Why did you apply for Citizenship. Top 3 reasons please !!

[König]

A lot of people come here not because of freedom and democracy but simply because the economy in their native countries is so bad that they are unable to feed their families.

Canada, for example, also has freedom and democracy. As a matter of fact, Canadians enjoy even more social freedoms than Americans. However, people still prefer to immigrate to the USA and not Canada. Why? It means that the US can offer more than just freedom and democracy. This makes me wonder why so many people concentrate on the latter two? Is it because they were persecuted in their countries of origin?

 

[Citizenwannabe]

1. Sponsor relatives
2. Improved business / career opportunities

 

[TheFree]

A lot of people come here not because of freedom and democracy but simply because the economy in their native countries is so bad that they are unable to feed their families.

Canada, for example, also has freedom and democracy. As a matter of fact, Canadians enjoy even more social freedoms than Americans. However, people still prefer to immigrate to the USA and not Canada. Why? It means that the US can offer more than just freedom and democracy. This makes me wonder why so many people concentrate on the latter two? Is it because they were persecuted in their countries of origin?

Exactly, freedom is cherished more than anything else because of past persecution!!!

 

[TheRealCanadian]

Canada, for example, also has freedom and democracy. As a matter of fact, Canadians enjoy even more social freedoms than Americans.

Social freedoms are merely a subset of freedom in general. In Canada I can marry my 16-year-old gay lover but I cannot legally own a satellite dish from DirecTV, nor do I have an inherent right to private property.

Where I think the US ranks far higher than any other nation on the planet is the right to freedom in the sense of "the right to be left alone". Many other nations, while they may have a lot of social freedoms, are very collective in their outlook.

 

[König]

Social freedoms are merely a subset of freedom in general. In Canada I can marry my 16-year-old gay lover but I cannot legally own a satellite dish from DirecTV, nor do I have an inherent right to private property.

Where I think the US ranks far higher than any other nation on the planet is the right to freedom in the sense of "the right to be left alone".

"The right to be left alone" would warrant the end of the war on drugs, the right to marry your 16-year-old gay lover and would definitely lower the adult age from 21 to 18. However, I do not see the USA ever planning on doing that. Just because the police is not trying to beat you up or kill you and a government bureaucrat is not trying to extort a bribe from you does not mean you enjoy the absolute freedom and democracy. It is hard to understand for those folks who have the above experience in their countries of persecution, but for people who immigrated from democratic and free countries, albeit somewhat collective in their nature, it would not seem as such. For me social freedoms seem more important than financial freedoms, but I guess people have their own preferences.

 

[ganjik]

In my ten years here on this board, I've seen dozens of cases of criminal inadmissibility, deportation, etc. Not one claimed to be innocent, interestingly enough, which is quite unusual.

Lookup my posts, I claim complete innocence, my case was dismissed. However I had a hell of a time just because in the process i realized i was charged with a deportable offence. This changed my defence strategy - I dont feel completely satisfied, don't feel I've got a justice but I did ensure the safety of my GC status. I dont want to put more details, but would just say that situation in my case was beyond my control. Now, I'll get a citizenship to insulate myself and my close people I need to sponsor from anything like i've experienced.

 

[PerpetualGC]

There's persecution and there's persecution... In Ye Olde Country if you have the right political connections, the sky's the limit income wise, and tough luck otherwise.

If you want to party all weekend, Ye Olde Country is the place to be. As my wife observed on her first visit, Friday night rush hour traffic is FAR worse than Monday morning rush hour...

Now, if you're a geek and want to do real work and write software instead of jumping on an Airbus every week to Brussels to work on 'pressing EU matters', Ye Olde Country falls flat. A few countries in Europe have gotten the clue and have developed serious technological opportunities for us geeks (Germany comes to mind, and what I saw of the hi-tech scene in France was encouraging, and my Swedish buddies are uber-geeks as well); however, they're a bit too 'monolithic', too continental regarding their less than fortunate EU cousins .

