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USA is worth to go or no

In comparison, many places in Florida are quite cheap and there is no state income tax. However, property taxes are quite high I am being told and sales tax can vary from area to area...yep, we witnessed in first hand in (I believe it was) Fort Lauderdale..where one pharmacy had a different sales tax to the one one or two blocks away! (the price tags on the shelf did not even include nor display the sales tax...surprise at the cashier!)

Property taxes in California are just over 1% of purchase price with little relief (I believe you get a whole $7k off of the purchase price, big deal!). So if you buy an $800,000 house, which won't be palatial in good areas of the bigger cities, you'll be paying over $8k in property tax every year. Florida has homesteader's exemptions for those of us living here permanently. And an $800k house would be palatial. You could buy in the $300k range and get a very nice house. Property taxes are based on more realistic things, like assessed value, not purchase price, and other amenities like whether you're on a canal or other nicety. Our property tax bill is about $2.5k this year but next year with the homesteader discount it'll be much less. Also, your property is protected from creditors in Florida.

California also has city and county-specific sales taxes and are higher overall - at least 8% in the major cities, whereas Florida's is around 6%. Higher gas prices in California too. But yes, it is a fantastic state. So much in one state.

There is good reason why people are moving out of California, especially business owners. It's not sensationalized. It's real. It's just not business friendly, and not just tax-wise. I hear that from my Californian business-owner friends all the time.
 
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Hi Vichel...thanks for the added info. Wow...you see, the 1% based on purchase price is not only completely insane, it is unbelievably UNFAIR! Someone who bought the same house for $200k years ago would only pay $2k in property tax, while the new neighbor who just bought this upper fixer for $800k that looks like a shed compared to the other, would have to pay $8k !! ????

The way you mention the basis for property tax calculations for Florida, reminds me of how it's done in Australia.

I think it's really sad that these extreme differences in taxes of all kinds are pushing people into making decisions as to which state to move to! Only when the tipping point is reached, i.e. too many people and their businesses have moved for greener pastures, would the politicians come to their senses and realize that high taxes are not the answer to fixing budget holes. Lower taxes create an environment that acts like a magnet for entrepreneurs and business creation.

As for Florida, a friend of mine lives in a great condo in Aventura, Miami and he says he's paying $800 per month in property taxes and maintenance fees combined (not sure the ratio, though).

It looks like you are already living in Florida...may I ask you what made you pick this state? Was it the very thing we are discussing (lower/less taxes and cost of housing)? How do you cope with the steamy heat?

My wife and I toured Florida last year for 15 days ... I loved it - we actually refreshed our memories from previous visits back in the mid 1990's (you can now guess our age...lol). However, I have to say that it was probably a perfect time of the year to visit...and not because the weather in EU is crap but because I think Florida's weather can be quite stressful with the high humidity and heat, too! Even towards the end of our trip (December!) it was actually getting a bit uncomfortable due to humidity built up.
And we have already lived in a hot place that gets humid...we lived in Brisbane, Australia for over 7 years until not too long ago and loved it but to be honest, summers (Nov to May) can be really unbearable, too ... not having air/con at home didn't help!
 
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(Some elder people who are "settled" in their lives don't want the stress of packing up and moving and starting over however if they have young children or teenagers then they do consider it for their sake. )

Hi all, I am a newcomer in this forum. The above statement is so me. Now,I am so desperately wish to enter DV 2015 (if this program still exist???). Does anyone knows the update/progress for dv 2015 will be continue?? thanks
 
Yeah, I've done some extensive research over the past few weeks (on & off), and that is partly due to my interest in real estate markets. I have to say that it appears housing (to buy and to rent) in the type of areas I would consider desirable in L.A. for example (modern, safe, quiet, nice outlook, either close to ocean or the hills) are similar in price to what you would pay in other expensive parts of the world. Or in other words...it takes a minimum of $500k for a tiny condo/apartment that is not even that modern or >$1Mio for anything larger. I could not imagine living right in the middle or in far away suburbs of the jungle of L.A. which my friend calls an "ant hill" (she considers SF to also be an ant hill - lol).

I think I should look into the concept of feng shui, as I seem to be quite sensitive to certain things when it comes to feeling at ease in a place...I've never pursued this concept but maybe I should.

