Tricky situation : Planning for citizenship : What precautions to take??

J

JGD_USC

Registered Users (C)
Hello Folks,
This is a great forum. A big thank you to all the members for the wealth of information given here.I need your valuable advice on our situation.

We got our GC last year (Sept 2009). My wife and kids are going to be out of US for the next 2-4 years,for personal reasons. Meanwhile, I have got an offer from the US company I am working for, to work for 4-5 months from my home country. I will be paid in US dollars and the money will be deposited to my bank account here.

PLAN A:-
is to travel and work from my home country for a max 5 months every year, for the next 3 years, until 2013. Then maybe work for a year in my home country (to gain experience), during which I plan to visit US once in 5 months for say 2 weeks. And finally apply for citizenship in June 2014 (after 4 yrs, 9 mos).

PLAN B:-
is to travel and work from my home country for a max 5 months every year, for the next 4 years, until 2014. That way, every year, I will be in US for close to 7 months. And finally apply for citizenship in June 2014 (after 4 yrs, 9 mos).

In both scenarios above, I will have met the physical presence of more than 30 months and continuous residency..The catch is, my wife and kids in all probabilities will be out of US (on a re-entry permit), so I will have no family in US when I am in my home country ..

Given my tricky situation, what precautions can I take to increase the chances of my success with citizenship? How do I show a strong intent?
1. Should I maintain a continuous lease?? I will be wasting a lot of money here since I will be out of US 5 months every year..If I show the receipt of storage, will it be useful, instead of lease agreement??
2. I will of course maintain bank account, drivers licence, car insurance and such..Are there any small business that I can try to prove stronger intent?
3. How does my case look? For personal reasons, staying put in US for the next 5 years continuously is not possible..So, kindly help with your advice, suggestions and tips.
4. Lastly, what are our chances?? Fingers crossed..
Thanks a lot in advance!
JGD!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Without an approved N-470 your chances for success are close to zero. Determine if your US employer is able to apply for N-470 for you so that you maintain your continuous residency. Traveling back and forth to US while working and living with family in a foreign country without an approved N-470 will cause break in your continuous residency.
 
Plan B gives you a realistic chance at citizenship, assuming you consistently stay in the US for 5 months max every year and keep your house/apartment in the US while you're gone. But it's still far from guaranteed. And knowing how employers and projects work, you're almost surely going to end up in a situation where the planned 5 months abroad stretches into more than 6 months.

However, if you can get an approved N-470 to cover your extended absences from the US, you shouldn't have a problem if you stay in the US long enough to meet the physical presence requirement. And your family would also be able to benefit from your N-470 to preserve their continuous residence for naturalization (although it looks like they'd still fail the physical presence requirement).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
tough situation.

even though you only stay less than 6 months outside the US but if you do that every year, it could raise suspicion when the officer reviews your application. Even though you have a bank account here, it wouldn't count.

Like mentioned above, the best solution is getting N -470. Also, check the requirement for N-470, I think you have to be physically present in the US the continuous 1 year without any absence before filing.
 
Thank you all so much for the responses.
Hmm..N470..I will have one year or continuous stay in US from Sep 09 to Sep 2010..I cancelled a europe trip so that the continuous 1 year doesn't break..So that part is ok..
My company is trying some stuff in my home country..But it is unlikely that they will let me work from there all year..Maybe I might have to work for 3-4 months from US even after applying for N470 (maybe during last 2 years)..Is it ok to visit US and work from US for few months a year even while on N470?

Another thought here- if we tweak our plan a little bit (without N470) and either
a> Work from home country for 4 instead of 5 months..AND OR
b> Wife and kids stay for another year in US until 2011 May..After that from 2011 Sept to 2014 June, if I do the 4 months outside US work, will it be better? Or is it of not much use?

Please share your thoughts.
 
There's no magic number of months that will guarantee success. What USCIS will look for are all your residency ties to the US. If you temporarily work outside US for a US company for 4-5 months out of the year while maintaining a primary US abode the entire year, you shouldn't have any problems in proving that you did not intent to break continuous residency requirement.
 
Good move on canceling that trip so you can build the continuous 1 year of presence for the N-470.

If you have the approved N-470, you can stay outside the US as long and as often as you want and still preserve eligibility for citizenship (provided you don't stay outside so long that your reentry permit expires or you violate the physical presence requirements).

Bear in mind that continuous residence for naturalization is largely a subjective decision, so we can't tell you any formula that will guarantee success if you're going to be spending several months every year outside the US without an N-470. They look at the total picture of your trips and your ties to the US, balanced against your ties abroad (if any) and use their discretion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BobSmyth and JackoLantern,
Thank you for sparing your time..:)

We will go for a continuous lease instead of opting for storage. Hopefully, that should help proving our intent and we will keep the trips upto 4 months in a year.

