Why do we tolerate ppl like Techy2468?

gctome........they must be truly liberated souls.......because being a IT developer.......the difference between GC and non GC is so much.....that i almost have to think of changing location everytime i am looking for a job, just to get an assignment (80% of companies in my area dont sponsor a H1 Visa)....

also the pay difference is almost 30% (because of the layers between me and my end client)
 
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ok_LA ....we have not lost our mojos....but ya circumstances have made us lose it (or not use it).....

just think of it, what if:

1. india was atleast 50% of usa (law and order, infrastructer etc..)
2. we can get similar jobs for decent salaries (in IT people are almost getting it).........

dont you think atleast 50% of the current GC applicants from india would have moved back instead of being bonded to the process....

imagine being a EB3 with PD of 2003 and plus.......is there any hope??......but we are still waiting....because we dont have similar alternatives....
 
techy2468 said:
gc_aug_05 .......i call it as fate........random motions of things......since you cannot chose where you are born or in what family........you can be born as a prince in saudi arabia and not having to do anything in life.....and you may get bored and become a lunatic fighter for the cause of religion.........

we all are capable of better things..........or atleast we are capable of leading a good life.......if not for this country of birth issue.....which has screwed 4-6 years of our life.....

and no denying the fact that i was born in india.....and i do have the soft spot for india......but that does not mean i am going to close my eyes and accept broken things as good..............sorry guys....i think the day everyone agrees that things are broken.....that day some one may start working to fix it..........or that day people will get restless with those who are supposed to fix it........

so for a better tomorrow....one has to accept that today things are not right.....

first i agree with statement that for a better tomorrow....one has to accept that today SOME things are not right. Normally I dont make personal statements, but here I cant keep quite.

when I saw the article that India became 11th richest country, that made me proud. the total wealth of India as whole is better than 180 other countries in the world. However, what did you see.. that we are 12 times behind US. While we are 12 times behind US, we are way ahead of many countries and whether you want it or not, we are growing at much faster pace than almost any other country, at the present. In fact, the past 5-7 years may have been the best years since our independence. Beleive it or not, India is be becoming a popular place, currently one of me team member's wife (a local US citizen) has gone to India for a educational tour.

All I expect is people should give a balance approach and take a reliastic view rather than just bein a pessimist and saying blah..blah against anything that is associated with your motherland.
 
gc_aug_05.....i think you are taking things out of context.....

you posted that india is #12 ......in a thread where comparison between india and usa was going on...............hence my comments that #12 is not enough.......

i am proud of the postive developments....but i think we still have too many gaps all over and also i have my doubts about the continued growth......

if not for the positive development in the past 7-8 years.....i would have preferred to have gone illegal and work in a gas station(i know many people who have done this in the past) (7-8 years back.....decent salary was only rs. 15k, and the number of jobs were 10 times less than the current number, atleast in IT)


and if you were to take a closer look you will realise that the news that india was 12th richest was just reflecting the GDP

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1717334.cms

to realise the root cause of all issues, take a look at this page which shows the ranking as "GDP per capita", where india is at 160 position and china is at 117th position.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html


some more facts about poverty in india:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India#Poverty

------we are doing good..........but we still have a long way to go........and all those politicians are not going to take us there, and nobody can do anything about politicians(even usa is not doing much about dirty politics)--------
 
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techy2468 said:
gc_aug_05.....i think you are taking things out of context.....

and if you were to take a closer look you will realise that the news that india was 12th richest was just reflecting the GDP
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1717334.cms
-

Please also understand the next line "The GDP figures have been adjusted to reflect purchasing power."I am glad you traced and found out my souce of info. Did you go through the discovery clip posted in this thread by querry11..Now that is a balanced view.
Did the markets drop this week despite all that carnage?

techy2468 said:
gc_aug_05.....i
to realise the root cause of all issues, take a look at this page which shows the ranking as "GDP per capita", where india is at 160 position and china is at 117th position.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html


------
It doesn't prove anything. In US the wealth of the top 10% exceeds the combined wealth of the other 90%...and how many actually get $41000....

.It's purchasing power that makes a difference...

"Remember a pessimist may be proved right in the long run..but the optimist has fun on the way"

I was trying to analyse why you are so frustrated..and it beat's me coz you are NOT telling the truth...I am sure ...you never paid any Tax in India..nor got more than 10K..nor was your savings more than 5 times.( coz you are now getting $32k and your wife ain't working). ..
What exactly is this reason for India Bashing? And why do you have such contradictory views in different threads? Why can't you have a balanced view? And why do you have to bring out your personal frustrations about your collage in the open? I surmise that your lack of maturity and education is attributable to NOT getting a good college.Who is to be blamed? If you paid for your education..(as you said)..and it wasn't subsidised..(like you claim..and all of us dispute)..then what prevented you from going to a good college..surely it couldn't be lack of money. In that case was it lack of merit?
 
