? Does Indian passport say you are born in Spain? If you are born in Spain then Spanish birth certificate and Indian passport both should say you are born in Spain. Both documents have to be consistent. Can't have inconsistency here.

Your parent's nationality doesn't matter for DV. If US Consular Officer rejects you in the US Embassy in India for not having Spanish Passport, then you appeal to KCC and reassess your file. DV lottery is based on birth. Period.

Not what your parents nationality or what passport you hold at the moment or citizenship. Also DV allows you to apply under One of your Parent's Nationality as well. You need to have documents to back the claim

Don't listen to bmx88 quoting someone horror story that happend in way back in 92. This someone he is quoting may not know it was based on birth not what passport you hold. If he knew he would of appealed it. Lot of things have changed. If you want it bad enough, don't take no from anyone.

 

[bmx88]

- you have to be Spanish citizen to qualify for GC lottery through Spanish eligibility (Spanish quota of GC winners) -I won't post anymore on this subject -its just silly to argue with this guy on obvious thing -my advice is all the same -if you quote Spanish eligibility because you are born in Spain (but you do not have Spanish citizenship) you will get rejected and no KCC will help you for shure (KCC might reject you outright after you send your info back to them) PS I know British people born in different (eligible )countries but they can't participate in GC lottery since they are native of the UK (exluded for participating in GC lottery ) even if they hold birth certificates from Singapore or Cyprus or Malta or even better I know people who hold birth certificate from the UK (exluded) but yet they got the GC with no problems since they are not UK citizens and therefor exempt from not participating in GC lottery like other UK citizens by birth

 

[MarcNZ]

bmx88:

This is copied straight out of the DV instructions...

Your country of eligibility will normally be the same as your country of birth. Your country of eligibility is not related to where you live. “Native” ordinarily means someone born in a particular country, regardless of the individual’s current country of residence or nationality. For immigration purposes, “native” can also mean someone who is entitled to be “charged” to a country other than the one in which he/she was born under the provisions of Section 202(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

There is no mention of citizenship. The DV lottery does not take citizenship into account, only birth place (or birth place of spouse, or parents in some cases). Like no_trying said, if they have a Spanish birth certificate and an Indian passport that both list Spain as the place of birth, then they can claim eligibility through Spain.

The people you know in the UK who have birth certificates from other countries should be allowed to enter. Have they been rejected on that basis, or are they not even bothering to try because they don't think they are allowed? Also, the people you know who were born in the UK but are not UK citizens will be applying using the countries of eligibility of their parents, which they are allowed to do if their parents were not residents of the UK at the time of their births (e.g. they were working there temporarily, studying there, passing through on holiday etc...) And as for your example of the Italian/Indian back in 92, maybe the rules were different back then - I'm not sure, but under the current rules they should not have been rejected on that basis.

 

[kolja]

if you have a passport of INDIA then you can't participate in the GC lottery since INDIA is not permited to take part in it -
you have to be a citizen of the country which is permited to take part in the lottery - each country has number of GC aloted ot it and in order to get GC "by way" say SPAIN you have to be citizen of that country -
if you are born in one country but you did not obtain citizenship by birth of that country then you can't get GC through quota of GC cards aloted to that country -in your case you are NATIVE of INDIA and not SPAIN so your application for GC lottery will be rejected at any rate even if you are born in SPAIN (but NOT "NATIVE OF SPAIN" )-rules of the GC lottery are the same right from the first day so it does not matter if you aplied in 80s ,90s or yesterday -its always the same ;OTHERWISE CITIZENS OF ONE COUNTRY WHICH IS BARRED FOR PATICIPATING IN THE LOTTERY COULD BY PASS THAT RULE BY CITING DIFFERENT COUNTRY OF BIRTH ALL THE TIME -so say MILLIONS OF CHINESE could quote say countries of ITALY.SINGAPORE,VIETNAM ,AUSTRALIA ,FRANCE , SPAIN ,PORTUGAL etc as "countries of birth" and go to the USA as GC winners and fullfil 100% of the GC lottery places easly so US would end up taking just Chines people but from different countries "of birth" which exactly what GC program is trying to avoid

