Visiting White Sands NM: Pack your Passport

pralay said:
How about stopping car on middle of the highway and take some pictures?
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Funnily enough, I actually pulled out of a gas station and by mistake drove onto the wrong ramp of the freeway. After driving for close to a mile, I realised that on the divided highway I was on, there was a lane running parallel on my right. DAMN! I was so pertified, I slammed the car into reverse and reversed the entire mile, reversed of the ramp, went on the right one, and through all this not a single car to bother with! :) What was so scary at that time, is now one of my funniest dinner time stories. :)

I haven't driven on the roads you mentioned, but Santa Fe to Roswell is the arterial route going North to South across the center of NM, so for all practical purposes it should be busy. I can tell you right after that trip, when we got back into the bay area, I was plenty glad to be caught in a massive traffic jam. :)

peace_of_mind,

There are one or two gas stations out there, but most of them close after dark because there is no traffic. And some of them are pump stations, so you can't even access it when the power is off. But having said that never had a problem with gas. But I made it a point to top it off at regular intervals.

If you haven't been to NM, I definitely recommend a visit. It is positively one of the most beautiful states I have been too. And having gone to 33 of them, I have a good frame of reference. The caverns are simply MIND BLOWING, not to mention the peublos and cities like Santa Fe, Taos and Albuquerque.
 
Hey 140_takes_4ever:
Wouldn't it have been easier for you to turn around and drive the "right way" instead of going in reverse for a mile ?!?!?

Oh yeah and the other truly deserted highway is I-10 east of Tucson, AZ to El Paso (TX)
 
pralay said:
Yes, that's a possibility. But if you are caught, you will go to jail. So the punishment of lying to a law enforcement officer is far greater than punishment of failure to show GC. It worths only when you illegal immigrant. As you are a legal resident, it simply does not worth to take that kind of risk.
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The problem is that most suicide-bomber type terrorists are probably not afraid of going to jail. Its been shown that terrorists do not have to be illegal imigrants as pralay mentioned above, as the bombers of 9/11 had legal L1 visas. They are the type of people who will take the risk and lie about being a USC. That's why its a huge security risk. Its just way too easy for a non-US Citizen to get away with it, they are always given the benefit of the doubt, with no way to double check their response in an efficient manner. The officer just has to accept the claim of citizenship at face value, unless he/she wants to take the presumed liar to the station for a few hours to confirm their identity.
 
pralay said:
Though there were talks going on to introduce a national ID card, but it's very unlikely going to happen soon. No, US citizen is not required to carry any sort of ID (not even a state DL or state Id card). It's a question of civil liberty. Govt has no right to collect information from a citizen without his/her will and hand over a plastic card with his/her face on it - that includes federal govt and state govts.
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I disagree.

1) I am often required to prove who I am when I use my credit card.
2) I am required to show proof of my age when I try to buy alcohol or cigarettes.
3) I am required to show proof of my ability to drive when I get pulled over for driving too fast. (driver's license card)
4) I am required to show proof of identity when I try to cash a check at a bank.
5) I am required to show proof of employment eligibility when I am hired for a new job. (Social Security Card)
6) I am required to show my voter registration card when I go vote.

There are countless other times the government or other private institutions have asked me to prove my identity. Showing proof that you are a legal US Citizen fits into the same category. There should be no need for the officer to guess whether you are telling the truth or not, and you should have the easy preferably wallet sized ability to prove it easily without carrying a US passport everywhere.
 
max2k1 said:
Wouldn't it have been easier for you to turn around and drive the "right way" instead of going in reverse for a mile ?!?!?
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It would if I hadn't completely panicked! :) By the time I thought things through, I was already travelling at some speed in reverse, after some time enjoyed hitting that speed in reverse something I had never done before. :)
 
It would if I hadn't completely panicked! By the time I thought things through, I was already travelling at some speed in reverse, after some time enjoyed hitting that speed in reverse something I had never done before.
:D :D :D you got me cracking 140

Wonder where the cops were :)
Seems the missed the chance to give 500$ ticket :D
 
140_takes_4ever said:
It would if I hadn't completely panicked! :) By the time I thought things through, I was already travelling at some speed in reverse, after some time enjoyed hitting that speed in reverse something I had never done before. :)
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I think I can safely assume that you were driving a rental ??? :D

I've done some real life tests on rentals .... like fastest speed in reverse, what happens if you shift to "P" when traveling at 30 mph -- stuff like that :D
 
Cops? Like I said before, did not pass a single car in 4 hours of driving. We were very worried about the whole thing, only when we saw the lights of Roswell did we calm down. :)

I am glad stories of my terror stricken travels are making some people smile. I was definitely not laughing then I can tell you.
 
curiousGeorge said:
I disagree.

1) I am often required to prove who I am when I use my credit card.
2) I am required to show proof of my age when I try to buy alcohol or cigarettes.
3) I am required to show proof of my ability to drive when I get pulled over for driving too fast. (driver's license card)
4) I am required to show proof of identity when I try to cash a check at a bank.
5) I am required to show proof of employment eligibility when I am hired for a new job. (Social Security Card)
6) I am required to show my voter registration card when I go vote.
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curiousGeorge,
I am not making my point, it's just law. There is no rule that says that a citizen must carry an ID. That pure form of citizenship right has nothing to do with cerdit card, mortgage, employment. I am not takling about the the right to get credit card or right to get employment, what I am talking about right for an US citizen to live in USA (and yes, without an ID). Now, to perform various works in society you need to have some form of proof your exsistence (or id) because you are negotiating with another individual or group (bank, credit union, employer). Your freedom ends where my nose it. That's why I need know who you are before I give a credit card. It has nothing to do with right or citizenship.