On the topic of California - I am wondering why apparently many business owners (and people in general) seem to be leaving the state for their high taxes! (apparently many moving to Texas, unless that is just media hype and smart marketing tactics)

This whole topic of taxes and health insurance etc is something that preoccupies my mind! Especially since I can instantly compare to living in Australia!
You see, I expect to be self-employed by the time we moved to the States...but there are a few things that I feel are not very business friendly or fair in the USA. For instance, there is this self-employment tax (15.3% on the first $113700 of net income). This is the same as social security and medicare tax for those on salaries (where the employer would pay half). The insanity I think is that while you are trying to build up an income stream, they squeeze this out of your income, while I think I would not even see any benefits myself in case something happened (not unless we'd somehow lost our last shirt!). There is a 2.9% medicare tax contained in that 15.3%, while my understanding is that this does not give us any direct benefits, either ... as it's solely designed to help those aged 65 and over, and the disabled. Yet, we'd have to pay for a separate private health insurance on top of that to even have health cover!
Then there is state income tax (in places like California) plus federal income tax. Not even considering sales taxes and property taxes, which seem to be higher than in other states.

What I am saying is this: While I can imagine that living in California (the "dream" state) can be a real lifestyle (once you half way made it), there seem to be many obstacles, apart from high property prices.

In comparison, many places in Florida are quite cheap and there is no state income tax. However, property taxes are quite high I am being told and sales tax can vary from area to area...yep, we witnessed in first hand in (I believe it was) Fort Lauderdale..where one pharmacy had a different sales tax to the one one or two blocks away! (the price tags on the shelf did not even include nor display the sales tax...surprise at the cashier!)


The Fort Lauderdale tax thing was the Broward County/Dade County border. Fro memory I think Dade charges 7% and Broward charges 6%. For that reason I always bought cars and expensive things in Broward...

Edit: Just found the tax rates for Florida
http://miami.about.com/od/governmentcityservices/a/salestax.htm

Property taxes are insane in some places. Even with homestead exemption it can be thousands of dollars for a house. I am looking at houses in California and I am facing paying nearly $1000 PER MONTH in property tax. It's like paying another mortgage!

Florida and California are the two states I have spent the most time in. CA has it for me in terms of a "real" lifestyle. Florida is fabulous but it can be a bit "plastic/fake". Florida is much cheaper though, and salaries reflect the difference.

About being in business in the US, it pays you to incorporate your business in a business friendly state, such as Delaware or Nevada. Florida is good too. You don't have to trade there you just have a company that handles your business presence there. It is worth it.

There are lots of ways to look at Business friendly, so it is a topic you can google, but with differing opinions...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2013/03/31/the-most-and-least-business-friendly-states/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/07/09/cnbc-top-states-business/2502817/
 
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(Some elder people who are "settled" in their lives don't want the stress of packing up and moving and starting over however if they have young children or teenagers then they do consider it for their sake. )

Hi all, I am a newcomer in this forum. The above statement is so me. Now,I am so desperately wish to enter DV 2015 (if this program still exist???). Does anyone knows the update/progress for dv 2015 will be continue?? thanks

DV2015 will go ahead. Should be announced soon.
 
Interesting stuff you guys have put and it really puts things into perspective.

I'm considering Florida or Texas as the houses are pretty reasonable in both places.

As for where specifically I'm looking at Orlando suburbs (Sanford, Heathrow, Lake Mary, Altamonte Springs etc.) where I'd live but work wise it'd have to be someplace commercial especially if I'm considering a business venture.

Dallas I'd be looking at living in the suburbs too (Frisco, McKinney etc.) to be in range of the city and again I'd probably looking at a business venture in the city (rented premises of course).

I need some education on this property tax and insurance from my friends who are already in the USA or have properties there (britsimon I believe you have properties there).

I am looking at a home in Frisco, TX at a value of $314,900 with monthly property taxes being shown as $499.17 and monthly home insurance being $85.

If I pay a downpayment of $100,000 I have to pay $214,900. Assuming I take out a mortgage on the home over 30 years I would be paying approximately $850 to $950 per month. Now I presume I'm adding the $499.17 property tax and $85 insurance

Therefore this equates to $950 + $499.17 + $85 = $1535 (approximately). Is this correct? This sounds very reasonable to me considering rents in Tanzania are much more higher than this! Practically I could have a decent life for $5,000 per month if I'm not mistaken.