 

[MarcNZ]

if you have a passport of INDIA then you can't participate in the GC lottery since INDIA is not permited to take part in it -
you have to be a citizen of the country which is permited to take part in the lottery - each country has number of GC aloted ot it and in order to get GC "by way" say SPAIN you have to be citizen of that country -
if you are born in one country but you did not obtain citizenship by birth of that country then you can't get GC through quota of GC cards aloted to that country -in your case you are NATIVE of INDIA and not SPAIN so your application for GC lottery will be rejected at any rate even if you are born in SPAIN (but NOT "NATIVE OF SPAIN" )-rules of the GC lottery are the same right from the first day so it does not matter if you aplied in 80s ,90s or yesterday -its always the same ;OTHERWISE CITIZENS OF ONE COUNTRY WHICH IS BARRED FOR PATICIPATING IN THE LOTTERY COULD BY PASS THAT RULE BY CITING DIFFERENT COUNTRY OF BIRTH ALL THE TIME -so say MILLIONS OF CHINESE could quote say countries of ITALY.SINGAPORE,VIETNAM ,AUSTRALIA ,FRANCE , SPAIN ,PORTUGAL etc as "countries of birth" and go to the USA as GC winners and fullfil 100% of the GC lottery places easly so US would end up taking just Chines people but from different countries "of birth" which exactly what GC program is trying to avoid

The quote I provided in the previous post to your's was taken straight out of the 2010 DV instructions. If you want to check it out yourself here is the link to the instructions:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1318.html
The part I copied out about place of birth is under Frequently Asked Questions 1 on page 6.

If you have found information contradicting the official instructions, could you please post a link to it. The instructions clearly state that eligibility is primarily based on country of birth and NOT nationality (I say "primarily" because you can also claim chargability to a spouse's or parent's place of birth in certain circumstances - it's all in the instructions).

Regarding your example of whether millions of Chinese could apply using other countries as their place of birth. They absolutely can, provided those millions of Chinese were in fact born in those other countries. Those are the rules.

 

[kolja]

Exactly - ''by country of birth''- PROVIDING YOU ARE THE CITIZEN OF THAT COUNTRY WHERE YOU WHERE BORN -IF NOT -THEN SECOND CATEGORY permited to play GC lotttery IS CITIZENSHIP OF COUNTRY WHICH IS PERMITED TO TAKE PART IN THE LOTTERY REGARDLESS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU GOT BORN or 3 RD CATEGORY ELIGIBILITY BY dual citizenship aquired through parents -providing they are different Nationalities - AND ABOUT cHINESE ,Indians and other nations which are overpopulated THEY CAN't actualy applay like that by using different country of birth in attempt to circumvate ban on their native countries - at any rate this guy born in Spain but native of INDIA could never get GC through lottery as long as INDIA is barred from participating its just not gonna happen-you have US immigration and citizenship act which has clear definition of the person 'charged' to certain region or country -HE OR SHE CAN BE ''CHARGED'' TO CERTAIN COUNTRY ONLY IF HE OR SHE HAS IS BORN IN THAT COUNTRY AND HAS A PROOF OF ''NATIVITY'' I.E. CITIZENSHIP OF THAT SAME COUNTRY .......

 

[MarcNZ]

Exactly - ''by country of birth''- PROVIDING YOU ARE THE CITIZEN OF THAT COUNTRY WHERE YOU WHERE BORN -IF NOT -THEN SECOND CATEGORY permited to play GC lotttery IS CITIZENSHIP OF COUNTRY WHICH IS PERMITED TO TAKE PART IN THE LOTTERY REGARDLESS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU GOT BORN or 3 RD CATEGORY ELIGIBILITY BY dual citizenship aquired through parents -providing they are different Nationalities - AND ABOUT cHINESE ,Indians and other nations which are overpopulated THEY CAN't actualy applay like that by using different country of birth in attempt to circumvate ban on their native countries - at any rate this guy born in Spain but native of INDIA could never get GC through lottery as long as INDIA is barred from participating its just not gonna happen

Where does it say any of this? It is NOT in the instructions. Please post a link.

