Will it be a problem if I came from the US the day before and went back to apply for TN?

T

tnapp334

New Member
I plan to go up across the border with a friend and head back down to the POE next day to get my new TN. I had a previous TN, was laid off, used my grace period of 2 months, and then applied for a B-2 change of status with the i539 form. The B2 change has been approved and I just got my i797 approval notice in the mail that I've been switched to B2. I've been in the US this entire time since layoff to grace period to pending B2 to approved B2. This is all legally maintaining immigration status as far as I can tell.

My concern is that when I go to the border and present my TN application documents to the CBP officer, he's gonna ask something like "where are you coming from?" Or "where do you live in Canada?" I haven't been living in Canada any time recently, and in any case the POE I'm applying is out west and I am originally from eastern Canada. We'll be coming back down from Vancouver so the officer might ask "where you coming from? Vancouver? Do you live in Vancouver?" I'll have to say no to that, then he might ask where I DO live, and I'll be forced to say Washington state, then he'll get confused, and might ask if I've travelled over the border recently. I'll be forced to answer truthfully and say I travelled from the US the previous day. Then he might get suspicious and ask ok what were you doing in the US all this time if your old TN expired? Why did you NEED to stay in the US under the grace period? I will have my B-2 approval notice in hand though, but is it still suspicious that I stayed in the US for nearly the entire TN grace period before filing i539? Will I need to explain this all to the guard if he asks? If I do explain it, will it seem too suspicious and I'll be denied the new TN?

Thanks.
 
As I explained, the B2 was only to keep you in status, not extend your vacation, You are not expected to have lived in Canada while on TN, and you are certainly not expected to now, when applying for a new TN.

I wouldn't bother with the subterfuge of staying a day/night/5 minutes in canad. I would just drive across, U turn and get my TN.

The reason you needed to stay in US is that your grace period, and your maile-in B2 application were conditional on remaining in US. Once you left US (like you will do this time, the grace period would have ended, and any outstanding I-539's would have been considered abandoned: you would need to enter US on your merits (as either a B2 toursist, with a bona fide home in Canada) or with a new TN.

You have acted EXACTLY like you should during this period. The grace period is exactly that. The B2 wrap-up status is exactly that.

So, once again, focus on your TN application, and simply get that done.

And do not lie about where you have lived and where you do live -- which is WA.
 
Ok, the attorney helping me said I need to make it clear to the officer that I fully intend to return to Canada at the end of the employment period. She suggested to bring evidence of foreign residence to show this. She made the following statement:

You should make clear your intention to return to Canada when your
TN status expires and that your work with Appen Butler Hill Inc. ("Appen") is only of a
temporary nature. It is a good idea to bring documentation to support your temporary intentions,
i.e. proof of Canadian residence, ownership of property, bank accounts, and family ties.

How exactly do I do this? In my previous thread I said all I had was a couple pieces of mail addressed to me at the Canadian address, and printed photo ID of a drivers license with that address on it (it expired in 2016 though). That was good enough for USCIS to grant my B2 approval, so should it be sufficient now? Or is showing this foreign residence not really relevant? I'm a bit worried now that the aiding attorney has made this statement to me.
 
Your "temporary stay" in the US is aided by the fact that your letter from your employer will clearly state they intend to hire you temporarily for a period of X-months/years (with max being 3 yrs).

You had to show Canadian ties since you were applying for B2. With TN, you shouldnt have to worry about proving residential ties (what if you were a new grad with no property etc.?). Of course if you have any docs, take them with you just in case but provide only if asked.
 
Mister, there is an important difference when applying for a first TN as a non-resident, and subsequent TNs.

The lawyer is flat wrong that one need to show proof of Cdn residence (lawyers rarely get involved with TN so are rarely clear on the requirements). And to produce such documents would essentially be lying. The border may ask what their status in US was (because they live there) and they will simply produce the B2, and show their previous TN already in their passport. But, since they are outside US, CBP are interested primarily in the here-and-now, which is do they and the job qualify for TN. CBP will not ask about their future intentions to return to Canada; they might, due to the shortness of the work-term (why a lawyer would have been needed to get a 3-month TN is beyond me) remind the applicant that they have to leave when the TN expires.

From the CBP NAFTA Handbook:

In order to establish that the alien's
entry will be temporary, the alien must demonstrate to the satisfaction of the inspecting immigration officer that his or her work assignment in the United States will end at a predictable time and that he or she will depart upon completion of the assignment.

​
AS Mister said, your letter fulfills the first part. Your attestation that you understand the need to leave will satisfy the other.

Think of it: If all goes well, 3 months , and in 3, 6, and 9 years from now, you will be renewing this TN at the border. What proof will you have for foreign residence? None. Because you don't need it. 1000's of Cdns go to the border each year to renew their TN and are NEVER asked for foreign residency proof -- because it simply is NOT a requirement.

And as to proof of foreign residence when getting a wrap-up B2, this is also unnecessary, since the whole point of the wrap-up B2 is because you have no outside residence. On the other thread, we already discussed that the RFE was erroneous, either because tnapp didn't specify the reason for the I-539, or (more likely) the processor had a brain fart. We shouldn't read too much into this, as our poster apparently has. TNers have been asking for wrap-up B2 and have never had an RFE on residence, to my knowledge.
 