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now lets not try to figure out each other........but for your info.....my combined household income is >90k..........my wife is a PhD........working as a researcher in health science....

i do agree that i missed merit seats because of bad high schooling...

now coming back to the discussion.....india vs USA:

you will have to agree though that at min wage= $6/hr (most people get this....even though it is slightly higher than federal rule)

USA ----->$6/hr= $12k/yr......is the min salary....

India----->Rs.750/month= Rs. 11000/yr = $196/yr

can you see the difference now......i do agree that cost of living is less in india (though in bigger cities of india.....there is not much diff now).

but can you see the difference in purchasing power.....

do you know that electronics, automobile and other manufactured goods cost almost the same all over the world (with few exceptions of course).....

BTW why are we even doing this debate on this forum.............where 100s of thousands of people from india are waiting to get their GC even though they get bonded to the same employer with no job satisfaction for 4-5 years(even though getting a Driving license, EAD, VIsa renewal etc is becoming painful every day) .........dont you think this is a proper sign......that USA is 10 times better than india........

dont you think....that this 100k people would have packed their bags and said goodbye to this indifferent country..........dont you think that they are willing to live a tough 4-5 years for a better future......

the writing is there on the wall....but i guess....some of us...just dont want to read it.....even though most of us live by it everyday....
 
techy2468 said:
now lets not try to figure out each other........but for your info.....my combined household income is >90k..........my wife is a PhD........working as a researcher in health science........

I am real glad that she picked up a nice job.(In a previous post you said she was on EB1 and hadn't.)

techy2468 said:
BTW why are we even doing this debate on this forum...............

You started the India Bashing on a public forum and rattled many of us. Some of us are neither Indian Citizens nor USC. Every one on this forum has the aptitude to surf the net and draw conclusions...
None of us are bothered about "Why you do not wan't to go to India". That's a personal choice. ...but YES we are bothered when you denigrate something that is common to all.People migrate for numerous reasons..economic disparity is just one of them. Had yours been a asylum case due to repression mebbe some of us would have helped you in our capacities subject to being convinced that your intentions were genuine and you had been wronged. If you have personal reason's then the right choice would have been to ask for help discreetly on specific aspects.
There was NO need to paste that article , irritate a majority and start a flame thread.

LAST POST on this thread.viel Glück :)
 
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techy2468 said:
now lets not try to figure out each other........but for your info.....my combined household income is >90k..........my wife is a PhD........working as a researcher in health science....

i do agree that i missed merit seats because of bad high schooling...

now coming back to the discussion.....india vs USA:

you will have to agree though that at min wage= $6/hr (most people get this....even though it is slightly higher than federal rule)

USA ----->$6/hr= $12k/yr......is the min salary....

India----->Rs.750/month= Rs. 11000/yr = $196/yr

can you see the difference now......i do agree that cost of living is less in india (though in bigger cities of india.....there is not much diff now).

but can you see the difference in purchasing power.....

do you know that electronics, automobile and other manufactured goods cost almost the same all over the world (with few exceptions of course).....

BTW why are we even doing this debate on this forum.............where 100s of thousands of people from india are waiting to get their GC even though they get bonded to the same employer with no job satisfaction for 4-5 years(even though getting a Driving license, EAD, VIsa renewal etc is becoming painful every day) .........dont you think this is a proper sign......that USA is 10 times better than india........

dont you think....that this 100k people would have packed their bags and said goodbye to this indifferent country..........dont you think that they are willing to live a tough 4-5 years for a better future......

the writing is there on the wall....but i guess....some of us...just dont want to read it.....even though most of us live by it everyday....


so finally you are coming to the simple reason not to go back to India its the good old conversion ratio, $1 = rs 45. however you slice and dice that is the first and foremost reason, the rest of the reasons comes next. some of the original reasons posted her don't mean much to many ppl.

