Political Refugee/Asylee v. Stateless

[bornTwice]

I have not visited this site for over a year. I have been fully wrapped up by workload, graduate school study and other personal matters. I will be done with school by this June. I am ecstatic. Sorry, to tell you my crap.

It is great to see veteran forum members like wantmygcnow, Lazer and others to whom I am grateful for their educative advices on immigration matters.

I am unsure if the issue on the subject matter has been discussed on this forum. I am unable to find a thread on that.

A friend of me (asylee) has been looking for a job in the United Nations. We noticed that the United Nations has a policy that a US permanent resident must first relinquish his or her permanent residency to be employed by the United Nations. There are some exceptions to that. Among others, the above rule does not apply to "stateless persons".

I have been trying to educate myself whether the above UN's exception to its policy on GC holders includes or excludes asylees and refugees. There are serveral resources out there, almost all of them some legal twit or spin that it requires experienced lawyer to understand them.

Below is the link to UN rules or circulars on the above (scroll down to Section 5).

http://jobs.undp.org/circulars/STAI20019.pdf.

Apparently, a non-asylee GC card holder can make a choice and give up his or her GC to get employed in UN. A non-asylee GC holder always can return his or her country of residence with his or her National Passport, and freely travel to US or other place with UN travel document. If an asylee relinquish his or her GC, get a UN job, he/she will remain at the mercy of his or her supervisor at UN, becasue if for any reason he or she is fired or layoff -- that individual automatically becomes a de facto "stateless". If you ask my opinion, I wouldn't give up my permanent resident, even if Mr. Kofi Anan (or the current UN Secretary) guarantees me a lifetime UN job.

My question is -- can an asylee with GC work with UN without losing his or her GC? meaning, does the definition of "stateless" extends to include "asylees"?

thanks!

 

[MGTgrl]

You brought up a good point. Yes, it would be nice to know what stateless mean. I hope people will answer those questions.

A friend of mine gave up her GC for G-4 visa when she started working at IMF. Apparently, you get a lot of perks with G-4 visa (like tuition payment for children, bringing a household employee from your country, etc...) and she said she was very happy in her decision. But the good thing for her is that she is married to a US citizen so if she lost her job, she had a backup plan through her husband. Now the trick is if she gets divorced or her husband dies, then she will be screwed. But she said she was willing to take the risk.

Anyway, I would like to hear what others say about asylees in this case and being stateless.

 

[thankful]

I have not visited this site for over a year. I have been fully wrapped up by workload, graduate school study and other personal matters. I will be done with school by this June. I am ecstatic. Sorry, to tell you my crap.

It is great to see veteran forum members like wantmygcnow, Lazer and others to whom I am grateful for their educative advices on immigration matters.

I am unsure if the issue on the subject matter has been discussed on this forum. I am unable to find a thread on that.

A friend of me (asylee) has been looking for a job in the United Nations. We noticed that the United Nations has a policy that a US permanent resident must first relinquish his or her permanent residency to be employed by the United Nations. There are some exceptions to that. Among others, the above rule does not apply to "stateless persons".

I have been trying to educate myself whether the above UN's exception to its policy on GC holders includes or excludes asylees and refugees. There are serveral resources out there, almost all of them some legal twit or spin that it requires experienced lawyer to understand them.

Below is the link to UN rules or circulars on the above (scroll down to Section 5).

http://jobs.undp.org/circulars/STAI20019.pdf.

Apparently, a non-asylee GC card holder can make a choice and give up his or her GC to get employed in UN. A non-asylee GC holder always can return his or her country of residence with his or her National Passport, and freely travel to US or other place with UN travel document. If an asylee relinquish his or her GC, get a UN job, he/she will remain at the mercy of his or her supervisor at UN, becasue if for any reason he or she is fired or layoff -- that individual automatically becomes a de facto "stateless". If you ask my opinion, I wouldn't give up my permanent resident, even if Mr. Kofi Anan (or the current UN Secretary) guarantees me a lifetime UN job.

My question is -- can an asylee with GC work with UN without losing his or her GC? meaning, does the definition of "stateless" extends to include "asylees"?

thanks!

I think you will have an arguable case that getting asylum would fit under the definition of statelessness. I am basing on my reasoning on arguably analogous cases decided by the International Olympic Committee. Remember when we lawyers (or law students) say arguable it does not imply that you will be successful. We just mean that you have have some non frivolous grounds to argue your case.

