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Trump attacks Diversity Visa program

saabe said:
I'm afraid Statistics do not lie. Aside from wealthy and anti-communist Cuban refugees who came in the 60's and their descendents....Hispanics tend to favor Democrats and tend to skew politics in favor of Democrats in places where they become a majority or a large minority. Denying this is like denying African Americans are largely democrats, christian white men are largely republicans, or that identity politics doesn't exist in the US.
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Your starting argument was about "chain migration" in general. Why do you continue to argue about "Hispanics": the terrorist who entered from Uzbekistan in 2011 through the DV-2010 program managed to facilitate 23 additional immigration cases into the US from this country of origin. I assume you don't argue they all voted all democratic, are you? ;)
 
EURO2014 said:
The other point you need to consider urgently as part of your argument is that "chain migration" is not applicable to immigrants from Latin America only, the suggestion of which may well be deemed racist in itself. This issue is rooted in current immigration law and applies equally to all, independent of native origin.
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Most of the 700.000 new legal immigrants who get a green card each year because of family ties are hispanics (especially Mexicans),....how stating a fact is racist?
 
saabe said:
Most of the 700.000 new legal immigrants who get a green card each year because of family ties are hispanics (especially Mexicans),....how stating a fact is racist?
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Some years ago folks started to argue that Republicans would not be able to win a Presidential election ever again, due to significant "Hispanic" immigration. Well, how did this argument work out? "Hispanics" (whatever that word is meant to mean specifically) can think and decide for themselves, and this is exactly what they will do politically as part of the acculturation process, like any other immigrant to this country has done in the past.
 
EURO2014 said:
Your starting argument was about "chain migration" in general. Why do you continue to argue about "Hispanics": the terrorist who entered from Uzbekistan in 2011 through the DV-2010 program managed to facilitate 23 additional immigration cases into the US from this country of origin. I assume you don't argue they all voted all democratic, are you? ;)
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I think you're mixing apples and oranges. Let's call it quits and go back to the topic.
 
saabe said:
Most of the 700.000 new legal immigrants who get a green card each year because of family ties are hispanics (especially Mexicans),....how stating a fact is racist?
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What do you define as “most”? Less than half of immigrants in fy2017 came from the Americas (and not all of those are Hispanic btw). Or are Asians suddenly Hispanic?
When talking about statistics not lying, it helps to refer to them. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/FY2017_Q1Q2Q3_tables_D.xlsx
 
SusieQQQ said:
Wow, racist much?https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton/93540772/

Also, do you actually have any clue as to US demographics?
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The title is misleading,....27%, that's within the "normal" percentage of Hispanics who vote for Republicans. check this--->
https://s3.amazonaws.com/resurgentrepublic.com/release121212/1.jpg

SusieQQQ said:
Oh, I see Euro has already made the arguments.

Yes, your code for “I concede I was wrong” is accepted ;)
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He didn't make any argument, all he did was calling me "RAACIIISSST!" for stating the obvious. o_O What did I say? More hispanics (The poor ones, the great majority, not the well-to-do cubans who fled communism)=More power for democrats. And Democrats which are not stupid, are well aware of that. Can you deny this? give me one single city or county with a large Mexican or Puerto Rican population which isn't ruled by democrats?

I called it quits because I know the mods wouldn't like us to go off topic. Go create a General Thread to discuss anything but DV-related topics,...and count me in.
 
saabe said:
The title is misleading,....27%, that's within the "normal" percentage of Hispanics who vote for Republicans. check this--->
https://s3.amazonaws.com/resurgentrepublic.com/release121212/1.jpg



He didn't make any argument, all he did was calling me "RAACIIISSST!" for stating the obvious. o_O What did I say? More hispanics (The poor ones, the great majority, not the well-to-do cubans who fled communism)=More power for democrats. And Democrats which are not stupid, are well aware of that. Can you deny this? give me one single city or county with a large Mexican or Puerto Rican population which isn't ruled by democrats?

I called it quits because I know the mods wouldn't like us to go off topic. Go create a General Thread to discuss anything but DV-related topics,...and count me in.
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Actually, age and wealth are at least as important as race in who you vote for. So yes your blanket “ hispanics vote for Democrats” is a racist statement, or at least a racial stereotype if you want a slightly better interpretation. And no they’re not all poor! Oh, but why does white wealthy manhattan vote overwhelmingly Democrat? Because stereotypes are dumb, that’s why. And don’t order me to do stuff just because people have the gall to call you out on your sweeping unfounded statements. Maybe you shouldn’t make them to begin with in threads that don’t concern them. You go create a new thread if that’s what you want, I don’t really have interest but I will call out BS when I see it in a thread that I’m already in.
And I guess that’s me done on this topic, enjoy your new thread and seeing what numbers you can magic up to try support your stereotypes :rolleyes:
 
SusieQQQ said:
So yes your blanket “ hispanics vote for Democrats” is a racist statement, or at least a racial stereotype if you want a slightly better interpretation.
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Young White IT professionals in San Francisco,...like you,......vote for Democrats, am I being racist towards you?
I saw a lot of homeless people in San Francisco, it's a poor city,....does this make sense?
Most hispanics in Los Angeles are Salvadorans,....because well, in 2017 more Salvadorans moved in than Mexicans. IS this a valid and logical argument?

This is my last off-topic post,....I would love to debate you, but just not here.
 
saabe said:
Young White IT professionals in San Francisco,...like you,......vote for Democrats, am I being racist towards you?
I saw a lot of homeless people in San Francisco, it's a poor city,....does this make sense?
Most hispanics in Los Angeles are Salvadorans,....because well, in 2017 more Salvadorans moved in than Mexicans. IS this a valid and logical argument?