A three bedroom home in a good area in Tanzania (Dar es Salaam) would not be less than $5,000 per month and an apartment would be around $2,000. Real estate prices here are unbelievably stupid and unrealistic.

Supposing I opt to pay the home insurance and property tax on a yearly basis? Is this possible?

Also if I were to buy the property outright and no mortgage (which is my plan), would I simply be looking at paying $499.17 + $85 = $600 approximately per month?

All feedback is welcome and highly appreciated :)




I'm considering Dallas because from my research Florida is more retirement community based and tourist-y. Also Texas has a big oil and gas boom going on at the moment along with all the major corporations being headquartered there, and a business venture there is promising (I'm considering either real estate in the form of single bedroom apartments near universities for rental income or a small printing venture).

Logistically it is very ideal because the DFW Airport is nearby and there are direct flights to and from Dubai which means I could hop on a plane and be in Tanzania the next day (flying through Europe is too expensive).



Case No - DV2013AF0007XXXX (applied the first time and got it the first time - lucky me!)
Entry Checked - 1st May 2012
Forms Sent To KCC - 10th May 2012
Received By KCC - 12th May 2012
Confirmation From KCC - 25th May 2012 after I sent them an email
2nd NL - 14th June 2013
Police Clearance (TZ) - 13th June 2013
Police Clearance (UK) - 21st June 2013
Medicals - Completed 24th June 2013
I-134 - 16th July 2013
Bank Statements - 22nd July 2013
Interview - Wednesday, August 7th 2013 @ 8am - US Embassy Tanzania
Visa Pick up - Hopefully August 11th 2013
Departure Date - August 17th 2013
Port of Entry - Washington Dulles
 
Your calculations are correct. Typically, people pay mortgage, taxes and mortgage insurance or property insurance on a monthly basis as you describe. People pay into a mortgage escrow account and thereby spread the costs.

On my properties I simply pay the property tax bill once a year (paid annually in advance). I think the bills come out around November and I get a small discount for paying early which seems pretty standard.

You can use some of the links in this thread to check out your calculations. I would say $5000 net pay would be enough if you had no mortgage. However, your expenses tend to expand to your available income (and there are lots of companies in America who will help you with that process). So - $5k will be a good start when you arrive but you will soon find yourself with higher "needs"... money seems to evaporate in the USA...

http://www.city-data.com/city/Frisco-Texas.html

http://www.areavibes.com/frisco-tx/livability/

I suggest using one of the salary net pay calculators to work back to see what gross income you need to take home $5k and then compare that income with local averages, jobs in the area and so on. I'm sure you will be able to live well - your profession and net worth will put you into the privileged middle class - and that equates to a nice lifestyle in the States.
 
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I would say $5000 net pay would be enough if you had no mortgage. However, your expenses tend to expand to your available income (and there are lots of companies in America who will help you with that process). So - $5k will be a good start when you arrive but you will soon find yourself with higher "needs"... money seems to evaporate in the USA...

[...] $5k [...] will put you into the privileged middle class - and that equates to a nice lifestyle in the States.


Whoa...you really think that you need $5,000 net income plus a house fully paid for, in order to have a "good start"..?
In Momo's case that means $6,500 net in case he 'only' puts down $100k to buy a house on a mortgage?

What exactly are the things that consume so much money?
 
Whoa...you really think that you need $5,000 net income plus a house fully paid for, in order to have a "good start"..?
In Momo's case that means $6,500 net in case he 'only' puts down $100k to buy a house on a mortgage?

What exactly are the things that consume so much money?


OnTheGo - I'm planning to buy my home outright i.e. no mortgage plus even if I don't work in the USA I still have my income from Tanzania coming in and I'll be doing some trading i.e. buying in the USA and selling in Tanzania and also bidding for Tanzania government contracts as a foreign supplier.

Americans themselves have told me without a mortgage I'd be very comfortable with $5,000 per month because my home insurance and property tax would be paid yearly which is peanuts in the grand scheme of things and my car repayments would be $400 max per month.

Then I'd have utilities and considering I'm still single the whole house wouldn't be used unless I had a family or my parents were visiting so I don't think utilities would be exorbitant either. I'm also planning to take cooking classes so again I save money by having to go out less to eat.

