Visiting White Sands NM: Pack your Passport

[pralay]

It is silly to expect people to carry their green cards on person all the time. I would think with all the trouble one has to go through in case of loss of card, you would want to keep it in a bank vault or something.

Even the INS rules specify that you only need to be know where the card is at all times and be able to get it upon demand, it is not essential to carry it with you. But I guess it would make more sense to always carry your A# on a piece of paper if asked, in case of questions.

It's silly but unfortunately it's THE rule (INA 264(e)). Unlike US citizen, aliens must carry documents to establish their status (GC for LPR and I-94 for visa holders/refugee). Not only border patrols, any law enforcement officer can ask your immigration status ("are you a citizen?") - it's perfectly legal. Fortunately, most of the law enforcement officers don't ask that because knowing immigration status does not help in anyway to keep law and order on streets (therefore that's not in their official guideline). However, there are incidents when immigrants were asked for documents by law enforcement (not border patrol). In fact couple of years back in the infamous Texas raid in an office, some H1 holders were arrested because they did not have their I-94 with them.

I myself don't carry my plastic card always. I can remember my A# though (just like my SSN). I am willing to take that risk - because risk of loosing it or getting stolen and then hassle of obtaining a new one is far greater than risk of encountering a situation when I would be asked to show my card.

However, I do carry my plastic card with me when I board on domestic flights (because I don't want to spoil my travel). But I never had to show by GC - everytime just showing DL was enough.

 

[pralay]

A brown skinned friend of mine was travelling through Texas by bus, when an old man sitting next to him asked him if he was from Michigan, this guy apparently thought, people living in Michigan are brown for some reason.

Probably he saw too many middle-easterns in Detroit.

The South lives in its own world, where the two main issues in everyone's lives are god and football, not necessarily in that order.

And guns.

 

[golumolu]

This is similar to the social security card. Something non-citizens are to carry at all times. Who carries it on person? The problems faced while trying to recover the card if lost are a sufficient deterrent to carrying it on person.

I think the best way to tackle the issue is to carry the A# with you at all times. Only if the officer is completely anal, will you still face problems.

I remember an old post that mentioned one such officer who threatened a gc holder that he would revoke his GC because he did not have it with him in person. So such people do exist. All the more reason to fight for early citizenship. Atleast then these problems will be reduced if not stopped. Nothing we can do about the color of our skin, but we shouldn't have to put up with badly trained, under motivated border patrol officers. Who think they are doing their duty, but are just harassing innocent immigrants.

just kidding u cud bleach your hair and change your color like mikey i mean michael jackson

 

[curiousGeorge]

A friend of mine carries a photocopy of the card. He's never been asked for it, so I don't know if this method works. The theory is that if an officer asks for it, you can show him the photocopy, and if he really needs to he can verify your A number. I highly doubt this would work in a POE situation, but at checkpoint it might be sufficient.

The big question here is why isn't there a card available for US Citizens to carry also? Then the checkpoints could reduce their paranoia ten fold. Most US Citizens don't carry a passport or a birth certificate with them, since its a bit too bulky for everyday use, so they have no proof of citizenship, but they should be required to carry proof of citizenship, just like a foreign national is required to show proof that he's NOT a US citizen. Its truly an issue of national security.

 

[peace_of_mind]

curiousGeorge,
You have a point... A non-USC can courageously answer that he/she is a citizen and can get away. A BIG SECUIRTY HOLE.

 

[wik]

The big question here is why isn't there a card available for US Citizens to carry also?

There's talk of it at the DHS. There was a show on this topic on NPR last week. I think if the government proposed it, it would get tied up in the courts for YEARS by civil libertarians.

 

[max2k1]

There's talk of it at the DHS. There was a show on this topic on NPR last week. I think if the government proposed it, it would get tied up in the courts for YEARS by civil libertarians.

True ..... One name prominently comes to mind John Gilmore -- a very prominent Civil Libertarian ..... he's suing the the attny General and the federal agencies --- he's claiming that having to show a photo ID before boarding a flight is infringing on his constitutional rights !!!

Given that, national ID cards seem next to impossible to implement

 

[golumolu]

There's talk of it at the DHS. There was a show on this topic on NPR last week. I think if the government proposed it, it would get tied up in the courts for YEARS by civil libertarians.

and if in the event this plan for cards for USC goes through GOD BLESS US WAITERS????????????????

 

[pralay]

The big question here is why isn't there a card available for US Citizens to carry also? Then the checkpoints could reduce their paranoia ten fold. Most US Citizens don't carry a passport or a birth certificate with them, since its a bit too bulky for everyday use, so they have no proof of citizenship, but they should be required to carry proof of citizenship, just like a foreign national is required to show proof that he's NOT a US citizen. Its truly an issue of national security.

Though there were talks going on to introduce a national ID card, but it's very unlikely going to happen soon. No, US citizen is not required to carry any sort of ID (not even a state DL or state Id card). It's a question of civil liberty. Govt has no right to collect information from a citizen without his/her will and hand over a plastic card with his/her face on it - that includes federal govt and state govts.