This is my last off-topic post,....I would love to debate you, but just not here.
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I'm neither young, nor an IT professional. White, yes, you got a third of it right. That's a fail. Have you seen average house prices in San Francisco? Among the highest in the country. Have you seen incomes? A poor city, I think not, not by a long shot. (The homeless are there because they are better looked after than elsewhere.) Another fail. Sorry. I admittedly have no idea what the Hispanic make-up of LA is, but judging by your first two fails, I have to doubt your statement. If that's the kind of basis you argue off, you just shot yourself in the foot. bye.
 
saabe said:
Young White IT professionals in San Francisco,...like you,......vote for Democrats, am I being racist towards you?
I saw a lot of homeless people in San Francisco, it's a poor city,....does this make sense?
Most hispanics in Los Angeles are Salvadorans,....because well, in 2017 more Salvadorans moved in than Mexicans. IS this a valid and logical argument?

This is my last off-topic post,....I would love to debate you, but just not here.
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You are WAAAY confused about things - and seeing things through an incredibly narrow and inaccurate lens. All three of your statements are inaccurate. Maybe it would be best to not generalize - especially with your level of inaccuracy.
 
Britsimon said:
You are WAAAY confused about things - and seeing things through an incredibly narrow and inaccurate lens. All three of your statements are inaccurate. Maybe it would be best to not generalize - especially with your level of inaccuracy.
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These were rhetorical statements (I thought the sarcasm was quite clear),...the second and third ones are just examples of arguments based on falses premises Susie tend to make.
Of course San Francisco is not poor (quite the contrary, it's one of the wealthiest cities of the US),...because it has a huge population of homeless. And of course Hispanics in the US as a whole, are relatively poor, despite Susie having wealthy Hispanic friends. Susie's friends and the homeless of San Francisco are not representative samples.
And of course you can't have an idea about the ethnic meakeup of Los Angeles by looking at 2017 statistics,...as you can't generalize about the beneficiaries of family-based vias by cherry-picking statistics from some particular year or period.
The first statement is both true and false,....if she's a young white professional living in coastal city, she's likely to be a liberal (statistics don't lie). It would be false if I said: Susie is young, white, works in IT and lives in San Fracisco, THEREFORE she's liberal.
 
SusieQQQ said:
I'm neither young, nor an IT professional. White, yes, you got a third of it right. That's a fail. Have you seen average house prices in San Francisco? Among the highest in the country. Have you seen incomes? A poor city, I think not, not by a long shot. (The homeless are there because they are better looked after than elsewhere.) Another fail. Sorry. I admittedly have no idea what the Hispanic make-up of LA is, but judging by your first two fails, I have to doubt your statement. If that's the kind of basis you argue off, you just shot yourself in the foot. bye.
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You just misunderstood my whole point. I am not describing you per se (I don't know you, I don't know what's your job, and I even thought you were black),...I was just giving you an example of collective behaviour of a statistical population that share certain charateristics,...not based on race (so you won't toss the word racist at me).
Of course I know San Francisco is one of the wealthiest and most expensive cities in the US. You're the one with the tendency of making a rule out of an exception.
And I have no idea if more Salvadorans or Colombians moved to LA in 2017 than Mexicans,....all I know most hispanics in LA are Mexicans. And if more Hondurans move to LA in 2017,....than Mexicans, it wouldn'y invalidate my argument that "most Hispanics in LA are Mexicans ,....this was a rethorical answer to your 2017 statistics about Family-based Visa recipients.

Seriously, let's just agree to disagree.
 
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Remember when you said “This is my last off-topic post.”
Pity you then went rambling off nonsensically again trying to justify previous generalizations. Sheesh.
 
saabe said:
These were rhetorical statements (I thought the sarcasm was quite clear),...the second and third ones are just examples of arguments based on falses premises Susie tend to make.
Of course San Francisco is not poor (quite the contrary, it's one of the wealthiest cities of the US),...because it has a huge population of homeless. And of course Hispanics in the US as a whole, are relatively poor, despite Susie having wealthy Hispanic friends. Susie's friends and the homeless of San Francisco are not representative samples.
And of course you can't have an idea about the ethnic meakeup of Los Angeles by looking at 2017 statistics,...as you can't generalize about the beneficiaries of family-based vias by cherry-picking statistics from some particular year or period.
The first statement is both true and false,....if she's a young white professional living in coastal city, she's likely to be a liberal (statistics don't lie). It would be false if I said: Susie is young, white, works in IT and lives in San Fracisco, THEREFORE she's liberal.
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OK - just stop.
 
Nice article in support of diversity visa lottery. My beef is with the description of the educational requirements which the authors choose to classify as “advanced degree”. I don’t consider a successful completion of high school as having an advanced degree.

There’s also the claim of less than 1% of West Africans having this “advanced degree” (high school diploma). Well I have no idea which West African countries the authors surveyed so they may be excused for the rather inaccurate portrayal in their article. High school completion is a forgone conclusion for roughly 90% of the people from the West African country I happen to come from.
 
Sm1smom said:
Nice article in support of diversity visa lottery. My beef is with the description of the educational requirements which the authors choose to classify as “advanced degree”. I don’t consider a successful completion of high school as having an advanced degree.

There’s also the claim of less than 1% of West Africans having this “advanced degree” (high school diploma). Well I have no idea which West African countries the authors surveyed so they may be excused for the rather inaccurate portrayal in their article. High school completion is a forgone conclusion for roughly 90% of the people from the West African country I happen to come from.
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Not to mention "vetting — which can last up to two years". I'd assume that 'scholars of the DV lottery' would know that fiscal year has only 12 months...
 
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