What's the worst case scenario?

[Sarah9898]

I would like to apply for citizenship, but I am not sure that if I have satisfied the continuous residence requirement (i.e. I have the requisite number of days within the country, but the length and frequency some of my trips out the country from 4+ years ago may raise some questions). Since then, however, everything has been fine. My question is: what is the worst that can happen if I apply and just see what happens? I don't mind losing the $685, but also don't want to risk losing my green card for whatever reason. Is there any reason to be afraid of that, or am I just over-stressing?

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[WBH]

I would like to apply for citizenship, but I am not sure that if I have satisfied the continuous residence requirement (i.e. I have the requisite number of days within the country, but the length and frequency some of my trips out the country from 4+ years ago may raise some questions). Since then, however, everything has been fine. My question is: what is the worst that can happen if I apply and just see what happens? I don't mind losing the $685, but also don't want to risk losing my green card for whatever reason. Is there any reason to be afraid of that, or am I just over-stressing?

Thank you in advance for your help.

I don't think losing your GC is possible. You do not ahve to worry about that. I don't think USCIS
is really serious about taking GC away from those who stay outside USA too long too often.

 

[BigJoe5]

Even if you broke your residence by staying abroad too long. You only need to wait 4 years and 1 day after you get back to be eligible to apply. You seem to be at that point.

 

[Sarah9898]

Even if you broke your residence by staying abroad too long. You only need to wait 4 years and 1 day after you get back to be eligible to apply. You seem to be at that point.

Really? Would you be able to point me to the regulation/form that says this?

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[Huracan]

Look for the guide to naturalization in Google or the USCIS website. The rule is worded slightly differently. It says that they will credit you 364 days of your absence, so then you need 4 years and 1 day to add to the 364 days to complete the 5 years requirement. If you have complied with the continuous residence requirements for more than 4 years and 1 day you should be fine and not have to worry about it for your naturalization.

 

[madh4]

It is question of is there any trips over one year ? If so, is it supported by re-entry permit. Is there any period for which the IO can claim that you have abandoned the GC/PR. That could end up in problems.

Please post dates of trips and experts can comment. In some cases it is better to wait for full 5 years from a long trip than apply as per 4year1day rule.

 

[Sarah9898]

It is question of is there any trips over one year ? If so, is it supported by re-entry permit. Is there any period for which the IO can claim that you have abandoned the GC/PR. That could end up in problems.

Please post dates of trips and experts can comment. In some cases it is better to wait for full 5 years from a long trip than apply as per 4year1day rule.

Yes. I do have a re-entry permit that my family applied for after 2007 (my parents were admitted at the border, but the IP told them to apply for one). I have never used the re-entry permit though, because I rarely left the country after it was issued in 2008 (just for a few days here and there).

This leads to a follow-up question actually. I have had a GC since 1999--I was 13 years old then. Because of a family emergency (a member of the family was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness), my family entered the country to "establish" residency, then went back to deal with the illness, which lasted about 6 years (1999-2005). During this period, we came in and out every six months, but because I was young and this was before the time of electronic flight itineraries, I really have no record of these trips or when they occurred. We were in Canada, so entering/exiting the country was not a big enough deal that we have records of (it involved just driving across the border, no passport stamps, etc). F

From 2004-2008, I was an undergraduate student at a Canadian school. Since mid-2007 (right before I turned 21--it was not really feasible for me to move to another country on my own before then), I have been here (have a driver's license, bank account, apartment, getting a grad degree in a few months, etc). Here are my dates out of the country from 2005:

Sept 2005-May 2006 (for school)
June 2006-Aug 2007 (for school)
Sept 2007-Dec 2007 (for school)
Jan 2008-May 2008 (again, for school)

From May 2008 to present, I have been out for a negligible number of days (as in, maybe 20 total days). All trips were to Canada.

All these days coincide with my school attendance calendar. I have actual proof of travel for the trips starting in December 2007. Before that, the best I can muster up is the academic calendar for my school, although I'm not sure what this is worth.

How much hot water am I in?

 

[BigJoe5]

read 8 CFR 316.5(c)(1)(ii) it covers the breaks described in (i) and (ii) [that was settled by INS in 1993]

Re-entry permit or not, if they let you back in at the POE, it is ancient history now.

 

[Jackolantern]

I would like to apply for citizenship, but I am not sure that if I have satisfied the continuous residence requirement (i.e. I have the requisite number of days within the country, but the length and frequency some of my trips out the country from 4+ years ago may raise some questions). Since then, however, everything has been fine. My question is: what is the worst that can happen if I apply and just see what happens? I don't mind losing the $685, but also don't want to risk losing my green card for whatever reason. Is there any reason to be afraid of that, or am I just over-stressing?

Unless you have a criminal record, or there were discrepancies in your green card process, or you did some other forbidden thing like lying at the port of entry or voting, you're not going to lose the green card.

As far as travel is concerned, they don't care about trips that are more than 5 years ago (although you are expected to list all trips of 24+ hours since becoming a permanent resident).

 

[Bobsmyth]

(... but the length and frequency some of my trips out the country from 4+ years ago may raise some questions)

Here are my dates out of the country from 2005:

Sept 2005-May 2006 (for school)
June 2006-Aug 2007 (for school)
Sept 2007-Dec 2007 (for school)
Jan 2008-May 2008 (again, for school)

How much hot water am I in?