If I did choose to work then I'd start from the ground up to understand the US printing industry as it is very different from Tanzania. Granted I have a lot of experience but starting from the bottom is my choice and I'd rather work my way up so I'd be looking at $2,500 net per month salary to start with + my Tanzania income of $5,000 per month plus any extra money I make from trading (say $2,500 per month) so I'd be probably (just a guesstimate) taking home after taxes about $7,000 per month which is pretty okay if you ask me.

If I chose the real estate investment route by purchasing apartments then let us assume the gross income is $1,000 per apartment and multiplied by 20 apartments is $20,000 per month so after taxes I'd walk out with I'm guessing $12,000 to $15,000 net. Still a very decent income...

Again I'm only guesstimating and this is all theory so I'd only have a true picture once I'm there and doing the feasibility study with all the figures at hand.


Case No - DV2013AF0007XXXX (applied the first time and got it the first time - lucky me!)
Entry Checked - 1st May 2012
Forms Sent To KCC - 10th May 2012
Received By KCC - 12th May 2012
Confirmation From KCC - 25th May 2012 after I sent them an email
2nd NL - 14th June 2013
Police Clearance (TZ) - 13th June 2013
Police Clearance (UK) - 21st June 2013
Medicals - Completed 24th June 2013
I-134 - 16th July 2013
Bank Statements - 22nd July 2013
Interview - Wednesday, August 7th 2013 @ 8am - US Embassy Tanzania
Visa Pick up - Hopefully August 11th 2013
Departure Date - August 17th 2013
Port of Entry - Washington Dulles
 
Whoa...you really think that you need $5,000 net income plus a house fully paid for, in order to have a "good start"..?
In Momo's case that means $6,500 net in case he 'only' puts down $100k to buy a house on a mortgage?

What exactly are the things that consume so much money?

Well I had Momo in mind when I typed that. He has a comfortable life right now, why would he move to another country to live poorly. Everyone will have their own standard of living that they will accept – and for many a “good start” will work with less than $5k.

However to give you a few things to think about....

As Momo mentioned he will pay at least $600 for the house even without a mortgage payment.

Then he will want a nice car in the garage. You can lease cars for $200 but a “nice life” might mean $500/$600 per month on a lease (plus the lease deposit every two or three years). Car insurance will cost around $200 per month. Gas, servicing, tyres, tolls and so on will cost $300 – 1000 per month.

Health insurance (if not fully paid by employer) could cost around $600/month for a single person.

Utilities costs will be around $500 per month

Cable TV and cellphone could add $100 - $200.

Food and necessities will cost $1000/month/person.

Want to eat when you retire? Better be putting $1000 per month away in a pension (depends on age, but $1000 isn't high).

Miscellaneous expenses like the washing machine breaks, or you “need” to replace the TV - $500 per month.


Entertainment costs vary obviously but to get an idea…
Wanna go out for a meal – well you can eat for $10 per head but just as easily spend $100 per head.
Wanna take the future Mrs Momo to the movies - $50.
Couple of drinks before the movie - $20 (and then $5 tip)
Wanna go watch a baseball game – reckon on $100 - $200 per head (for a game).
A little retail therapy on stuff you don’t really need - $500 per month.

So it all adds up. I remember when I left the States to move back to Europe I calculated my average month expenses at around $10k. My brother is spending around $17k per month (although health insurance is a large chunk of that since he is self employed). OBVIOUSLY he is living an unusual lifestyle, but you would be amazed – money really does evaporate there…
 
I'd be looking at $2,500 net per month salary to start with + my Tanzania income of $5,000 per month plus any extra money I make from trading (say $2,500 per month) so I'd be probably (just a guesstimate) taking home after taxes about $7,000 per month which is pretty okay if you ask me.

If I chose the real estate investment route by purchasing apartments then let us assume the gross income is $1,000 per apartment and multiplied by 20 apartments is $20,000 per month so after taxes I'd walk out with I'm guessing $12,000 to $15,000 net. Still a very decent income...


