****what Is 30-60-90 Days Rule After Getting Gc***

ar888 said:
I never wanted to get in to this job change discussion, but.. :)

The intention of AC-21 is to avoid the inconvenience/suffering to the applicant (in changing 'intent'/jobs) due to the extraordinary delay in GC adjudication. This is the reason, they said, I-140 should be approved and I-485 should be pending for 180 days or more to change the jobs, as long as the job falls under 'same or similar' category. Here the 'Same or similar' concept defines that the new company is your sponsor going forward. And once approved, you should have 'intent' to continue your employment with the company.

But one the GC is approved, the scenario is different, there is no concept of AC-21 here, as there is no inconvenience to the applicant (as he is already an employment basedGC holder). And again the applicant should have 'intent' to stick with your sponsoring employer, as the GC based on your employment (similar to Family GC is based on your Marriage).

And again, there is no 'rule' that how long you should stay with your employer. Individual circumstances may vary, that is the reason, 'rule of thumb' comes in to picture.
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Since already it took more then six months, inconvenience is already caused which is irrecoverable even after the approval.
We are missing an important Intent of AC-21 which was to clear this hurdle for going into the better opportunities. This was not just prior to the approval but continuously.
 
With AC21, a person can have the intent of changing jobs after 6months of filing I485. So at the time of approval, which is the time the adjudicator approves your application, you could be thinking about changing job (as per AC21 freedom). So AC21 has over written the old "intent" meaning. Old law says you should have intent of working for the GC sponsor, new law (AC21) says you can change GC sponsor. So which is correct ? Obviously the newer law prevails over the older law.
 
As there are no clear guidelines on this issue, any interpretation of the existing law is only as per our understanding/convenience. And it depends on the individual's decision, when to change the jobs, to avoid any risks in the future.
 
30-60-90

Hi Guys,

It has bee n close to one year since I posted on this website. I got approved in last year Jan and in Feb I quit the H1B Shop. I dont think I will have any problem -- even if there is a problem, I can prove that my employer did not pay me regularly and no hikes. Whatever, recently I travelled to india and came back and the GC worked !!!. Freedom is sweet - I feel that we should enjoy every day of it.
 
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One basic question. Most people say that INS would trouble you at the time of citizenzhip etc. How exactly does INS intend to prove that you did/did not work for an employer for a given period of time. I mean, are you expected you keep your pay stubs till kingdom come. There is no rule which is stated that I should keep proof of my employment with the current employer. I could see how they pull up tax records and see the time of employment. But at best they could narrow it down to a year since taxes are filed yearly. So this is mere speculation of all our part.

Despite years of specuation on this, and repeated discusssons on this and other site. I have not heard of a single case where anybody was denied any visa/entry/citizenship on this basis. That is why I think this is a bogus bogey man that some people repeatedly bring up.

Most people get raises, after getting their green cards with their current employer. Legally, this violates the law too since there was a specified salary for the position for which the GC was approved. Theoritically, there would be no raises or promotions for the job also (since we are dicing wordings in the current law). So let us not go into what permanent means, etc.

Basically, everything in life is a risk. You could slip in your bathtub and die. However, we do continue to take showers (I hope so :). So, it is for each of us to decide wether this is a risk we want to take.

On my part I think this is perfectly acceptable risk to take. But that is just my assumption.
 
vip1r said:
Most people say that INS would trouble you at the time of citizenzhip etc. How exactly does INS intend to prove that you did/did not work for an employer for a given period of time.
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When filing for naturalization, you need to list out your employment history.


vip1r said:
So, it is for each of us to decide wether this is a risk we want to take.
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Exactly.
 
I checked the form N-400 which is used to apply for citizenship, and it only requires you to fill the employment history for the last 5 years. So if we apply for citizenship at the year 6th after we get our GC, I think there should be no problem.

may_140
 
I don't think this is realistic. Some people applied for citizenship after 20 years they got GC. It totally doesn't make sense for them to check your entire employment history. We are just applying for citizenship, not a job in FBI or CIA. If they want to waste money on this, ok let's go for it.

My point is this 30-60-90 rule does not have solid ground at all. Some people got GC within 2 years, and others spent over 4 years. How can they say you have no intention to work for your GC sponsor after you've worked for them for 5 years. All to blame is this long, unfair GC process. If I got my GC within 2 years, sure I can work for the company for another 2 years. However, after 4 or 5 years working for the same company, I think everybody will be looking for some changes. You really get bored! If you've already wasted about 5 years in your current employer, why wait any more? Just go to find the opportunities you deserve.
 
dsatish said:
The very fact that CIS has neither come up with any guidance or regulation or negative action on this isssue, supports tammy2's assumption.
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

tammy2 asserted that AC21 even applied after the GC was approved. USCIS has said absolutely nothing on the matter. This should not be taken to mean that tammy2 is correct, or incorrect.

All I said is that if you take the opinion that AC21 is applicable after approval, you do so at your own risk, since there is no USCIS that would support you if at naturalization they decided that they didn't agree with you and tammy2.