I guess majority would agree about the saving potential while you work in the USA. many people put up with waits and queues because of the "$1=rs45" this is the desi version of economic relativity. money my friend is a big motivator. If we all admit the simple fact tht we are here for the money and move on, life will be easier. actually i like the debate without the acrimony, its nice to keep you occupied, when you have nothing much to do.
 
michael_holding said:
many people put up with waits and queues because of the "$1=rs45" this is the desi version of economic relativity. money my friend is a big motivator. If we all admit the simple fact tht we are here for the money and move on, life will be easier. actually i like the debate without the acrimony, its nice to keep you occupied, when you have nothing much to do.

dude, are you saying that.......all indians are putting up with this GC wait because of the "$1=rs45".

hey on another note.....whoever said money is not important.....i hope we dont have to debate this point that money is the number one motivator/reason for us to go to work......otherwise......80% of would prefer doing something else than our current jobs....

so please do not extend this debate to money factor......we all know its important.....

money is important.....and thats why everyone in the world tries to get most of it.....while having to do reasonable things........putting up with reasonable stress......

but i cant we make money working in india, UK, Australia or timbuktoo, why USA??..

my point is that in the whole world....USA is the number one place to make money and have fun while making it......because USA offers the most opportunities in a stable environment with good lifestyle.......and the "income/cost of living" ratio is the best in USA.....(i can say its almost 5 times better than in india.....even if being in IT i get a salary of Rs. 8-10 lacs....)
 
dude, are you saying that.......all indians are putting up with this GC wait because of the "$1=rs45".


--- I never said "ALL" i am saying many and i know for sure i am not wrong.
the percentage could be 40-50% of Indians living in the states are here because of the conversion ratio. I can speak for myself, I am here for the $$$.

hey on another note.....whoever said money is not important.....i hope we dont have to debate this point that money is the number one motivator/reason for us to go to work......otherwise......80% of would prefer doing something else than our current jobs....

--- I am not debating about money. Are you??


so please do not extend this debate to money factor......we all know its important.....

--- who says i want extend this debate? but if someone wants to argue money is not important, i totally understand their point of view. In a practical sense money is important for you and your family security. In a philosophical sense i would think losing your mind to earn money is not good.

money is important.....and thats why everyone in the world tries to get most of it.....while having to do reasonable things........putting up with reasonable stress......

----- i agree

but i cant we make money working in india, UK, Australia or timbuktoo, why USA??..

--- i am not sure what you mean??? but if you are saying people make money in other parts of the world, yes they do, just because you and i are in USA does not mean people don't make in other places or they do not live in other places.
my point is USA is not the only place, in today's global market you can make money living everywhere.
plus since USA being the #1 economy in the world, the engine of global growth and the number IT market, with immigrant friendly laws (compared to other western nations) and transparency attracts people. but then there is a limit to immigration here to. we won't see much more immigration in the future when the outsourcing hits peak volume, cuz there won't be that many jobs in IT here anyways that might need immigrants, local people might be up in arms at that point.


my point is that in the whole world....USA is the number one place to make money and have fun while making it......because USA offers the most opportunities in a stable environment with good lifestyle.......and

---- depends on who you ask and what their priorities are, yes its an easier place to make money.

the "income/cost of living" ratio is the best in USA.....(i can say its almost 5 times better than in india.....even if being in IT i get a salary of Rs. 8-10 lacs....)
---- i am not sure where else you lived, apart from rural Alabama. but if you think the whole of USA is like your birmingham, Alabama..welcome to the real world, cause you ain't seen S*** here. that is all i can say.
again i am not sure how you come up with these ratios, lifestyles choices are different for different people. i may chose to sleep on a $30 sleeping bag. some one might want sleep on a "sealy posturpedic" mattress for $1000 or more. even if you earn a million dollars, your wants will always exceed what you earn. if you can be happy you can be happy making 8-10 lacs in India.
again it depends on what you want. so your point about income/cost of living might apply to you , but not to me or some otherperson.
i would say that is your personal opinion. i would add this if you intend to earn here and spend here, suddenly you don't have a whole to work with.
if you intend to earn here and say save (200k) as you mentioned in another thread and live in India, i can see a lot of positives in that line of thinking.
 
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well finally we agree to each other more thats good.....and i guess now we are concluding with the fact that usa is a good place to be....

when i say "income/cost of living", please use a little imagination, since it implies for same lifestyle......

i have been in other parts of usa.....and if i was to shift location to east coast/west coast.....i will get more money.....but i will have to spend more money.......but the biggest loss would be my time......lost during all the travel.......since it takes forever to be anywhere.....

if only there were enough businesses(or if i had a GC).......this small alabama town....is a dream place to live....
 