Sounds like you have some nice income stream going already, plus lots of cash :). Just beware of the US tax requirements with regard to declaring your worldwide income, i.e. even though your Tanzania income gets taxed there, you are required to declare that gross income in your US tax dec again. While they will give credit for tax already paid on your Tanzania sourced income, depending on how that compares to what would be due on the same amount in the US, you might still have to pay extra income tax and/or Social Security tax (?) (at 15.3%). I have read one aspect of income taxation from foreign sourced income, where you would be required to pay some extra income tax in the US, solely based on the fact that the forex rate pushed the foreign income into a higher tax bracket in the US.
 
Sounds like you have some nice income stream going already, plus lots of cash :). Just beware of the US tax requirements with regard to declaring your worldwide income, i.e. even though your Tanzania income gets taxed there, you are required to declare that gross income in your US tax dec again. While they will give credit for tax already paid on your Tanzania sourced income, depending on how that compares to what would be due on the same amount in the US, you might still have to pay extra income tax and/or Social Security tax (?) (at 15.3%). I have read one aspect of income taxation from foreign sourced income, where you would be required to pay some extra income tax in the US, solely based on the fact that the forex rate pushed the foreign income into a higher tax bracket in the US.


To quote from the George of the Jungle movie - "Momo just lucky I guess" lol

I'm actually going to meet a tax consultant once I reach the US and settle in because I want to set up my finances and tax payments properly and ensure the IRS doesn't bug my life for anything I overlook.

But yes it is a BIG stress factor off my mind that I don't have to worry about finances.



Case No - DV2013AF0007XXXX (applied the first time and got it the first time - lucky me!)
Entry Checked - 1st May 2012
Forms Sent To KCC - 10th May 2012
Received By KCC - 12th May 2012
Confirmation From KCC - 25th May 2012 after I sent them an email
2nd NL - 14th June 2013
Police Clearance (TZ) - 13th June 2013
Police Clearance (UK) - 21st June 2013
Medicals - Completed 24th June 2013
I-134 - 16th July 2013
Bank Statements - 22nd July 2013
Interview - Wednesday, August 7th 2013 @ 8am - US Embassy Tanzania
Visa Pick up - Hopefully August 11th 2013
Departure Date - August 17th 2013
Port of Entry - Washington Dulles
 
To quote from the George of the Jungle movie - "Momo just lucky I guess" lol

I'm actually going to meet a tax consultant once I reach the US and settle in because I want to set up my finances and tax payments properly and ensure the IRS doesn't bug my life for anything I overlook.

But yes it is a BIG stress factor off my mind that I don't have to worry about finances.



Case No - DV2013AF0007XXXX (applied the first time and got it the first time - lucky me!)
Entry Checked - 1st May 2012
Forms Sent To KCC - 10th May 2012
Received By KCC - 12th May 2012
Confirmation From KCC - 25th May 2012 after I sent them an email
2nd NL - 14th June 2013
Police Clearance (TZ) - 13th June 2013
Police Clearance (UK) - 21st June 2013
Medicals - Completed 24th June 2013
I-134 - 16th July 2013
Bank Statements - 22nd July 2013
Interview - Wednesday, August 7th 2013 @ 8am - US Embassy Tanzania
Visa Pick up - Hopefully August 11th 2013
Departure Date - August 17th 2013
Port of Entry - Washington Dulles

Momo, I'm interested to hear what your tax consultant says. The whole starting balances thing is an issue for me. I am leaving assets in the UK and Europe and those things have been purchased with tax paid money. I need to know how to account for profits later and whether there is something I should do before I emigrate to avoid paying an unfair amount of tax later. I'd be interested in sharing experiences later...

Incidentally, I think in general US tax rates are lower than the UK, and the UK and Spain (the other place I have assets/income) has a tax treaty with the US - so that might make things different for you and I.
 
Car insurance will cost around $200 per month. Gas, servicing, tyres, tolls and so on will cost $300 – 1000 per month.
Health insurance (if not fully paid by employer) could cost around $600/month for a single person.
Utilities costs will be around $500 per month
Cable TV and cellphone could add $100 - $200.
Food and necessities will cost $1000/month/person.
Want to eat when you retire? Better be putting $1000 per month away in a pension (depends on age, but $1000 isn't high).
Miscellaneous expenses like the washing machine breaks, or you “need” to replace the TV - $500 per month.
So it all adds up. I remember when I left the States to move back to Europe I calculated my average month expenses at around $10k. My brother is spending around $17k per month (although health insurance is a large chunk of that since he is self employed). OBVIOUSLY he is living an unusual lifestyle, but you would be amazed – money really does evaporate there…