Theoretically some adjudicator might create a problem if you leave too soon, but it is tough for CIS to prove it's case in the immigration court.
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Seihoon v. Levy is a good yardstick. It's been established federal court precedent for over a quarter-century.

They don't interpret law directly.
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Of course they do! They apply the law based upon the interpretations that they've been given. This is a gray area, where they haven't been given any interpretation. They'll either make their own, or they'll ask HQ. And there's a risk that you won't like the interpretation that comes back.

So as long as there are no regulations / guidance on this issue, i think that we can assume that a GC holder has freedom to chose any job immediately after getting the GC.
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You can assume at your own risk. That's all I've said one way or another.
 
may_140 said:
My point is this 30-60-90 rule does not have solid ground at all.
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Seihoon v. Levy has been established precedent in the US federal courts for over a quarter-century. That's pretty solid ground for case law - if you wish to argue that it's not applicable (and the whole concept of intent is meaningless in EB immigration) you can go ahead. I would not be too optimistic as to you chances of success if you decided to attack the precedent in court.

How can they say you have no intention to work for your GC sponsor after you've worked for them for 5 years.
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Because what happened before the GC was awarded is irrelevant. It's the same concept that lets people get approved I-485s via AC21 even if they've never worked for the sponsoring employer.

Look, if you quit right away, one of two things will happen. Either nothing, or the employer will complain to USCIS (or USCIS will complain at N-400 time). At that point, they'll probably bring up Seihoon v. Levy and you'll need to claim it doesn't apply and that thanks to AC21 intent is irrlelevant. At that point, the immigration (or US District) judge will probably say that intent still applies, Seihoon v. Levy provides an incredibly low threshold (60 or 90 days) and that you are SOL.

I'm amazed at all the people who wait 5, 10 15 years for a Green Card and then cannot wait another 90 days to keep themselves squeaky clean.
 
Yes you are right, Instead of find out any reasons to quit and join another company for better prospects now. I think we should look back, whatever the employer has done in past or there are world-full of better opportunities, You should wait for more 90 days. you have struggled and waiting for more than 3 years. Do not let employer complain and ruin all this process for which you waited so long.

I think you should wait for more 90 days and then explore your possibilities, I am under similar boat.

Can you please tell what would be 90 days count, Is it like after 485 Approval or the Day our Green Card is received.

What is the date on Green Card – for the approval ?

TheRealCanadian said:
Seihoon v. Levy has been established precedent in the US federal courts for over a quarter-century. That's pretty solid ground for case law - if you wish to argue that it's not applicable (and the whole concept of intent is meaningless in EB immigration) you can go ahead. I would not be too optimistic as to you chances of success if you decided to attack the precedent in court.



Because what happened before the GC was awarded is irrelevant. It's the same concept that lets people get approved I-485s via AC21 even if they've never worked for the sponsoring employer.

Look, if you quit right away, one of two things will happen. Either nothing, or the employer will complain to USCIS (or USCIS will complain at N-400 time). At that point, they'll probably bring up Seihoon v. Levy and you'll need to claim it doesn't apply and that thanks to AC21 intent is irrlelevant. At that point, the immigration (or US District) judge will probably say that intent still applies, Seihoon v. Levy provides an incredibly low threshold (60 or 90 days) and that you are SOL.

I'm amazed at all the people who wait 5, 10 15 years for a Green Card and then cannot wait another 90 days to keep themselves squeaky clean.
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Con_File_Feb said:
Can you please tell what would be 90 days count, Is it like after 485 Approval or the Day our Green Card is received.

What is the date on Green Card – for the approval ?
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Date of 485 approval, does not matter when the card is received.
 
IN case you quit your employer after getting GC to go School fulltime, do these 30-60-90 rules apply then also??
 
dragonking said:
after you get GC,

Is it 30-60-90 day rule
or is it 6 months with the current employer

I am confused!
Thanks
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There are no rules. Different people give different suggestions. The 30-60-90 guidance might apply even if you move to school also. But please remember that this 30-60-90 is just a general guidance INS might use in some scenarios (not sure if it uses for employment based GC through AOS). I personally feel that 90 days is very safe enough.
 
dsatish said:
There are no rules. Different people give different suggestions. The 30-60-90 guidance might apply even if you move to school also. But please remember that this 30-60-90 is just a general guidance INS might use in some scenarios (not sure if it uses for employment based GC through AOS). I personally feel that 90 days is very safe enough.
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When does the clock tick for this 30-60-90 rule?

- 485 approval date
- passport Stamping date
- Card received date

Thanks
 
From I485 approval date. One becomes a PR from the date of I485 approval. You will get the plastic card with an effective date o I485 approval date.
 
dsatish said:
From I485 approval date. One becomes a PR from the date of I485 approval. You will get the plastic card with an effective date o I485 approval date.
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Thanks Dsatish

So 90 days from the date of my 485 approval is my "Real" Independence day!
 
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