I have another question,
1. In the interview, will they ask details about wife and kids (why they are on re-entry permit and so on)? Or is it more concentrated on the individual applying for citizenship?
2. My kids are US citizens..Does that help my case in any way?
3. If we go the N470 way, we will apply for it in 2012 once I meet the physical presence requirement...So, between 2010 and 2012, I will have still made 4 month trips outside US..Should that be ok?
4. Also, we have lived in US for the last 10 years. Will that help in any way? We had applied for our 485 in 2007 itself and got stuck in the queue..IS there any consideration for that? It will be nice if immigration reform (?!) would make some difference to people who had long waits..

I know you are giving your suggestions and that there is probably no success formula. Even then, we would like it think it through properly and give it our best shot. Hence the questions. Totally appreciate your help and answers in this regard. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1. One factor in deciding continuous residence is whether your spouse and minor children stayed in the US while you were outside the US. I don't think they'll bother to dive into details of why they were outside the US; the mere fact that they were outside the US counts against you when they're evaluating your whole picture of continuous residence. But if you have an approved N-470 it doesn't matter, as the N-470 preserves your continuous residence when you're working overseas for the employer, regardless of where your family stayed.

2. Not much, since they'll be outside the US.

3. Yes, but it would be better to apply for the N-470 before your first 4-month trip.

4. No that won't help. As far as continuous residence/physical presence is concerned, they only look back 5 years before you applied for citizenship, and ignore the time before you became a permanent resident.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
JackOLantern, thanks so much!

I think we need to seriously think about the possibility of N470...My company has not gone public (no listing in stock market)..Can privately owned US companies sponsort N470? What other criteria should we look for?
1. Are there people in this forum who have got N470 processed successfully? Any links? Also, is the form N470 filed by the individual himself or is it filed by the US company? If it is a cumbersome process, the company may not agree is what I am worried about..
2. Also, one of my kids is not a USC. If I get naturalized (pray!), will my kid also get citizenship directly?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Your employer can be a private company and still qualify you for the N-470. However, the definition of what constitutes a US corporation for N-470 purposes is not clear-cut and it may not be what you think, so it's hard to know ahead of time if your company would qualify. However, if you can find out if anybody else in the same company ever got an N-470, that would let you know that the company meets the acceptable USCIS criteria (unless the company has since been bought or merged or restructured to the extent that it would no longer meet the criteria).

Yes other people here have gotten N-470. Use the search feature.

You the individual file the N-470, although you need to attach supporting documentation from the company. Download the N-470 form and instructions for details.

If your child is under 18 and has a green card and is living with you in the US when you naturalize (or at some time after you naturalize, provided they are still under 18), your child will obtain derived citizenship.
 
Thanks again JackOLantern..:)
I searched a lot for N470 experiences, but am not able to find details.
If we have N470, then is the requirement of being a permanent resident for deriving the citizenship also taken care of automatically?

If no N470 then, maintaining my kid's REP is again a must I guess..Do they renew REPs again after the first 2 years?? Because we have already applied recently and we will need to renew it once more before we reach 2014..
 
JGD_USC said:
Thanks again JackOLantern..:)
I searched a lot for N470 experiences, but am not able to find details.
If we have N470, then is the requirement of being a permanent resident for deriving the citizenship also taken care of automatically?
Click to expand...
The child only derives citizenship after you naturalize, by which time N-470 is irrelevant. Children under 18 don't need to satisfy continuous residence or physical presence requirements to get derivative citizenship through a naturalized parent, they just need to still have valid permanent resident status and be living in the US with the naturalized parent. So if they're going to be overseas for a long time, they need the reentry permit to preserve the green card until you naturalize. Then you would bring the child back to the US to live with you and apply for the child's US passport.

If no N470 then, maintaining my kid's REP is again a must I guess..Do they renew REPs again after the first 2 years??
Click to expand...
Yes, although the 2nd permit may be for just 1 year instead of 2.
 
It is very nice of you to be helping everyone around here JackOLantern..Thank you so much..

Ok, need some more clarifications..
1> I am not getting much results for N470 experiences..Can I open a new thread just for that??
Anyone who have an approved N470, can you please share your experiences?
Also, what happens if they deny N470? Does it cause problems during citizenship interview later??

2>I will be joining my client after 8 months of GC..That should be fine, right?? Please opine...

Thanks!
 
JGD_USC said:
Ok, need some more clarifications..
1> I am not getting much results for N470 experiences..Can I open a new thread just for that??
Click to expand...
Sure, go ahead!