Instead of just applying to see what happens, determine if you meet the requirements first. From your travel dates, you stayed out continuously for over 1 year between June 2006-August 2007, but were readmitted without a reentry permit. If so, you most definitely broke continuous residence at that time.
How much time did you spend in US between your 2007-2008 trips? If if was only for a few days, the IO may interpret these back to back trips as an intent to break continuous residency.

If using the 4 year +1 day rule, the earliest you can apply is August 2011. However, the IO can still scrutinize all your trips during statutory period.

If using the standard 5 year rule, the earliest you can apply is May 2012.

Either way, your GC status is not in jeopardy because you were successfully readmitted on numerous occasions after your August 2007 return.

 

[WBH]

Either way, your GC status is not in jeopardy because you were successfully readmitted on numerous occasions after your August 2007 return.

The OP's GC is safe but I am not sure if you can draw that conclusion just because he was
re-admiited. Does it mean re-admission always give a person a clean slate for keeping GC?
When the next re-admision come, the next IO may still decline admission based upon stay
outside USA prior to the previous re-admission.

I saw quite a lot of people here take a very cynical attitude about keeping their GC.
They have various reasons that tehy prefer to stay outside USA for long time. Their
attitude is that "I'll not come back to teh USAS if USCIS take away my GC but if
they do not then I'll come back". They can stay up to 2 years outside USAS without
even bother to get a re-entry permit, but I do not see they have problem coming back
to USA from time to time. But I think everytime they coem back, it does not mean
their past overseas stay will be wiped out for teh purpose of keeping GC (in case of these people,
they do not care that much but that is a notehr issue)

 

[Sarah9898]

How much time did you spend in US between your 2007-2008 trips? If if was only for a few days, the IO may interpret these back to back trips as an intent to break continuous residency.

I left as soon as my exams were done (mid-December, 2007) and came back a day or two before the spring semester started (mid-January, 2008). I then left again a few days after the spring semester (early May 2008) and, since I was done with school, have not been back for a long period of time since.

 

[Bobsmyth]

Does it mean re-admission always give a person a clean slate for keeping GC?

I think it's fair to say that multiple readmissions after such a lengthy stay make it highly unlikely that the GC status will be questioned at interview.

 

[Jackolantern]

The OP's GC is safe but I am not sure if you can draw that conclusion just because he was
re-admiited. Does it mean re-admission always give a person a clean slate for keeping GC?
When the next re-admision come, the next IO may still decline admission based upon stay
outside USA prior to the previous re-admission.

The OP's GC is safe from cancellation as far as the naturalization process is concerned. That doesn't mean it's safe from all angles; the next reentry attempt could result in a warning or confiscation of the GC, depending on the travel pattern. But such an occurrence would not be due to the naturalization application.

 

[Huracan]

Again, I wouldn't stress over this. You should apply, it is very highly unlikely that you'll have any issues around this. You have been admitted into the country after your long absences, it is hard to believe that they will raise a question during interview about this.

 

[BigJoe5]

A favorite motto of the Immigration Officers at JFK: "We ADMIT our mistakes!"

 

[WBH]

The OP's GC is safe from cancellation as far as the naturalization process is concerned. That doesn't mean it's safe from all angles; the next reentry attempt could result in a warning or confiscation of the GC, depending on the travel pattern. But such an occurrence would not be due to the naturalization application.

So the citizenship IO only forward crime-related deportable case to ICE but never forward other case where GC is questionable but would rather let the ICE only take care of this business when the card holder physically enter USA teh next time?

 

[WBH]

Again, I wouldn't stress over this. You should apply, it is very highly unlikely that you'll have any issues around this. You have been admitted into the country after your long absences, it is hard to believe that they will raise a question during interview about this.

Some IOs may be picky just for the fun of it. If they see a person stay outside USAS for 2 years but see in his A file that a re-entry permit was even never filed, would they be
able to help thmselves and ask:"how come you can came back? how come the boder could just let you in?". If tehy ask, can teh applciant:"It is not yoru business. Yoru business
is to determien if I am eligibel for citiznehsip".

I remmeber last year someone posted an issue that way before 5 years ago, he stayed outside USA for a very long time becaus ehe was going to even give up the GC
but later he came back anyway and eventually still filed for citizenship.

 

[madh4]

I agree with Bobsmyth. As you have more than a year break in 2007 you should apply only after completion of 4 year 1day since your return in 2007 ie Aug2011.

The chances of rejection of your N-400 are high if you apply now because of more than year absence. Why give them a chance to reject your case. However your GC is safe. Choice is yours. Gamble $675/- now or wait 10 months and get a sure citizenship.

 

[Jackolantern]

So the citizenship IO only forward crime-related deportable case to ICE but never forward other case where GC is questionable but would rather let the ICE only take care of this business when the card holder physically enter USA teh next time?

As far as I know, actions to cancel a GC for abandonment of residence are only initiated at the port of entry or when the individual is still outside the US. Once you are admitted without further orders (i.e. no deferred inspection or order to see an immigration judge), it is presumed that the POE officer made the determination that you did not abandon residence at that time.

Note that the POE officers have discretion to admit you even if your documents are not 100% in order. Even if you stayed out for over a year without a reentry permit or SB-1 visa, they still have the authority to let you in if your GC has not already been cancelled and you provide a sufficiently convincing story.

For somebody who stayed out over a year without a reentry permit or SB-1 visa, but were admitted after that trip anyway and are still inside the US, I figure the worst case scenario* arising from applying for naturalization is an investigation as to whether the individual lied at the POE in order to get back in after that long trip -- either lying about the length of the absence, or lied about the circumstances that kept them away for that long.


*assuming no other issues like convictions or voting or discrepancies in the GC process