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Ok, thanks for clarifying. One more thing: they say there's a "good chance" the employment will be extended and then I'd have to apply for another, longer TN at the border if/when that happens. But in the case it does not get extended, will I still have the "grace period" of 60 days after the TN status expires? i.e. if it ends in October will I be able to maintain legal status for 60 days after that until December?
 
The new rules don't stipulate that the previous employment had to last a specific time for the grace period to kick-in. However the grace period cannot go past the end of the expiry of the I-94.

So, if you get a 90-day I-94 (say expiring Oct 15, 2017), your grace period can't extend past that date.

The grace period is for those who LOSE their job prematurely, not for those whose status simply runs out.

You may want to ask the new employer to give you a longer potential employment (based on the argument that this would avoid him having to duplicate effort). He is not bound to keep you for any length of time based on the letter.
 
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I've asked them to do that, they won't budge on the 3-month thing. But they still say there's a "good chance" of extension for it. I've informed them that I'd have to apply all over again (or they'd have to file an I-129 on my behalf if they get ahead of it in time), they still say they can only offer the 3 months for the time being. I guess I'll have to take it and then hope to get extended.
 
And just to confuse issues a little (remember this is a new policy), the rules state that you can get only one grace period per original period of eligibility). So, if your first TN was set to expire in Jan 2018, they could interpret that you have had your one grace period allowed before Jn 2018, and are not eligible for another until then.

So, I would not count on a grace period this time. I would apply for B2 to WRAP-UP US affairs (make this clear) on the day you stop working (as we had to do in the past).
 
I just was granted re-entry into the US. When we told the guard at the booth I needed to apply for a new visa he got confused, said they didn't do that here at the port of entry, and suggested to go to the Canadian consulate. He then let us into the US without me having to do anything to apply for the new visa. I still have the TN from the previous employer stapled in my passport and he looked at that, then just granted entry. So now I have no idea what to do, I didn't get a new TN and have no idea what my authorization is now. Can I work for the new employer or not? We're heading back to Seattle now because I don't know what to do.
 
Absolutely not. As the officer said, Cdbs do not get Visas. They request entry status at the border. Did you not present him with your new TN letter, degree, etc. That would have cleared up the confusion.
Your no longer in any valid status. You need to head back up and get this rectified. Your B2 is no longer valid, and your erroneous TN status doesn't give you the right to work because it was not based on the new sponsor.

And didn't I advise you to get your TN right away on crossing, instead of staying in Canada. Had you done this, you could have gone into Canada, phoned your lawyer or employer and asked her what to do. She would have told you what I just said.

Looks like you have problems (a) explaining yourself to officials, and (b) listening to well-meaning advice.
 
Well, what happened was, we showed our passports to the guard in the booth. I had my TN application package in my lap. My friend (driving, so directly talking to guard) then told the guard that I needed to apply for a new visa, and where do we go for that. The guard just said "A new visa?" looking confused. Then friend replied yes, that I already have one but I need a new one. Guard said "uh we don't do that here...I guess the Canadian consulate?" then he asked us a couple other standard questions and let us go.

I assumed the booth guard would direct us to secondary inspection and at secondary I would present the TN application package. But he never sent us to secondary, he just let us go. You're saying I should have presented the booth guard the TN package with the letter along with my passports? I had no idea you had to do that, how was I supposed to know? Every other time I've done this the booth guard waved us to secondary and I presented any additional papers in secondary. I thought I would be presenting the papers in secondary, this is why I did not show the whole package to the booth guard. But apparently I should have done this? So going back up, turning back around, and this time showing the whole TN package to the booth guard, will work and get me sent to secondary?
 
next time, its better if you drive yourself across the border. When you enter, tell the guard this: "I am here to request TN status for my job". Please do **not** use the word visa. You are a Canadian and Canadians are visa exempt. From how you explained things, its clear officer got confused by the use of the term 'visa' and rightfully mentioned 'consulate' to get it.

As nelsona said, you're not yet authorized for to work for the second employer. Therefore, simply head back and politely tell the border agent what I mentioned above i.e. request TN status.
 
Ok but we were already halfway back to Seattle by the time I realized what my mistake even was. Is it saying the word "status" instead of
"Visa", showing the booth guard the papers (I really though this was done in secondary)? And my friend was my only ride up there and back, I have no car myself. And she was greatly upset by the whole situation and feels like she messed it all up so I can't ask her to do it again tomorrow. She has things to do and doesn't have another 5-6 hours to just spend driving. So I have no clue how I'm going to get back up to the border now to do this. Any suggestions?
 
you can always take a flight to vancouver and then on the way back, request for TN there. OR rent a car yourself for a day and take the trip to the border and get this taken care of

Bottom line...without the second TN, you will not be authorized to work ... period. So if I were you, I'd get this sorted asap (read 'yesterday')
 
My TN support letter says "Peace Arch Point of Entry" won't that be a problem if I try to apply at any other point?
 
guess no other way but for you to arrange for a ride to the border again OR get the TN letter updated (not sure if the letter has to be POE specific) and take a flight...
 
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