Will someone with TN pre-approval for sure get TN at the border?

H

hmel

Member
My future employer is applying for TN pre-approval for me. Will I get a yes for sure if I present all required documents along with the pre-approval notice at the POE (Toronto Pearson Airport)?

The reason I am asking is that obviously I don't want to waste a few hundreds bucks on the flight ticket, a few hundreds on the relocation shipping, and the airbnb for the first couple days in US, if the CBP officier ever pick on me and send me back. I asked the laywer and he said with pre-approval the risk is low, but he didn't want to comment further. So I am thinking, maybe I can drive to niagara and walk cross the rainbow bridge and get TN there first, then return home and fly to US in a few days after. This way I will have absolute cerntainty.

Any suggestions? comments?
 
Never heard this term pre-approval for TN status. Does it mean, your employer is filing I-129 ?
 
No lawyer is going to give you absolute certainty when dealing with US immigration system. :)
But, yes, you should be fine.
By applying by mail, form I-129, USCIS will send the approval (form I-797b notice of action) to your lawyer. You take that original I-797b to YYZ POE with original documents (TN support letter, degree, transcripts, etc) and CBP will issue you TN status.
The only way the CBP officer would reject your TN is if they suspect fraud or you are inadmissible for other reasons (criminal record). They will take your fingerprints at POE.
But relax, you should be fine.
 
Amberleaf said:
No lawyer is going to give you absolute certainty when dealing with US immigration system. :)
But, yes, you should be fine.
By applying by mail, form I-129, USCIS will send the approval (form I-797b notice of action) to your lawyer. You take that original I-797b to YYZ POE with original documents (TN support letter, degree, transcripts, etc) and CBP will issue you TN status.
The only way the CBP officer would reject your TN is if they suspect fraud or you are inadmissible for other reasons (criminal record). They will take your fingerprints at POE.
But relax, you should be fine.
Click to expand...

Right.

I tend to think so too, but i searched around and found there are lots of people got denied in YYZ, some said the officier wanted original degree, but the copy one, some said the officier wanted ORIGINAL education equivalent, one said the officier searched his linkedin profile and found his past job titles don't match the one on tn, etc. etc, doesn't seem there is a common standard at all.
 
The CBP always have asked for ORIGINAL documents for TN status for the last 20+ years. Nothing new.
The reason they ask for ORIGINALs is to reduce the risk of FRAUD. Photocopies can be altered.
If your LinkedIn provide does not match TN support letter that could be considered FRAUD as well.
As I said, as long as you are not committing FRAUD, you should be fine.
If the CBP officer is giving you a hard time, politely ask to speak to a supervisor.
After you go through YYZ POE, please post your experience.
 
Amberleaf said:
The CBP always have asked for ORIGINAL documents for TN status for the last 20+ years. Nothing new.
The reason they ask for ORIGINALs is to reduce the risk of FRAUD. Photocopies can be altered.
If your LinkedIn provide does not match TN support letter that could be considered FRAUD as well.
As I said, as long as you are not committing FRAUD, you should be fine.
If the CBP officer is giving you a hard time, politely ask to speak to a supervisor.
After you go through YYZ POE, please post your experience.
Click to expand...

The linkedin case was something like, the person's linkedin past job titles are software developer, or something like developer, but his TN is of "engineer". This was shocking to me.
 
It is confusing what you are talking about here. Is your employer applying for a TN status through mail (I-129) or are you applying at the POE (Pearson)?

If applying with I-129 by mail, you will get a I-797 approval with your i-94 if approved. You simply need to show the officer at the airport this so they can process your TN status as you enter. you should not be interviewed (that was the point of the I-129).
 
dannyblaze said:
It is confusing what you are talking about here. Is your employer applying for a TN status through mail (I-129) or are you applying at the POE (Pearson)?

If applying with I-129 by mail, you will get a I-797 approval with your i-94 if approved. You simply need to show the officer at the airport this so they can process your TN status as you enter. you should not be interviewed (that was the point of the I-129).
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing yourself. Pre-approval notice is not equal to approval.
What you said is about extending TN, I was talking about applying for a new TN, i dont even have I-94.
 
Amberleaf said:
No lawyer is going to give you absolute certainty when dealing with US immigration system. :)
But, yes, you should be fine.
By applying by mail, form I-129, USCIS will send the approval (form I-797b notice of action) to your lawyer. You take that original I-797b to YYZ POE with original documents (TN support letter, degree, transcripts, etc) and CBP will issue you TN status.
The only way the CBP officer would reject your TN is if they suspect fraud or you are inadmissible for other reasons (criminal record). They will take your fingerprints at POE.
But relax, you should be fine.
Click to expand...
look at this one i saw
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/532xdc
His employer google has applied pre-approval for him, but still got denied in YYZ
 
Wow. That is incredible. I understand that the CBP officer can deny an entry into the US even if you have TN approval for USCIS, but I understand it is very rare. I believe your example above is one such very rare case.
In 2017 USCIS updated rules to restrict computer programmers for H1B
https://www.fragomen.com/insights/a...stricts-h-1b-eligibility-computer-programmers
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default...142-H-1BComputerRelatedPositionsRecission.pdf
It looks like they are applying it to TN status as well.

If your role involves computer programming I would be worried, but if your role does meet one the eligible TN categories you should be fine.

It goes to show they may call your future employer and even your future boss to clarify any uncertainty in the job description.