 

[sudipmuk]

I have my birth certificate (issued in madrid) , my indian passport , and both the documents clearly says , that i was born in Madrid , Spain. I donot have spanish nationality.
And i have read the DV instruction many times, and it is clearly stated that the country of eligibility is the country of birth. There is no mention of citizenship. But still what
BMX88 is saying is confusing me. I cannot apply through India , as India is excluded from the country of eligibility.
BMX88 also said that my wife can not use spain as her country of eligibility , but as far as i know , anyone can use his/her spouse's birth place as the country of eligibility.

And BMX88-I will like to ask you if the person, you mentioned, from India, born in Italy , had his birthcertificate from Italy?
The official DV instruction clarly says :
Your country of eligibility will normally be the same as your country of birth. Your country of eligibility is not related to where you live. “Native” ordinarily means someone born in a particular country, regardless of the individual’s current country of residence or nationality.

 

[ammeck09]

COUNTRY OF ELIGIBILITY OR CHARGEABILITY FOR THE DV PROGRAM
Your country of eligibility will normally be the same as your country of birth. Your country of eligibility is not related to where you live. If you were born in a country that is not eligible for the DV program, please review the instructions to see if there is another option for country chargeability available for you. For additional information on chargeability, please review “Frequently Asked Question #1” of these instructions. http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/T1026V-DV-2010bulletin(3).pdf

From the underlined sentense, you can claim eligibility if you are born in an eligible country even though you may not live in -or citizen of that country.

To enter the DV lottery, you must be a native of one of the listed countries.
Native of a country whose natives qualify: In most cases, this means the country in which you were born. However, there are two other ways you may be able to qualify. First, if you were born in a country whose natives are ineligible but your spouse was born in a country whose natives are eligible; you can claim your spouse’s country of birth, provided both you and your spouse are on the selected entry, are issued visas, and enter the U.S. simultaneously. Second, if you were born in a country whose natives are ineligible, but neither of your parents was born there or resided there at the time of your birth, you may claim nativity in one of your parents’ country of birth, if it is a country whose natives qualify for the DV-2010 program. http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/T1026V-DV-2010bulletin(3).pdf

The important point here is where you were born, no emphasis on residence or citizenship.

Who is a "Native"? Can I qualify if I am not a native?[/B]
The term "Native" ordinarily means born with a particular country, regardless of the person's current nationality or residence.
According to the Immigration and Naturalization act, an applicant born in an ineligible country if married to a person in an eligible country, can claim the spouse's country of birth rather than his/her own. For example, a person born in an excluded country such as India may still apply if his or her spouse was born in a qualifying country. http://greencardlottery.visapro.com/DV-Lottery-Eligibility-FAQ.asp#Q19

This sentence explain it all, "the term 'Native' ordinarily means born with a particular country, regardless of the person's current nationality or residence.

IMO, sudipmuk, the thread opener qualifies to use Spain as his country of eligibility, despite not having Spanish citizenship. He can use his Indian passport to apply for the visa. The important thing is having the documental prove in a form of birth certificate.

 

[no_trying]

