URGENT - Green Card to be Revoked

Ok. It goes this way here these are the rules. Do provide what we ask you to provide, we take the liberty to verify what you say is true or not.

It doesn't mean these rules can't be changed. Why not saying we have that on you, do you confirm yes or know. This is the same level of trust. They can always do other checks if they think you are lying or if they think at a second time that the information they provided are not that correct, etc...

Their information can be true (likely) or wrong (less likely but possible: eg: someone steals my passport and travels with it. The system showes that I left the country while it's wrong).

I personnaly experienced a change in the tax return system in another country. One year you have to input all your figures, the next year you receive a pre-filled tax return with all the money data they have on you. Up to you to correct it or not.
 
Yes you are right Jackolantern concerning the request for all travel information on the N-400. I read too fast the first line on part 7 that says: "How many total days did you spend outside the United States during the past five years?"

I haven't carefully read line C. Good to remember. Thanks
 
Nestor67 said:
Ok. It goes this way here these are the rules. Do provide what we ask you to provide, we take the liberty to verify what you say is true or not.

It doesn't mean these rules can't be changed. Why not saying we have that on you, do you confirm yes or know. This is the same level of trust. They can always do other checks if they think you are lying or if they think at a second time that the information they provided are not that correct, etc...
Click to expand...
If USCIS told each applicant how much they know or don't know about their travels, that would make it easier for the applicant to lie and get away with it.
 
Debatable. Could depend on the standpoint adopted.
We know that about you = you can't lie. It's true unless you have documents, facts, witnesses etc... to prove the opposite.
We don't know that about you = we considere it at your disadvantage, up to you to demonstrate the opposite.
Here the USCIS tells the applicant, openly, what they know about him and it's harder for the applicant to lie and get away with it.

The fact that they don't disclose the information could (or could not) be interpreted that they don't have it in spite of the time, computer power, personnel (DBAs) and other means.

Erring by the side of truth is suggested to be the thing to do. Nowadays we can hope that there are (still) laws, rights and recourse to trust the system. It was a time it wasn't like that.
 
Nestor67 said:
The fact that they don't disclose the information could (or could not) be interpreted that they don't have it in spite of the time, computer power, personnel (DBAs) and other means.
Click to expand...
Indeed, they are asking people about their trips because they don't have complete information about everybody. But they do have partial information, and you don't know what details they know or don't know.

Suppose they have 80% knowledge of your travels. If they told you which 80% they know, you could easily hide the existence of the other 20%. But if you don't know which 80% they have, you would tell them of the entire 100% on the N-400 if you don't want to risk getting in trouble. So the current approach of asking you to list everything, combined with the threat of denial or deportation if they catch you lying or omitting something, is more effective for forming a complete picture of your travels than if they simply said, "We know about your trips on these dates X, Y, Z. Are these true?"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackolantern said:
Indeed, they are asking people about their trips because they don't have complete information about everybody. But they do have partial information, and you don't know what details they know or don't know.

Suppose they have 80% knowledge of your travels. If they told you which 80% they know, you could easily hide the existence of the other 20%. But if you don't know which 80% they have, you would tell them of the entire 100% on the N-400 if you don't want to risk getting in trouble. So the current approach of asking you to list everything, combined with the threat of denial or deportation if they catch you lying or omitting something, is more effective for forming a complete picture of your travels than if they simply said, "We know about your trips on these dates X, Y, Z. Are these true?"
Click to expand...

Person A sent his N400 and has Interview in 15-20 days. He had copy of N400 that he sent to USCIS and he showed me the copy of application. He had only three trips out of US after he got Green Card and trips were 14 days+ 20 days+ 25days. No problem with the trips I just checked his passport and found a Stamp by CBP that showed his last Entry to US on February 21, 2008. His last entry to US was on February 2006 I knew that he newer gone out of US after February 21, 2006. I asked him about the stamp with wrong Year. He never noticed that and got scared that at the time of Citizenship Interview officer may check his passport and may be problem. He has been working and has all the pay stubs from February 21, 2006 till date. I sent him to CBP deferred inspection and he explained the problem. CBP officer asked the date when he last came to US and he gave the date February 21, 2006. Officer just took the Printout in 2-3 minutes and cancelled the wrong stamp on passport and gave new Stamp with correct entry date of February 21, 2006. Officer had Printout in his hand and Person asked how many trips CBP record shows after he became Permanent Resident? Officer said Three. It means the CBP has full info/record of Entry to US.
 
you would tell them of the entire 100% on the N-400 if you don't want to risk getting in trouble
Click to expand...