do not want to extend the debate too much; but my thoughts on the income/cost of living ratio aspect.
In different parts of the world, the standard of living is different; hence, the cost of living is different and so is the income demanded by workers.
US GDP is 2/3rd consumer spending and 1/3rd business spending.
People spend money and therefore need to make more. So, the incomes are higher in this country. Incomes also need to keep rising continuously; so that spending continues to rise. The flip side is that businesses can find cheaper workers elsewhere and hence outsource to places where people need and hence demand lower income.
For lifestyle in developed country, the income in developed country is probably just enough. If one tries to maintain developing-country-lifestyle in a developed country, they will save a lot.
Why, I know people on student visas (who can be paid for only 20 hr/week and earn ~$15-20/hr + tuition waiver) save good money and still maintain better lifestyles than their home countries!
Trying to maintain developed-country-lifestyle in a developing country is not sustainable.
 
i am not disputing the fact that "USA is a good place to be", i was never arguing on that fact. i think the majority of people (including me) who had other views were arguing from the Indian standpoint.
From my view, i think there a problems everywhere, one thing might be a problem for some, for other it might not be. depends on your view.

I think tushar hit the nail on the head about lifestyles.
when i go to India, i am happy to travel in trains and buses, i can live without the car. In america i can't live without a car for a single day. apart from some of the big ticket items, an IT guy in B'lore can afford the same lifestyle as you and me with 8 lacs per annum salary in India.

i would say its better to live in cheaper areas than bust your back in the expensive metropolitan areas. you have it good in Alabama, may not be as cosmopolitan, but a good place nonetheless. housing is cheaper, not many tolls, gas cheaper. i would think atlanta, charlotte are better alternatives , in that you can find some desi population (not sure how it is in alabama). i lived for a short while in Tallahasse, FL, it was great a lot cheaper than Northeast.
 
Let me add one thing though.......i have friends in bangalore,my juniors who have bought apartment on loan and drive a car on loan....But there is a small surprise,they dont pay a penny for either out of teir pocket...its the old desi style of rotating.
The rent they get from the apartment is more than the minimum monthly payment,not to forget the land value just keeps going up...So all the money they make from jobs are going into shares.
Seriously,another thing i was in bangalore last yr for like 3 months and i hardly know of a single person who makes 750 rs a month...i am even talking of maid's dude.....
I remember the freekin driver we had used to get paid like 5k and still he used to complian tht it was less and tht dude is hardly 19,no other guy would drive a car for 5k a month.So no idea where u got this that in a metro a guy makes 750 on a average(minimum salary.)
One of my neighbour in india relocated ,i guess he used to work here for nasa and tht dude was laid off with no job for over a year and 2 kids[2002],now he gets paid like 2,000,000/yr.
So like the guy in the video says we are set to take on the world(well obviously at the mercy of pakistan/simi/sonia)
Anyways only thing i hate about india is corruption and politicians....I was watching some news [cnn],where tht coward mulayam singh openly says simi should not be dragged into this mess.Talk of politicians bargaining for votes.
btw,you definitely have a good career in politics in india.Dont you know its for ppl with low self esteem and who are prepared for sauda's??? :D
Kidding buddy,take it easy!
 
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techy2468 said:
now lets not try to figure out each other........but for your info.....my combined household income is >90k..........my wife is a PhD........working as a researcher in health science....
most of the desis here,single handedly make more than that.

i do agree that i missed merit seats because of bad high schooling...


now coming back to the discussion.....india vs USA:

you will have to agree though that at min wage= $6/hr (most people get this....even though it is slightly higher than federal rule)

USA ----->$6/hr= $12k/yr......is the min salary....[how much do u save?]

India----->Rs.750/month= Rs. 11000/yr = $196/yr [r u talking of 80's btw the cost index is again 1:5,so we r talking the same.Only diff bad streets and corruption.?]

can you see the difference now......i do agree that cost of living is less in india (though in bigger cities of india.....there is not much diff now).

but can you see the difference in purchasing power.....

do you know that electronics, automobile and other manufactured goods cost almost the same all over the world (with few exceptions of course).....
I 'd say more in india.


BTW why are we even doing this debate on this forum.............where 100s of thousands of people from india are waiting to get their GC even though they get bonded to the same employer with no job satisfaction for 4-5 years(even though getting a Driving license, EAD, VIsa renewal etc is becoming painful every day) .........dont you think this is a proper sign......that USA is 10 times better than india........
yeah,i had the same opinion as u,but once i got stuck in citizenship and seeing all the people stuck with uscis,i definitely feel all govt agencies are the same.
I would say india papers move faster

dont you think....that this 100k people would have packed their bags and said goodbye to this indifferent country..........dont you think that they are willing to live a tough 4-5 years for a better future......
definitely life is better here,we dont have hostile neighbours/no corruption affecting our daily lives.I love the life here,but at the same time dont try to trade india for ur gc.

the writing is there on the wall....but i guess....some of us...just dont want to read it.....even though most of us live by it everyday....
The wall again was mainly for people on a high![We dont need no EDUCATION!]