Some of these things you list do sound like crazy amounts, for anyone starting out that is (and perhaps for most other people, too) ...sorry, but I had to compare with our previous life in Australia:

Utilities $500 per month? (Is this mainly electricity? How much is the kWh in the US? In AUS, we used to pay less than $100 per month in electricity, despite crazy skyrocketing prices (thanks to dumb privatization)...as we had relatively low consumption, because we had solar hot water and gas cooking and NO air con! ; water was relatively cheap...perhaps a few hundred $$ for the whole year...but then again, in Australia people are used to conserving water more)

Health insurance $600/single person? (that means even more for a married couple? That IS insane, given that I would intend to move to the states, starting out self-employed...who could afford to start out if health insurance alone is such a burden already right from start? Even with high deductibles!!)

Food and necessities....$1k/person? (I know that we spent max $500 per month for the two of us on grocery, and that is DESPITE extremely high grocery prices and we did a lot of home cooking...it's my hobby, which is why I had gas cooking installed ;) We actually NEVER bought any veggies/fruit at the grocery chains...as they charge 3x of what is even fresher and more natural at the markets!
BTW...I always thought Woolworths and Coles in Australia (the main two players until Aldi arrived in 2001) were EXTREMELY expensive, compared to what grocery costs in Germany) ... until we were visiting Florida last year....it appeared the predominant player is PUBLIX and boy, that is an expensive grocery chain! Not that much difference to Aussie grocery shops! Thankfully, we found alternatives like Walmart, Presidente and Aldi (but you really had to look out for them...they don't seem to be in most areas).
So I guess if we were not actively checking prices and buy at different stores consciously, it might even be "easy" to spend that much as you quoted...just on food alone.

Re: Your brother's spending budget and the 'large chunk' of it for health cover....may I ask why his health cover would cost $$Thousands per month?

I am really worried about the prospect of high costs when it comes to starting out in the US, mainly due to insane costs associated with health insurance and what I feel is a high mandatory Social Security and Medicare Taxes (a.k.a. 'self employment tax' in that case) of 15.3% right from the first dollar. The craziest thing I think is, that while someone starting out self-employed is required to pay the full tax rate, they are unlikely to get any benefits themselves because let's face it...who starts out self-employed in the US without some savings as a back up? So it would be a matter of 'spend your savings' before you ever became eligible for help (if there is such a thing). The 2.9% part of the 15.3% tax is medicare tax ... yet it doesn't even provide me or my wife with any cover, as only people aged 65 and over and the disabled (I believe) are eligible. So effectively, up to around the $120,000 income level, everybody has to pay these social contributions (in addition to state and federal income taxes), yet the sole beneficiaries are those on no income, those with no savings and the elderly?? I think that's really an unfair system.

It's not that we have no savings...quite the opposite. You see, I could easily buy a house (or two) in Florida in cash (however, our life savings would go into them). In AUS we were both on real average salaries, we have no kids and we kept our spending minimal (yes, I'd say we lived a rather frugal life for a number of years, as rents for nicer properties are EXTREMELY high in Australian capital cities and beyond!)...we preferred to build up assets first. We did reasonably well with real estate investment and I am glad about that (despite no profit and lots of hassles with two properties).

But I have a sense of the USA being a better place to live "once you had your income breakthrough" ... yet it is a bit of a scary place to "start out at" due to the high cost of initial taxation requirements and health costs!

(ex. Australia not only has a universal health care system where it costs 1.5 to 3% currently of anyone's taxable income to be insured, it also continues to provide this cover if you are unemployed with no requirement to pay contributions -- but they also increased the annual tax free threshold from $6,000 to now $18,200! ... these are the things that I think make it so much easier for people starting out to have some peace of mind and much less STRESS about SURVIVAL! The downside is that everything costs so much more in Australia in terms of consumables...there is even a 'luxury car tax' ... stupid socialist idea...where by any car costing more than around $80k or so, attracts a 33% tax!...that alone cannot be the reason why often the same car costs 2 to 3 times of what it costs in the US!! Ex: 2013 Porsche 911 = USA price = $80,000 / AUS price = $206,000 to $287,000! --- now THAT is crazy!
 
