US Citizenship vs Greencard

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travelchick747

Registered Users (C)
I am toggling whether or not I want to get my US Citizenship because except for cost, I do not see a benefit. I have a green card now.

- I don't vote
- I have no kids
- I don't want to serve on a jury (I travel a lot/work contract)
- I don't plan on doing any criminal acts which may deport me.

Is there a benefit to becoming a US Citizen that I am just not seeing? My interview is coming up and now I'm reconsidering my options.
 
Do you think you could benefit from a US passport? That's often a reason. Visa-free access. Also, if you think you'll ever want to stay out of the country for a couple of years, citizenship just makes that hassle-free. How about federal jobs? It all contributes.
 
It depends on the benefits you receive from your current country of citizenship, where your affinity lies, your income/tax situation, and when you want to be long term. If you can answer these questions then you can decide for yourself.
 
- I don't want to serve on a jury (I travel a lot/work contract)

If you travel a lot overseas, then the risk of physically losing green card will increase (your wallet can be stolen), it is much
easier to seek help from embassy when losing a passport than when losing a GC.

- I don't plan on doing any criminal acts which may deport me.


Many people run into this kind of trouble without planning. You can be wrongly acused of shoplifing
if you unintentionally frgot to pay an item in yoru shopping cart
 
travelchick747 said:
- I don't plan on doing any criminal acts which may deport me.
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However, it is possible to get arrested for a crime you didn't commit.

Suppose you were arrested for something you didn't do, then given 2 options:

(1) Plead guilty to a lesser offense, pay a $3000 fine and no jail time.
(2) Go to trial, if you're found guilty you get 3 months in jail + deportation.

If you're a citizen, the deportation can't happen, so you can more confidently take the chance and defend yourself in a trial. But if you're a green card holder, the prospect of being found guilty is much more severe so it becomes much scarier to take the chance of going to trial.
 
Also any conviction related to domestic abuse is deportable. If you get into an altercation with your partner / spouse and he/she decides to call the cops with trumped-up charges, you can be in a big trouble. Anything other than straight dismissal or acquittal is considered as conviction by DHS; even arrangements where you do counseling/community service/probation for a later dismissal are counted as convictions for immigration purpose.
 
Hexa said:
Also any conviction related to domestic abuse is deportable. If you get into an altercation with your partner / spouse and he/she decides to call the cops with trumped-up charges, you can be in a big trouble. Anything other than straight dismissal or acquittal is considered as conviction by DHS; even arrangements where you do counseling/community service/probation for a later dismissal are counted as convictions for immigration purpose.
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That's another good point. A citizen can move on with his/her life after a conviction has been dismissed or expunged; for noncitizens a dismissed/expunged conviction can still be the basis for deportation.
 
Jackolantern said:
However, it is possible to get arrested for a crime you didn't commit.
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It is true. But if people can get regularly arrested and deported for crimes they didn't commit, I guess the OP and we all woudln't want to live in such a country in the first place.

travelchick747 said:
- I don't want to serve on a jury (I travel a lot/work contract)
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Do you have to serve on a jury if you are US citizen and you travel a lot? What-if your address is abroad ... are you going to get any summons then?

To me, the number one reason to get US citizenship is the ability to live anywere on this planet for as long as I want and still be able to freely return to the US to live. One thing against is the citizenship-based taxation and reporting requirements that are growing still.
 
Hannah7 said:
It is true. But if people can get regularly arrested and deported for crimes they didn't commit, I guess the OP and we all woudln't want to live in such a country in the first place.
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Unless his/her original country's legal system is worse, which is the case for MANY countries out there.
 
much heynays

WBH said:
- I don't want to serve on a jury (I travel a lot/work contract)

If you travel a lot overseas, then the risk of physically losing green card will increase (your wallet can be stolen), it is much
easier to seek help from embassy when losing a passport than when losing a GC.

- I don't plan on doing any criminal acts which may deport me.


Many people run into this kind of trouble without planning. You can be wrongly acused of shoplifing
if you unintentionally frgot to pay an item in yoru shopping cart
Click to expand...

I currently have my Canadian Citizenship. The travel I do is for business in the United States and back home to Canada to visit family. You do make a great point about losing my greencard and/or Canadian passport because I too believe that it would be a hassle. Thank you for pointing that out.