 

[pralay]

A friend of mine carries a photocopy of the card. He's never been asked for it, so I don't know if this method works. The theory is that if an officer asks for it, you can show him the photocopy, and if he really needs to he can verify your A number. I highly doubt this would work in a POE situation, but at checkpoint it might be sufficient.

I don't much about it, but photocopy should work, if you can explain that it's hassle and time-consuming thing get a new one when you loose it. If you do color photocopy (plus laminate) and you are not in a situation to explain, an officer can think that you are trying to show a "fake" GC (they are easily available in LA downtown - some of them look pretty real). Mark "COPY" or "PHOTOCOPY" on your photocpy in big letters (very same way any legal department puts "copy" stamp on any photocopy).


But yes, for international flights, you always need real GC. If you loose GC abroad and your passport stamping is expired, still photocopy is not going to work at POE. You need to go to nearest US consulate (with police report) and obtain an entry-permit.

 

[pralay]

True ..... One name prominently comes to mind John Gilmore -- a very prominent Civil Libertarian ..... he's suing the the attny General and the federal agencies --- he's claiming that having to show a photo ID before boarding a flight is infringing on his constitutional rights !!!

I don't know much it will hold - considering the fact that boarding a flight is privilege, not right.

 

[pralay]

curiousGeorge,
You have a point... A non-USC can courageously answer that he/she is a citizen and can get away. A BIG SECUIRTY HOLE.

Yes, that's a possibility. But if you are caught, you will go to jail. So the punishment of lying to a law enforcement officer is far greater than punishment of failure to show GC. It worths only when you illegal immigrant. As you are a legal resident, it simply does not worth to take that kind of risk.

 

[peace_of_mind]

Pralay,
My point is..., The security is at stake...,
no offence..., please use he/she as a third person... and not as you and I as first person, this is a general discussion...

 

[pralay]

Pralay,
My point is..., The security is at stake...,
no offence..., please use he/she as a third person... and not as you and I as first person, this is a general discussion...

I don't take offence. But it seems you did because I used "you". But your point is very silly. Using "you" or "I" does not stop general discussion. Here "you" does not point to you the peace_in_mind but anyone who is non-citizen. But If you are so protective and take offence so soon, probably it does not make sense to have general discussion.

And, about security, let me quote from Benjamin Franklin

"He who gives up liberty for security will end up with neither liberty nor security."

 

[140_takes_4ever]

quote from Benjamin Franklin
"He who gives up liberty for security will end up with neither liberty nor security."

Don't know what it is about that saying but I just LOVE it! This is my stock reply when a neo-con spouts the Bush administration BS about security. Now that is a completely different story.

 

[max2k1]

I don't know much it will hold - considering the fact that boarding a flight is privilege, not right.

I know ... but Gilmore is very creative ....

his argument is that not allowing him to board a plane, would violate his 1st amendment rights and other things !!
See this link

Makes for a nice Friday diversion

 

[becky]

hmmm .... becky did your husband have to anything to prove he was a USC ?

No, he said he was and they completely ignored him after that, although I wonder whether some of the politeness that they showed towards me came from the fact that a voter was present.

becky

 

[becky]

On a side note, I did visit Carlsbad Caverns a couple of years ago and it was spectacular. New Mexico definitely has some of the best sunsets and sun rises in the world not to mention best scenary, and that time I wasn't stopped by Border Patrol so it was even more pleasurable.

Sorry for all these updates. I've been without Internet access for the last few days, it's a strange and bleak world ;-)

So, after visiting White Sands NM I went to Carlsbad Caverns. Awesome. Loved those bats. But, driving from Roswell (odd) to El Paso (Carlsbad is inbetween) there were no border patrols. Instead the one I met was on a US Route between Las Cruces and Alamagordo.

becky

 

[140_takes_4ever]

I drove from Santa Fe to Roswell at about 7:00 pm, it had just become dark, and the road was completely deserted. We drove for about 4 hours without passing a single car on the road. It was scary. No wonder they see UFO's all the time on those roads. People are so jumpy that any light they see is probably misinterpreted.

On the lighter side, I asked this girl working in a restaurant in Roswell about the best location to see UFO's, her reply was, "Outside a bar after a couple of quick drinks!"

 

[pralay]

I drove from Santa Fe to Roswell at about 7:00 pm, it had just become dark, and the road was completely deserted. We drove for about 4 hours without passing a single car on the road. It was scary. No wonder they see UFO's all the time on those roads.

How about stopping car on middle of the highway and take some pictures?

I never visited Santa Fe-Roswell. But in my experience some of loneliest highways:

US-50: Fallon, NV to Austin, NV
US-89: North from Flagstaff, AZ to UT
CA-178: US-395 junction to Death Valley
Montana-212: Cooke City to Red Lodge