Here's a very good article on purchasing health insurance. Read the comments too because they contain valuable insights from others:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/11/01/our-new-237-per-month-health-insurance-plan/

Even if you disagree with the author's decision, it's got a lot of helpful info.

Yeah, some of those costs above are on the high side, imo. Everyone's wants and needs are different though so it's hard to define. We tend to be on the frugal side.

Some of our costs so far (for two people plus dog):

Water $138 for June (higher than it should be due to a leak in the pool, plus power-washing outside)

Electricity $152 for June. A/C is set to 82 during day, 80 at night. It will be lower in the winter.
No gas here unfortunately :-(

Cell phones $60 and $30 per month.
The $60/mo gives you 2.5G of data at 4G, unlimited text and calls. The $30 is a basic plan, no data.

House insurance with hurricane coverage $2,030/yr. (Compared to our CA house insurance: $1570/yr + $640/yr earthquake insurance.)

One paid-off 2012 SUV, insured for $918.
Initial registration, inspection and new plate was almost $400 but registration after this will be about $60/yr.

High-speed unlimited Internet and the basic channel pkg for TV is $65/month. No landline.

Groceries $800/month - I watch the specials and we eat on the healthier side, so very minimal junk, snack, sweet or processed foods. We eat at home mostly and we eat very well.

About $120/month on liquor (my favourite Aussie Shiraz here is $9 vs. $16 in Oz!)

About $100-$150/month on restaurant meals, eating out 2 to 3 times per month. We don't eat in expensive restaurants.

Gas here is about $3.50/gallon.

Lawn maintenance: $70/month

Pool maintenance: $80/month (we'll be doing it ourselves soon)

Pest control of the outside is about $20/month (this is fire-ant country!).

We have found the US to be cheaper than Australia for a lot of things. We still have our house in Australia and our tenants' electricity bills are in the $220/month range ($260 in summer), plus about $60 for gas (hot water & cooking). Food costs are ridiculous in Australia and restaurant meals even more ludicrous, especially in Perth where they're charging $10+ for a pint, and $25+ for a pub steak.
 
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Some of these things you list do sound like crazy amounts, for anyone starting out that is (and perhaps for most other people, too) ...sorry, but I had to compare with our previous life in Australia:

Utilities $500 per month? (Is this mainly electricity? How much is the kWh in the US? In AUS, we used to pay less than $100 per month in electricity, despite crazy skyrocketing prices (thanks to dumb privatization)...as we had relatively low consumption, because we had solar hot water and gas cooking and NO air con! ; water was relatively cheap...perhaps a few hundred $$ for the whole year...but then again, in Australia people are used to conserving water more)

Health insurance $600/single person? (that means even more for a married couple? That IS insane, given that I would intend to move to the states, starting out self-employed...who could afford to start out if health insurance alone is such a burden already right from start? Even with high deductibles!!)

Food and necessities....$1k/person? (I know that we spent max $500 per month for the two of us on grocery, and that is DESPITE extremely high grocery prices and we did a lot of home cooking...it's my hobby, which is why I had gas cooking installed ;) We actually NEVER bought any veggies/fruit at the grocery chains...as they charge 3x of what is even fresher and more natural at the markets!
BTW...I always thought Woolworths and Coles in Australia (the main two players until Aldi arrived in 2001) were EXTREMELY expensive, compared to what grocery costs in Germany) ... until we were visiting Florida last year....it appeared the predominant player is PUBLIX and boy, that is an expensive grocery chain! Not that much difference to Aussie grocery shops! Thankfully, we found alternatives like Walmart, Presidente and Aldi (but you really had to look out for them...they don't seem to be in most areas).
So I guess if we were not actively checking prices and buy at different stores consciously, it might even be "easy" to spend that much as you quoted...just on food alone.

Re: Your brother's spending budget and the 'large chunk' of it for health cover....may I ask why his health cover would cost $$Thousands per month?