My primary concern about getting my US Citizenship, is jury duty. I live in a crime ridden state where I have been called even though I cannot serve. That's how desperate they must be for jurors.

Being called to be on a jury concerns me because I am a 1099 contractor who travels within the US for work and according to the juror website for my county, I would not qualify (under their rules) to be dismissed/disqualified.
For this prime reason, I am thinking out of backing out of getting my citizenship, until I retire. I've paid the dues, my interview is coming up in a few weeks.

However, Dedo had posted something about tax reasons to get my citizenship. Can Dedo or anyone expand on that please?
 
travelchick747 said:
However, Dedo had posted something about tax reasons to get my citizenship. Can Dedo or anyone expand on that please?
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Actually it's mostly a tax disadvantage if you get US citizenship, because US citizenship requires you to file US tax returns even when you're living and working outside the US. That usually doesn't mean paying any US taxes, because of the treaties and exemptions that are available to avoid double taxation, but you still have to file the US returns and claim the exemptions.

The only tax advantage of US citizenship I can think of is that inheritances and certain other asset transfers between spouses can sometimes be taxable unless both spouses are US citizens.

I can see your point that US citizenship isn't much of a benefit for you. Being deported to Canada isn't such a bad thing, so for you the immunity from deportation isn't really a motivating factor. But somebody from Mexico or Iran or Somalia would usually have a lot more to lose if deported.

And as a Canadian citizen you already have visa-free travel to most of the same countries that allow visa-free travel for US citizens, so US citizenship doesn't really help you where travel is concerned.

However you don't have to make up your mind right now; you can wait until the interview and tell the interviewer that you want to withdraw, or you if you haven't made up your mind by the interview you can buy more time by asking for an oath date after the end of December.
 
travelchick747 said:
However, Dedo had posted something about tax reasons to get my citizenship. Can Dedo or anyone expand on that please?
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As a GC holder you are subject to world wide income taxation in the US, but I am sure you already knew that. If you dont like it, you can give up your GC and move. Also, if you have significant assets overseas like property, you will pay federal and state taxes for any gains. An example: An acquaintance who has lived in the US for 25 years, inherited his family's property in Mumbai which is worth $10M. When he sold it, the tax bill to Uncle sam and his home state (US) was $1M, which he did not have, nor could he bring back from the property sale due to annual restrictions on how much you can transfer each year. So to avoid this situation, I suppose can always give up your green card and move back home (if you are so inclined) and then sell the assets. Giving up citizenship and reacquiring it elsewhere is much harder
 
travelchick747 said:
My primary concern about getting my US Citizenship, is jury duty. I live in a crime ridden state where I have been called even though I cannot serve. That's how desperate they must be for jurors.
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REALLY???? This is your main reason? Since you are in a crime ridden state and also a 1099, why not move somewhere safer? Problem solved
 
cafeconleche said:
That's true Wifebeaters out there ought to go for citizenship :/
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Or people married to psychos who don't think twice about leveling false accusations, to get better divorce terms. If you're deported and barred forever from entry, guess who gets possession of all the asset by default?
 
Hexa said:
Or people married to psychos who don't think twice about leveling false accusations, to get better divorce terms. If you're deported and barred forever from entry, guess who gets possession of all the asset by default?
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I don't doubt this is entirely possible.
 
If you own or carry firearms, you better becoem a citizen too. Many Firearm violations are depotrable too
even crminal penalty is just a slap on the wirst
 
Taxation

The income tax in the U.S. is on the edge of legality but we all agree to file it and pay it for the most part, however, I believe that income tax imposed on persons abroad is illegal. Something worth reading:

http://righteousinvestor.com/2011/11/13/is-the-taxation-of-us-citizens-abroad-constitutional/

I wonder how many US citizens who live abroad and are not compliant with the IRS are being prosecuted? Most of the measures enforced by the IRS are unconstitutional.
 
cafeconleche said:
I haven't filed my 2012 non-resident returns... but I will not owe anything, so I'll do it this month or so.
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The question I would ask is. Do you have to file even if you don't owe anything to the government? I will leave it without an answer.

The IRS code says you have to file. There are couple of constitution amendments that give you certain rights, in this case especially the 4th amendment of constitution says:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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I hope the constitution is still superior to the IRS code. I guess one is free to choose what he/she want to follow.
 
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