Is this a guarantee to be out of trouble?

if they catch you lying or omitting something
Click to expand...
If they catch you lying it means that they have the info.
If they catch you omitting it alse means that they already have the info.
If they have the info why then trying to entrap you instead of helping you by disclosing what they have.
So I suppose that they can catch you with contradicting informations that you feed them.
Or is the threat power of denial or deportation a means to get the info from you, on you, that they don't have (that relates to what I wrote before about telling the truth).


It means the CBP has full info/record of Entry to US.

It means they had the full info for that particular person. But they don't have full info for 100% of all the permanent residents.
Click to expand...

This confirms that data got from GC scanning are never lost even if not displayed on the IO's screen at the time when he inspects a flight passenger. Hence it means that they have full Entry info for 100% of all the permanent residents (provided that they have a scannable GC and the entry was thru regular POE)

Ginnu, was the CBP able to tell him his exit infos?
 
Nestor67 said:
If they catch you lying it means that they have the info.
If they catch you omitting it alse means that they already have the info.
Click to expand...
Neither means that they have 100% info. It only means they had enough partial info to catch you in that particular instance. They don't need 100% info to catch you.

Suppose you took 10 trips and they know all except trips #5 and #9. Then you decide to omit trips #5 and #6, telling them only of 1-4 and 7-10. You still get caught with them only knowing of 80% of your trips, because they knew about #6 which you failed to list. And they now learned of #9 which they didn't know of before, because you told them of 7-10.
If they have the info why then trying to entrap you instead of helping you by disclosing what they have.
Click to expand...
It's because they DON'T always have 100% info for everybody that they try to trap you into revealing more. If they revealed the specific extent of their knowledge to you, it would be more difficult for them to extract additional info from you. In the above example, you could simply omit #5 and #9 and list all the rest, if you knew exactly what information they had. But as a result of not knowing how much they know, you revealed #9 to them and got caught for failing to list #6.
This confirms that data got from GC scanning are never lost even if not displayed on the IO's screen at the time when he inspects a flight passenger. Hence it means that they have full Entry info for 100% of all the permanent residents (provided that they have a scannable GC and the entry was thru regular POE)
Click to expand...
It doesn't confirm anything but the fact that they have 100% of the entry data for that specific individual. It doesn't mean they have 100% for me or you and the other millions of GC holders.
 
I precised scannable GC and entry thru (regular) POE. In that case why can't they have 100% of the entry information of 100% of the GC holders?
CBP agent omiting to scan the card and to stamp the passport? (No one counts on that).

I imagine that if you leap over the us-mexican fence (in both ways) and avoid all the sensors they won't have this entry/exit info (here exiting the country on foot instead of leaping should save some efforts).
This might be the info they will try to get from you in such a trap. But I don't imagine someone who frauded, not got caught, offering such a confession.

You reach the same point of view. Asking the applicant to draw up the list of his/her travel is a way to have him/her reveal more than they know.

Anyway, I read a Q/A on the CBP site and they claim to have all the info about the trips made by sea and air (except private planes and vessels, border crossing on foot and other special cases).
So
1- They can build up your list of travels, hand it to the USCIS at the time of N-400 application. No need to lie and no need to try to trap someone.
2- As they say, it is time consuming (and probably not free, at least for the applicant). Now I assume it is easier for USCIS to get the info from the N-400 applicant than to ask the CBP to do that research (and present that list to the applicant). In case of doubt they can always request such a research and bill it to the applicant.
 
Nestor67 said:
Is this a guarantee to be out of trouble?


If they catch you lying it means that they have the info.
If they catch you omitting it alse means that they already have the info.
If they have the info why then trying to entrap you instead of helping you by disclosing what they have.
So I suppose that they can catch you with contradicting informations that you feed them.
Or is the threat power of denial or deportation a means to get the info from you, on you, that they don't have (that relates to what I wrote before about telling the truth).




This confirms that data got from GC scanning are never lost even if not displayed on the IO's screen at the time when he inspects a flight passenger. Hence it means that they have full Entry info for 100% of all the permanent residents (provided that they have a scannable GC and the entry was thru regular POE)

Ginnu, was the CBP able to tell him his exit infos?
Click to expand...
------------------He did not ask for his Exit info. He knows when he went out of US and he went to India 3 times and when you enter India you get stamp in your passport and when you exit India then also you get Exit stamp with date.
 