Then it's the stress. Life in Europe is far less stressing than in the US. If my buddies in Germany fall behind on a project, they call in the cavalry from the US subsidiary and warm bodies are dropped ODST style to work. 5 or 6 PM and they're, dude, GONE. Not us ODST's . Some people like this. Some, like me, enjoy the perpetual graduate student like all-nighters, the stress, etc. Keeps you young, really. Those of you in your 20's writing software, think what you'll look like at 50 pulling all nighters, then come back the next day and play a couple rounds of Halo 3: ODST with your kids. (in other words, if you want to stay a perpetual teenager, Europe is not the place to do it )

Then there's the cultural focus on material goods in the US versus elsewhere. I can't help but wonder that every time I see my relatives' houses in Ye Olde Country, they're the same, maybe the TV has been upgraded, but that's it. Here, for better or worse, we're more materialistic. Again, some people hate it, some like it.

 

[WBH]

Lookup my posts, I claim complete innocence, my case was dismissed. However I had a hell of a time just because in the process i realized i was charged with a deportable offence. This changed my defence strategy - I dont feel completely satisfied, don't feel I've got a justice but I did ensure the safety of my GC status. I dont want to put more details, but would just say that situation in my case was beyond my control. Now, I'll get a citizenship to insulate myself and my close people I need to sponsor from anything like i've experienced.

Innocent or not innocent it does not matter to any person involved. Citizenship can protect you from a lot of hassle whether you deserve it or not. It is same like bill of rights. It is ridiculous to say that a good person does not need those Bill of Rights and a good person should not fear
having to testify, unauthorized search by police etc. Good people can only be protected when bad people also enjoy rights.

Just because some "good" persons claim "bad" person should be punished and they deserve it,, the real person in this world need
protection and citizenship provide such protection. If "good" persons think "bad" person do not deserve protection, they
can talk to their senators/reps to make law tougher. There is absolutely northing wrong in fact it i s perfectly reasonable
for anyone to apply for citizenship if his purpose is to shield himself from deportation due to potential crminal issue in the
future and that is one of benefits touted by standard legal advice. People who do not agree can lobby to change law
to make naturalized citizens also deportable for post-citizenship offenses.

 

[Jackolantern]

Lookup my posts, I claim complete innocence, my case was dismissed. However I had a hell of a time just because in the process i realized i was charged with a deportable offence. This changed my defence strategy - I dont feel completely satisfied, don't feel I've got a justice but I did ensure the safety of my GC status.

Exactly. The citizen/noncitizen distinction has even more significance because a dismissal in the court can still be classified as a conviction by USCIS. An innocent citizen can make a deal such as agreeing to do 200 hours of community service with the case dismissed at completion of the service. But the "punishment" of 200 hours would make it a conviction for immigration purposes, so the noncitizen is not in a position to accept that deal if he/she wants to avoid deportation and it is a deportable offense. Refusing to accept the deal likely means they'd have to fight the case in a trial (which either requires money for bail, or being locked up waiting for the trial), and risk a prison sentence if (wrongly) found guilty.

For me, the deportability issue where crimes are concerned is in my top 3 of why I want to apply for citizenship, not because I plan to commit crimes (I don't), but because I want to be able to defend my innocence with the same level of strength and rights that citizens have.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

I want to be able to defend my innocence with the same level of strength and rights that citizens have.

But any alien (well, I suppose short of an enemy combatant) already has this ability. I don't see the ability to take a plea without additional immigration consequences as "defending your innocence with the same level of strength".

I interpret that as pleading not guilty and fighting until you are acquitted without any consequences or conditions. And anyone can do that.

 

[Jackolantern]

But any alien (well, I suppose short of an enemy combatant) already has this ability. I don't see the ability to take a plea without additional immigration consequences as "defending your innocence with the same level of strength".

I interpret that as pleading not guilty and fighting until you are acquitted without any consequences or conditions. And anyone can do that.

Anybody can fight the charges to the end if they want. But they can't do that with the same level of strength, because of the different consequences involved.

And I am referring to the entire picture of defending, pleading, bargaining, and so on, not just the scenario of somebody who decides to fight everything to the end no matter what they're charged with.