1. It's not mandatory for a citizen have a credit card (it's not right, but played by private bank's rule). I won't apply for credit card (credit card a property of a bank and they issue them with their own rule).

2. Checking age while selling alcohol is a law imposed to seller (not buyer) by local authority (city/county/state/country). It's not a law upon me or any alchohol buyer. There is no rule that say I cannot buy or drink alchohol. The rule is that I cannot sell alchohol without knowing the age of buyer. This point is irrelevent here. FYI, the law say if person looks under age, the seller must ask for ID. If someone doesn't not look under age, the seller is not required not to check id. If I know that my neighbor's son just had his 18th (or 21 on soem states) birthday, I can sell him alchohol without checking his id (because I know his age).

3. Getting DL is a privilege, not right. For example, providing thumb-print to state agency while getting DL is a compromise. If I want to save that liberty and don't want compormise, I can abstain from applying DL. Obviously I will loose the privilege of driving, but that that's the way it is. State govt is not going to ask to me that I must have my DL. FYI, there are lots of people live here who don't have DL. It's not a requirement of cititzenship or state residency.
4. Any employment requires two form of documents - not necessarily it has to be DL or particularly IDs. They could be voter registration card, school Id card even school-record for minors. BTW, social security card is not an ID.

5. Voter registration card is based on your citizenship. You don't compromise anything (unlike state DL or proposed national id) to obtain that card.



curiousGeorge said:
IThere are countless other times the government or other private institutions have asked me to prove my identity. Showing proof that you are a legal US Citizen fits into the same category. There should be no need for the officer to guess whether you are telling the truth or not, and you should have the easy preferably wallet sized ability to prove it easily without carrying a US passport everywhere.
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You already mentioned that terrorists are not necessarily illegal immigrants. Tell me, then how will a "wallet size" national ID solve the problem? I am sure all the 19 highjackers had their DL, passport, immigration documents. Would the absense (as they are immigrants) of a "wallet size" national ID stop them from boarding their flights?
 
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curiousGeorge said:
The problem is that most suicide-bomber type terrorists are probably not afraid of going to jail. Its been shown that terrorists do not have to be illegal imigrants as pralay mentioned above, as the bombers of 9/11 had legal L1 visas. They are the type of people who will take the risk and lie about being a USC. That's why its a huge security risk. Its just way too easy for a non-US Citizen to get away with it, they are always given the benefit of the doubt, with no way to double check their response in an efficient manner. The officer just has to accept the claim of citizenship at face value, unless he/she wants to take the presumed liar to the station for a few hours to confirm their identity.
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I did not understand your point at all.
I mentioned is that someone who is a good legal non-citizen resident should not try to lie about his/her citizenship/immigration status even if he/she does not have any immigration document with him/her (even though law says that he/she must carry one). If he/she gets caught without immigration document, in the worst case he/she will be in one night custody or pay some fine. But if he/she caught lying, he/she will go to jail for long time. Just an example, Martha Stewart is not going to jail for insider-trading, but for lying.

As side note:
In an OPEN and FREE country that is built by immigrants, there is always a security risk. And it's possible that someone always will get away through holes. And I don't think a national ID card will solve that problem.

BTW, Timothy MacVeigh or Unabomber Kaczynski were all US citizens. So only immigrant terrorists (illegal or legal) are not security risks. Would national ID stop what they did?
 
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max2k1 said:
I've done some real life tests on rentals .... like fastest speed in reverse, what happens if you shift to "P" when traveling at 30 mph -- stuff like that :D
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that's why the last used card I bought from Enterprise had clutch broken. :eek: :D
 
Pralay,
We agree that its not something that can be easily solved, but I still think there is value to having an optional national ID card (not a required card as mentioned above, this would never go over, I agree). Canada has a card like this. Its not required for its citizens to obtain, but it does come in handy for those who opted to get one.
 
curiousGeorge said:
Pralay,
We agree that its not something that can be easily solved, but I still think there is value to having an optional national ID card (not a required card as mentioned above, this would never go over, I agree). Canada has a card like this. Its not required for its citizens to obtain, but it does come in handy for those who opted to get one.
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Well, just showing/checking someone is an US citizen using national ID does not help anyway to find a terrorist. What matter is identity. And in our modern world we already have N number documents/IDs plus N number of ways to find or prove a person's identity. You have US passport. You have state DL. You have social security number. You have a home address and a phone number. You have a job, therefore employer and probably company ID card too. You can have Certificate of US citizenship (N-560). If you are naturalized citizen, you can have Certificate of Naturalization (N-550/N-570). You have a car and therfore car registration. Now, Tell me in what way an additional "wallet size" plastic card is going to provide any additional information about a person, that will help any law enforcement or border patrol.

If it's "optional", then you already have lots of existing optional documents I mentioned above. And "optional" means lots of people won't have (like most of the American citizens don't have passport). On the other way, govt telling all the citizen that they must possess national ID compormises civil liberty.

About security. To find terrorists, a country needs good intelligence, good surveillance and little bit of luck. A piece of additional ID or documents is good for nothing. Terrorist already have it before a good citizen obtains one.
 
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