I am really worried about the prospect of high costs when it comes to starting out in the US, mainly due to insane costs associated with health insurance and what I feel is a high mandatory Social Security and Medicare Taxes (a.k.a. 'self employment tax' in that case) of 15.3% right from the first dollar. The craziest thing I think is, that while someone starting out self-employed is required to pay the full tax rate, they are unlikely to get any benefits themselves because let's face it...who starts out self-employed in the US without some savings as a back up? So it would be a matter of 'spend your savings' before you ever became eligible for help (if there is such a thing). The 2.9% part of the 15.3% tax is medicare tax ... yet it doesn't even provide me or my wife with any cover, as only people aged 65 and over and the disabled (I believe) are eligible. So effectively, up to around the $120,000 income level, everybody has to pay these social contributions (in addition to state and federal income taxes), yet the sole beneficiaries are those on no income, those with no savings and the elderly?? I think that's really an unfair system.

It's not that we have no savings...quite the opposite. You see, I could easily buy a house (or two) in Florida in cash (however, our life savings would go into them). In AUS we were both on real average salaries, we have no kids and we kept our spending minimal (yes, I'd say we lived a rather frugal life for a number of years, as rents for nicer properties are EXTREMELY high in Australian capital cities and beyond!)...we preferred to build up assets first. We did reasonably well with real estate investment and I am glad about that (despite no profit and lots of hassles with two properties).

But I have a sense of the USA being a better place to live "once you had your income breakthrough" ... yet it is a bit of a scary place to "start out at" due to the high cost of initial taxation requirements and health costs!

(ex. Australia not only has a universal health care system where it costs 1.5 to 3% currently of anyone's taxable income to be insured, it also continues to provide this cover if you are unemployed with no requirement to pay contributions -- but they also increased the annual tax free threshold from $6,000 to now $18,200! ... these are the things that I think make it so much easier for people starting out to have some peace of mind and much less STRESS about SURVIVAL! The downside is that everything costs so much more in Australia in terms of consumables...there is even a 'luxury car tax' ... stupid socialist idea...where by any car costing more than around $80k or so, attracts a 33% tax!...that alone cannot be the reason why often the same car costs 2 to 3 times of what it costs in the US!! Ex: 2013 Porsche 911 = USA price = $80,000 / AUS price = $206,000 to $287,000! --- now THAT is crazy!

Without a doubt there are plenty of people that don’t have $5k a month to live on – nothing like that, and they get by. You have an income and, you cut your cloth accordingly. However let me answer some of the numbers.

Firstly let me say again I was referring to the costs associated with a single family home (detached house as we say in the UK). My house in the UK is about 2500 square foot – big by UK standards, average for single family homes in Florida and Texas. My brothers house is 5000 square feet – big by most peoples standards although a friend of mine has a house in Central Florida of 25000 square feet – so it depends on your perspective. Anyway, the bigger the house the more it will cost.

Re utilities, yes electric is a big slice of that. A house in an area where you need AC all year round (like Florida) will cost $200/300 on the hottest months. If you have a pool that will have costs. Gas will be another expense and then there are water/waste utilities. If you live in planned community you will have community charges and if you live in a condo you may have HOA fees. One of my houses (a three bed house/condo of 1500 square feet) incurs HOA fees if around $350 per month. That covers things like trash pickup etc.

Healthcare is expensive which is why 30 million people in the States have no health coverage. The Obamacare plan introduces a basic coverage for a few hundred bucks, but the insured is responsible for co pays and has to stay in network. Once you start getting to flexible plans that let you choose the healthcare provider and get cover while in other states, then premiums can be expensive. A family plan with good/excellent cover could cost thousands. Of course not everyone can afford that so most people compromise with what they can afford…

Food, yeah I was thinking shopping at Publix. I’m sure if you shop around and cut coupons etc you can save a lot of money, but again, if you can afford it, you do it. America is like that – if you have the money you have someone wash your car, someone does your gardening and someone else looks after your pool. If you don’t have much money you can do all those things yourself.

Re my brother he is paying for “platinum” type plans for the whole family that allow him full peace of mind and flexibility. He can afford it so his expenses swell to meet his budget.

Re your thoughts about having to pay for medicare etc without being able to draw on it – well yeah – that is exactly what happens – and personally I am ok with that. Most people in the UK get more from the state than they pay in via taxes. There are surprisingly few people who actually pay more in to the system than they get out. My political leanings are what Americans would call “fiscally conservative and socially responsible”. That means I want to be able to make a load of money, BUT I am happy to pay in to the safety net for others less fortunate than myself. That is kind of what would happen in the scenario you describe… so yeah it might seem unfair to you (and many people would agree with you), but I think it’s ok.
 
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