For example, if I am offered 200 hours community service with a dismissal at the end, without pleading guilty, that protects my innocence if I am a citizen. Provided I complete the service, the court won't find me guilty, I don't plead guilty, and I move on without any conviction on my record. But if I am a noncitizen and the crime is deportable, I cannot accept the deal and maintain innocence, due the USCIS definition of a conviction. To protect my innocence, I have to suffer the expense and time involved of fighting it out until they either drop the charges or the jury finds me Not Guilty, and I take the risk of a nontrivial prison sentence.

In another scenario, someone might be offered a choice between pleading guilty to X which is not deportable, vs. pleading not guilty and risk being convicted of Y which is deportable. That makes it doubly risky for the noncitizen to fight the charges; the noncitizen clearly does not have the same position of strength (as a citizen) when negotiating the deal or making the decision to fight or plea.

 

[WBH]

Anybody can fight the charges to the end if they want. But they can't do that with the same level of strength, because of the different consequences involved.

I figured that many people think a good reason should be a reason that is for
somethings that has a very high probability of occurring. If you most likely
want to tovote, then you need to become a citizen. If you have parents who
want to coem to USA, then you need to be a citizen to sponsor them. You
don't want to become a citizen if the reason is that you can eat in a Macdonald's
because the chance that one day only citizens can eat in a Macdonals's is ZERO.
And unless you are a careeer crminal, the chance
of one day comming a crime or being wrongly charged is very small so that
the reason of becoing a citizen being protection form deportation is not a
good reason.

Let it be a personal choice. Unless objected by USCIS according to law,
all reasons are good reasons. USCIS does not even ask why applicants want
to become citizens as a standard. I believe if they do ask, most people
would coem up with standard answer like "American is great country
so I want to become its citizen. I want to vote etc" regardless what they
really think in their heart.

 

[Jackolantern]

I figured that many people think a good reason should be a reason that is for
somethings that has a very high probability of occurring. If you most likely
want to tovote, then you need to become a citizen. If you have parents who
want to coem to USA, then you need to be a citizen to sponsor them. You
don't want to become a citizen if the reason is that you can eat in a Macdonald's
because the chance that one day only citizens can eat in a Macdonals's is ZERO.
And unless you are a careeer crminal, the chance
of one day comming a crime or being wrongly charged is very small so that
the reason of becoing a citizen being protection form deportation is not a
good reason.

Talk to people who have done jury duty, and people who have been wrongly charged. The chances of being wrongly charged are not as small as you think, especially for a black man in America (which I am). It's at least as bad as the chances of dying before 45. And people under 45 buy life insurance even if they don't participate in dangerous activities like skydiving or mountain climbing. If the odds of dying before 45 can justify life insurance, the odds of being wrongly charged is a good reason to buy deportation insurance.

 

[WBH]

Talk to people who have done jury duty, and people who have been wrongly charged. The chances of being wrongly charged are not as small as you think, especially for a black man in America (which I am). It's at least as bad as the chances of dying before 45. And people under 45 buy life insurance.

I fully agree with you (as I said the Bill of Rights become meaningless if there is no such thing as wrongly charged or unsualy and cruel punishemt
for minor violation of laws). My point is that some people may think that chance is not big enough or at least not enough for
themselves. For practical reasons for best personal protecttion, I do think the right not to be deported should be
among the top three reasons. But let that be personal decisions it is meaningless to argue whose reasons are better than
whose and it is absurd to assume citizenship based upon on reason is at higher level than citizenship based upon another reason.

 

[gcMeansWait]

Guys,
I know couple of guys are comparing the Canada vs USA. Here are more reasons to feel great about being US citizen than being a citizen of Canada/Australia/Newzealand (i.e. long time british colonies).

1. Obviously USA has numerous opportunities in addition to great freedom and democracy
2. Canada is much much colder to live, where as you can migrate within US states in the appropriate temerature zones of your likings (you do not have this freedom in Canada).
3. I equate Canada/Australia and Newzealand as same because the economic opportunites are limited in these commonwealth counries though Canada is improving year by year, still the weather sucks.
4. Gays also have equal rights as US (Noth East) also permits the gay marriages as same as Canada.

Also when you talk about bill of rights, remember that we have african american president, Colin Powell, Miss Rice were secretary of state and couple of governers are also african americans. Look at the football teams, basketball teams - most of them are african americans. Look at singers - Michael Jackson etc....