Anways buddy,just have fun but dont condemn india[sincere request],most probably the reason u got a h1 is cuz of ur indian citizenship.And dont try to make it seem like its india vs america...we all know the motherland of desis is u.s.a..... :D :D :D
There might be a day when native americans might get bugged of u.s.a and migrate but we will never do that.
 
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Humour note

On a humour note :

Just don't take 3 meals continously and remain hungry for a day; then i can bet everybody will forget all about GC, India, USA except food :)

Have fun

Thanks,
 
techy2468 said:
if not for the positive development in the past 7-8 years.....i would have preferred to have gone illegal and work in a gas station(i know many people who have done this in the past) (7-8 years back.....decent salary was only rs. 15k, and the number of jobs were 10 times less than the current number, atleast in IT) and if you were to take a closer look you will realise that the news that india was 12th richest was just reflecting the GDP
I expected, you would make another one of those statements in the air, about being an illegal. It is easier to say than to actually do. Atthough several illegals live here, do you how many people here treat illegals as dirt.. Also, I too know a few people from India who worked at gas stations, but that was when they were studying in college here, as a temporary phase in their lives.. I dont know if any good techy guy would prefer not to work in India in AC office environment, compared to physical labor in US, that too as an Illegal., and some car drivers always looking at you suspiciously as if you are from different planet, due to your color. Anyway, you would choose to prefer that kind of life, thats your choice.. 8 years ago, there was that Y2k boom and jobs were not as difficult to get, for good meritious candidates, Except a couple of years around Sept 2001, demand for IT workers in India has always been good in last 10 years.

Coming back your comments on GDP and proverty, I know India is currently 12th just in total GDp not in per capita Income. The point of that link was India has come from maybe from 20-25 (or some number around that) to position 12th right now. If we continue to grow at 8-9% we will break into top ten next year. Currently, the income sharing is limited to upper and urban middle class, while most of rural people left behind. There are always problems and people will always worry about growth. There are lots of negatives and Indian economy though not running as effecient as we know it can be, is still fastest growing in the world, maybe second only to China. Follow those links as well. Every other days, the Indan boom is reported in CNN, MSNBC, fox etc.

I have very less faith in politicians there as well as here. However, have lot of faith in Indian enterpreneurs like Premji, Murthy, Mittal and list goes on. The progress in economy has come a lot from Enterpreneurs, sceintists and hard working worker Bees more than politicians. According to me, we have been lucky to have good finance miniters like MM Singh, ChIdambaram from last decade or so,. States like Andhra and Karanataka had good cheif ministers for a while and have seen good progress in their cities.. Bangolore, Hydrabad. I have seen Media reports saying that Indian growth is more bottoms-up than top-down, because it the people that driving up the progress.

I have more faith in India progressing lot more than you changing your view about her.
 
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gc_aug_05 ....let me surprise you by this comment of mine...

there will be nobody more happy than me if india progresses as per your faith......all my family and friends are in india.....and if india does well.....that gives me a solid backup that i wont have to put up with this dont-care-for-aliens usa system...

but unlike you i dont have much hope....and hence i am not counting on it much.....but i wish that your faith turns out true....
 
techy2468 said:
gc_aug_05 ....let me surprise you by this comment of mine...

there will be nobody more happy than me if india progresses as per your faith......all my family and friends are in india.....and if india does well.....that gives me a solid backup that i wont have to put up with this dont-care-for-aliens usa system...

but unlike you i dont have much hope....and hence i am not counting on it much.....but i wish that your faith turns out true....
techy2468,

I have been reading this thread for quite sometime. There is enourmous information on immigration in these forums that we will not get any lawyers web sites. Please remember that many non-indians will also be reading all these chit chatting about our country.

Also, this space is provided courtesy Rajiv Khanna and others. I find these forums a great help to know about current immigration rules and plan for our future accordingly. There are lot of other free forums like r2iclub on msn for india/us discussions.

Micheal_Holding and others,
Please ignore provacative postings. Certain things in this country can be tought and learned only by self experience. It just does not matter how much the other person explains.
 
Ignore On Move On.....

Request to ALL.
Could it be possible to ignore multi minded techy?

Whatever the debate is, India is always India and USA is always USA. People willing to live in India will live in India and willing to move to USA will move to USA anyway. Steady mind is required to do any thing, Also every person will have thier own inner mind, that will win finally what ever debate was.

Ignore and move on. More the debatewe make, will make techy the HERO.

GCLover007
 
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