If you are serious about doing this, you will need competent legal representation to explore your legal options. Do not rely on whatever you hear on chat rooms (including me).

What kind of jobs are we talking about? Does it worth that much trouble?

 

[bornTwice]

I think you will have an arguable case that getting asylum would fit under the definition of statelessness. I am basing on my reasoning on arguably analogous cases decided by the International Olympic Committee. Remember when we lawyers (or law students) say arguable it does not imply that you will be successful. We just mean that you have have some non frivolous grounds to argue your case.

If you are serious about doing this, you will need competent legal representation to explore your legal options. Do not rely on whatever you hear on chat rooms (including me).

What kind of jobs are we talking about? Does it worth that much trouble?

Thankful, thank you for your thoughts. I agree with your point. I am not a lawyer, but when I read through the various articles by UN (on statelessness), it seems that there is "arguable" points. As you indicated, I understand that you guys (those in law profession) can make unarguable case winnable, and arguable case dismissable or void.

On your question on the type of UN jobs -- I talked with my friend, and I also checked the types of opportunities in UN. The UN pays very competitive compensation including superb benefit packages, for experienced professional (including lawayers). The challenge is to stand out among international contenders.

I will wait and see what other forum members would say on this.

 

[TortFeasor]

To the contrary

bornTwice:

I would take the contrary position that an asylee is akin to a permanent resident in light of the benefits bestowed on an asylee. Short of waiting the one year to apply for a GC, asylees enjoy similar benefits such as access to student financial aid, consumer and mortgage credits and receive a non-legended social security card. I think the INS and SSA have also agreed that save the approval of the GC application, an asylee has almost the status of the GC holder.

I would not even waste $ on talking to a lawyer (as most would not have a definitive answer anyway - if there were definitive answers, lawyers will be out of business soon!). Call the UN HR department directly and ask them what their policy is on the issue. I bet you that they have dealt with this before and they can give you a quick and definitive answer.

That said, I agree with you that a UN job is not worth abandoning ones GC. If you or your friend have a competitive education and experience, the jobs in the US private sector will grant you more compensation, benefits, career advancement, security and mobility. In the best of circumstances, I would only make 1/3rd of what I make now in any UN lateral position. Go figure!

Cheerio

n your question on the type of UN jobs -- I talked with my friend, and I also checked the types of opportunities in UN. The UN pays very competitive compensation including superb benefit packages, for experienced professional (including lawayers). The challenge is to stand out among international contenders.

I will wait and see what other forum members would say on this.

 

[rustik]

I have not visited this site for over a year. I have been fully wrapped up by workload, graduate school study and other personal matters. I will be done with school by this June. I am ecstatic. Sorry, to tell you my crap.

It is great to see veteran forum members like wantmygcnow, Lazer and others to whom I am grateful for their educative advices on immigration matters.

I am unsure if the issue on the subject matter has been discussed on this forum. I am unable to find a thread on that.

A friend of me (asylee) has been looking for a job in the United Nations. We noticed that the United Nations has a policy that a US permanent resident must first relinquish his or her permanent residency to be employed by the United Nations. There are some exceptions to that. Among others, the above rule does not apply to "stateless persons".

I have been trying to educate myself whether the above UN's exception to its policy on GC holders includes or excludes asylees and refugees. There are serveral resources out there, almost all of them some legal twit or spin that it requires experienced lawyer to understand them.

Below is the link to UN rules or circulars on the above (scroll down to Section 5).

http://jobs.undp.org/circulars/STAI20019.pdf.

Apparently, a non-asylee GC card holder can make a choice and give up his or her GC to get employed in UN. A non-asylee GC holder always can return his or her country of residence with his or her National Passport, and freely travel to US or other place with UN travel document. If an asylee relinquish his or her GC, get a UN job, he/she will remain at the mercy of his or her supervisor at UN, becasue if for any reason he or she is fired or layoff -- that individual automatically becomes a de facto "stateless". If you ask my opinion, I wouldn't give up my permanent resident, even if Mr. Kofi Anan (or the current UN Secretary) guarantees me a lifetime UN job.

My question is -- can an asylee with GC work with UN without losing his or her GC? meaning, does the definition of "stateless" extends to include "asylees"?

thanks!

Kofi Annan is NOT UN Secretary since January 2007...