This is a very interesting discussion. However, all of your ideas are purely hypothetical. In one of the threads I read a posting about a guy who is a GC holder and comes to the US for a couple a days every year and in reply to the IO's question "How long have you been out?" he says "Only 2 weeks".
So I am inclined to believe that IOs do not have any info about when you leave the US. They only know when you come back.
 
Interestingly enough when I was boarding the plane last Sat in SFO, there were two immigration officers with laptops standing at the gate and scanning our passports or in my case my green card.
This is the first time it happend. But at the same time, nobody scanned my passport when I was checking in.
 
pashto said:
This is a very interesting discussion. However, all of your ideas are purely hypothetical. In one of the threads I read a posting about a guy who is a GC holder and comes to the US for a couple a days every year and in reply to the IO's question "How long have you been out?" he says "Only 2 weeks".
So I am inclined to believe that IOs do not have any info about when you leave the US. They only know when you come back.
Click to expand...

But that's a risky game. They usually let people go without further questioning if they say they were out for couple weeks.

If officer wants to know more, how can you be sure, that they don't have information against you in a database?

Then , I think, such lie can be a ground for revoking one's green card.
 
sotiredofwaiting said:
Interestingly enough when I was boarding the plane last Sat in SFO, there were two immigration officers with laptops standing at the gate and scanning our passports or in my case my green card.
This is the first time it happend. But at the same time, nobody scanned my passport when I was checking in.
Click to expand...

Right. This just confirms my assumption that airlines do not share their information with border patrol. Your experience demonstrates that IOs are just beginning to impose harsher control over travelers who exit the US. In the past they did it using I-94 forms: outbound travelers had to surrender their I-94s to the airline that, in its turn, passed them over to the immigration. However, this was a mere formality as a lot of visitors lost their I-94s and had nothing to surrender upon departure.
 
pashto said:
This is a very interesting discussion. However, all of your ideas are purely hypothetical. In one of the threads I read a posting about a guy who is a GC holder and comes to the US for a couple a days every year and in reply to the IO's question "How long have you been out?" he says "Only 2 weeks".
So I am inclined to believe that IOs do not have any info about when you leave the US. They only know when you come back.
Click to expand...
As I said before, they don't have 100% exit info for everybody. I've traveled outside the US 3 times since obtaining my GC, and only on 2 out of 3 trips they swiped my GC when I checked in. But they do have the information for some people, as some people have been sent to secondary inspection when the IO noticed their trip was very long.

Other times, they have the information in a database but it doesn't pop up on the screen at the port of entry. If the airline didn't swipe the green card at the departure flight, the system wouldn't be able to automatically correlate the data to the individual because there wouldn't be a unique identifier for that person for the exit. But if they sent you into the secondary inspection room, they could ask when was your exit date and which airline you flew on and where you flew, and run a query to see if anybody with your name flew on that airline on that date to that destination.
 
Jackolantern said:
As I said before, they don't have 100% exit info for everybody. I've traveled outside the US 3 times since obtaining my GC, and only on 2 out of 3 trips they swiped my GC when I checked in. But they do have the information for some people, as some people have been sent to secondary inspection when the IO noticed their trip was very long.

Other times, they have the information in a database but it doesn't pop up on the screen at the port of entry. If the airline didn't swipe the green card at the departure flight, the system wouldn't be able to automatically correlate the data to the individual because there wouldn't be a unique identifier for that person for the exit. But if they sent you into the secondary inspection room, they could ask when was your exit date and which airline you flew on and where you flew, and run a query to see if anybody with your name flew on that airline on that date to that destination.
Click to expand...

You are right.

However, airlines always scan either passport or green card. So the data about you are in database, no doubt.

Maybe, as you said, the data don't pop up on the screen when you arrive to U.S. , but if you lied and sent to secondary inspection, ... :confused: ...

Anyway one could just silently depart overseas and return after 5 year saying "I have been living here for 5 years and this trip was just 2 weeks long". And get citizenship :)
 
Hannah7 said:
Anyway one could just silently depart overseas and return after 5 year saying "I have been living here for 5 years and this trip was just 2 weeks long". And get citizenship :)
Click to expand...
Sure, some people probably do that and get away with it, just like some people manage to live here for 20 years illegally. But some people definitely get caught, like the poster of this other thread: http://forums.immigration.com/showthread.php?t=297222
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top