I also noted the Reddit posting was from two years ago when USCIS updated rules and Trump issued the "Buy American, Hire American" Executive Order. I think things have calmed down now.

Please post your experience on this forum when you go through the POE.
 
I am software eng, and I am assuming my TN title will be Engineer. And that example is also Engineer. Got me so worried about it. Hence I wanted to go to Niagara first a couple weeks before buying tickets, having belongings shipped to US, renting apt there. Thats a few thousand bucks! And I won't resign before I get the TN status for sure.

My start day is in Oct. I will have so many sleepless nights before that :('''''
 
TN pre-approval (ie I-129 from outside US) will be reviewed at border, but the only real danger is inadmissibility (criminal record, immig intent, etc), whichic is not decided in the I-129 process.
 
nelsona said:
TN pre-approval (ie I-129 from outside US) will be reviewed at border, but the only real danger is inadmissibility (criminal record, immig intent, etc), whichic is not decided in the I-129 process.
Click to expand...

ic. but the reddit post i sent didnt mention anything related to imm intent, note he got an offer from Google, which checked his criminal record. So the only reason left for his denial is imm intent.
 
The Reddit post was pretty clear, he was not denied due to immigration intent or background check, he was denied because the CBP officer believed his role was computer programming and not engineering work, and thus he did not meet the criteria for the TN status. (the CPB even called his future manager to clarify his future role).
This is extremely rare. This forum has been around for over 10 years and I don't recall seeing anything similar post. Yes, Management Consultant, CSA, Economist, and a few other TN categories are more difficult to obtain, but if I-129 is approved by USCIS by mail, you can enter US the first time by just "activating" your TN status. (background check - fingerprinting, and answering a few questions). This Reddit post is also 2 years old. No new posts on this forum in the past two years are like this Reddit one (that I recall at least).
I think this was related to the 2017 "Buy American, Hire American" Executive Order at that time. USCIS rates for RFE and Denial soared for H1B for marginal cases. TN status was affected a little by increased TN rejections by I-129 by mail (see earlier posts). No data for POE applications.
This particular CBP officer may have been a little too aggressive, but the applicant was rejected with I-129 approval, waiting 5 hours the second time, so I am sure it was escalated up the chain of command. Was it a valid rejection? Maybe, who knows. Did he/she try a third time and was admitted? Who knows, no follow up posts.
This case is also unique, in that the first attempt for TN status was just with TN support letter, diploma, transcripts, etc.
The second attempt on entry to US was with approved TN by USCIS (form-797b). (By admitting him the second time, they are kind of admitting the first rejection was not for valid reasons, so they did not want to do that)

You have three different people respond to your post, saying if you have I-129 approval (form I-797b) you should be fine. No worries.

If you are still concerned, talk to your employer, your employer legal team/lawfirm, express your concerns about your role.
How do they define Software Engineer's role, how much time is spent "computer programming", if any, etc.
If you are still concerned, decline this job and find a different or better job.
But, in general, if you have I-129 approval (received form I-797b), they only look at criminal record and ask a few questions related to immigration intent. You should be fine.
 
Amberleaf said:
The Reddit post was pretty clear, he was not denied due to immigration intent or background check, he was denied because the CBP officer believed his role was computer programming and not engineering work, and thus he did not meet the criteria for the TN status. (the CPB even called his future manager to clarify his future role).
This is extremely rare. This forum has been around for over 10 years and I don't recall seeing anything similar post. Yes, Management Consultant, CSA, Economist, and a few other TN categories are more difficult to obtain, but if I-129 is approved by USCIS by mail, you can enter US the first time by just "activating" your TN status. (background check - fingerprinting, and answering a few questions). This Reddit post is also 2 years old. No new posts on this forum in the past two years are like this Reddit one (that I recall at least).
I think this was related to the 2017 "Buy American, Hire American" Executive Order at that time. USCIS rates for RFE and Denial soared for H1B for marginal cases. TN status was affected a little by increased TN rejections by I-129 by mail (see earlier posts). No data for POE applications.
This particular CBP officer may have been a little too aggressive, but the applicant was rejected with I-129 approval, waiting 5 hours the second time, so I am sure it was escalated up the chain of command. Was it a valid rejection? Maybe, who knows. Did he/she try a third time and was admitted? Who knows, no follow up posts.
This case is also unique, in that the first attempt for TN status was just with TN support letter, diploma, transcripts, etc.
The second attempt on entry to US was with approved TN by USCIS (form-797b). (By admitting him the second time, they are kind of admitting the first rejection was not for valid reasons, so they did not want to do that)

You have three different people respond to your post, saying if you have I-129 approval (form I-797b) you should be fine. No worries.

If you are still concerned, talk to your employer, your employer legal team/lawfirm, express your concerns about your role.
How do they define Software Engineer's role, how much time is spent "computer programming", if any, etc.
If you are still concerned, decline this job and find a different or better job.
But, in general, if you have I-129 approval (received form I-797b), they only look at criminal record and ask a few questions related to immigration intent. You should be fine.
Click to expand...

"If you are still concerned, decline this job and find a different or better job."
lol. i dont think u can go that far.
Thanks for the insights anyways :)
 
As the incident indicated, CBP makes up their own mind, even with a an approved I-129. They don't like USCIS horning in on what is typically their domain. In this case the issue was "programmer vs. CSA". In any case this didn't seem like an engineering job, which was the ultimate problem. USCIS should have caught this,
 
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