Exactly - ''by country of birth''- PROVIDING YOU ARE THE CITIZEN OF THAT COUNTRY WHERE YOU WHERE BORN -IF NOT -THEN SECOND CATEGORY permited to play GC lotttery IS CITIZENSHIP OF COUNTRY WHICH IS PERMITED TO TAKE PART IN THE LOTTERY REGARDLESS OF THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU GOT BORN or 3 RD CATEGORY ELIGIBILITY BY dual citizenship aquired through parents -providing they are different Nationalities - AND ABOUT cHINESE ,Indians and other nations which are overpopulated THEY CAN't actualy applay like that by using different country of birth in attempt to circumvate ban on their native countries - at any rate this guy born in Spain but native of INDIA could never get GC through lottery as long as INDIA is barred from participating its just not gonna happen-you have US immigration and citizenship act which has clear definition of the person 'charged' to certain region or country -HE OR SHE CAN BE ''CHARGED'' TO CERTAIN COUNTRY ONLY IF HE OR SHE HAS IS BORN IN THAT COUNTRY AND HAS A PROOF OF ''NATIVITY'' I.E. CITIZENSHIP OF THAT SAME COUNTRY .......

Can you provide a link for this?


All comes down to KCC doing DV Lottery by birth and USCIS granting GC/US Citizenship based on citizenship at birth. Some countries only allow Jus Sanguinis(by blood, one of your parents have to be a citizen of that country, eg Spain, China and India gives citizenship by blood). Other countries give citizenship based on soil. Countries that allow by soil are USA, Canada and few others. But these countries have mixture of Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis.


Jus Sanguinis Countries:

Bulgaria
Belgian
China
Croatia
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
India
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Kiribati
Lebanon
Poland
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Serbia
Slovakia
South Korea
Spain
Turkey
Ukraine

Jus Soli Countires:

States that observe jus soli include:

* Antigua and Barbuda
* Argentina
* Barbados
* Belize
* Bolivia
* Brazil
* Canada
* Chile[2] (children of transient foreigners or of foreign diplomats on assignment in Chile only upon request)
* Colombia
* Dominica
* Dominican Republic
* Ecuador
* El Salvador
* Fiji[3]
* Grenada
* Guatemala
* Guyana
* Honduras
* Hong Kong
* Jamaica
* Lesotho[4]
* Mexico
* Nicaragua
* Pakistan
* Panama
* Paraguay
* Peru
* Romania
* Saint Christopher and Nevis
* Saint Lucia
* Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
* Trinidad and Tobago
* United States
* Uruguay
* Venezuela

Many nations have a mixture of jus sanguinis and jus soli, including the United States, Canada, Israel, Germany (as of recently), Greece, Ireland and others.

It all depends on who is processing you GC, KCC or USCIS (USCIS will takeover from KCC if you are doing AOS). It seems like USCIS has final say over KCC.

If you are Indian born in country that gives Citizenship based on Jus Sanguinis like Spain, then you are an Indian Citizen. But if you are born in a country that is qualified for DV and citizen of that country by Jus Soli and/or/both Jus Sanguinis, but lost the citizenship when you were naturalized to another third country, can you be granted DV by USCIS?

For you to get GC by USCIS based on DV Lottery by birth, do you need to be a dual citizen (regaining the citizenship of birth country), if you got naturalized in another country and lost the birth country's citizenship?

On what passport would USCIS issue the GC, naturalized country's passport or birth country's passport? Or does the person has the choice to choose which passport to give it to USCIS Officer?

 

[no_trying]

Even USCIS is using country of birth for foreign state of chargeablility. This is getting confusing.

USCIS Foreign State of Chargeability

Foreign State of Chargeability

The independent country to which an immigrant entering under the preference system is accredited. No more than 7 percent of the family-sponsored and employment-based visas may be issued to natives of any one independent country in a fiscal year. No one dependency of any independent country may receive more than 2 percent of the family-sponsored and employment-based visas issued. Since these limits are based on visa issuance rather than entries into the United States, and immigrant visas are valid for 6 months, there is not total correspondence between these two occurrences. Chargeability is usually determined by country of birth. Exceptions are made to prevent the separation of family members when the limitation for the country of birth has been met.

Take a look at this post by Grindo: http://forums.immigration.com/showpost.php?p=1973053&postcount=15

He was born is Germany but Indonesian Citizen by Blood, so he got DV via Germany.
http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=287878&highlight=chargeability

 

[no_trying]

Problem Solved:

Place of Birth that Counts, German Born UK Citizen Won DV GC