Also, what happens if they deny N470? Does it cause problems during citizenship interview later??
Click to expand...
Depends on how long and how often you spend outside the US without it.

2>I will be joining my client after 8 months of GC..That should be fine, right??
Click to expand...
A client in the US or an overseas client? Remember you need one unbroken year of presence in the US (as a permanent resident) to qualify for the N-470.

Or are you worrying about the "change jobs too soon" situation? 8 months post-GC approval should be more than enough time to stay with the sponsoring employer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jackolantern said:
A client in the US or an overseas client? Remember you need one unbroken year of presence in the US (as a permanent resident) to qualify for the N-470.

Or are you worrying about the "change jobs too soon" situation? 8 months post-GC approval should be more than enough time to stay with the sponsoring employer.
Click to expand...

I will be joining the same US client for whom I will be working for 4 months from my home country...I was worrying about the latter situation..I guess I should be fine then since it is 8 months..
Thanks!
 
JackOLantern, BobSmyth and others,

We need some more inputs from you all. We have decided to check with a lawyer regarding N470..If that works, great, nothing like it..

If in case that is not possible, we are thinking of the following:

1. I will go to my home country for say not more than 4 months a year. I will get a letter from my employer saying that the employer sent me for a temporary assignment each year.
2. I will show my pay stubs here and prove that I did not take up any other job in my home country.
3. I will rent an apartment with continuous lease and have my wife's name also in the lease..This will be maintained during my trips abroad too..
4. Wife and kids go on re-entry permit and renew the permit for 2 more years if need be..Since the re-entry permit will be there, even if I am questioned during interview regarding wife/kids, I can tell that she has temporarily gone on a re-entry permit, for family reasons and she will be back soon. We want to live in US since our kid is a US citizen and education opportunities are good here..Having a reentry permit should clear her intent to come back to US..
5. I will of course maintain my bank accounts, drivers licence, etc and also have my car here.
6. We will be filing tax under "married filing jointly" and as a resident each year..

How does this look? Any other tips from you Gurus?


If anyone has any positive experience similar to ours, with travelling abroad every year, please share.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello friends,

We are getting ready to file for N470. I have a few questions before we go ahead. It will really help if you can clarify ASAP.

1. 1. WHile filing N470, in order to avail/claim the same benefits, will my wife and kids also have to have satisfied the one year uninterrupted stay after

getting GC in US?

2. Since we have to maintain the re-entry permit along with N470, if N470 is for more than 2 years (like say 4 years), will USCIS grant re-entry permit for
a longer period of 4 years instead of two years?? If yes, fine. If not, can we file for re-entry permit extension from outside US, for example in our case from our native country itself? Or do we have to travel to US, just for the sake of filing re-entry permit??

3. How long does it take for N470 to be processed in Chicago? Is there any way to trace its progress??


Also, in case my wife and kids are not eligible for N470, I believe my kid can derive citizenship from me, once (hopefully) I get naturalised. Is that right? I also read that in order for a kid to derive citizenship from the parent, either
a> you have to have legal custody of your kid while abroad and the kid should lawfully enter US with the parent and get USC OR
b> the kid should enter as a permanent resident and then should be in the legal custody of the parent in US (now for how long is this - few weeks or few years) before the kid can get derived citizenship..
Are the above true?? What will happen in our situation then? Because my kid will be with my wife in our home country while I do the travelling. If not for N470, my kid might enter on re-entry permit. But then, will I have to prove that my kid was under my legal custody in order to get her the USC???

JackOlantern, BobSmyth, and other Gurus, please shed some light.

Thanks!
JGD_USC
 
JGD_USC said:
Hello friends,

We are getting ready to file for N470. I have a few questions before we go ahead. It will really help if you can clarify ASAP.

1. 1. WHile filing N470, in order to avail/claim the same benefits, will my wife and kids also have to have satisfied the one year uninterrupted stay after

getting GC in US?

2. Since we have to maintain the re-entry permit along with N470, if N470 is for more than 2 years (like say 4 years), will USCIS grant re-entry permit for
a longer period of 4 years instead of two years?? If yes, fine. If not, can we file for re-entry permit extension from outside US, for example in our case from our native country itself? Or do we have to travel to US, just for the sake of filing re-entry permit??

3. How long does it take for N470 to be processed in Chicago? Is there any way to trace its progress??
Click to expand...

1. If you naturalize before your children turn 18, and they still have a green card and otherwise meet the requirements of the Child Citizenship Act, N-470 is irrelevant for your kids. They'll derive citizenship regardless of breaking continuous residence or physical presence. It's only an issue if they turn 18 without getting citizenship and then have to apply on their own merit.

For your wife, I'm not sure if she has to satisfy the 1-year requirement to benefit from your N-470. But if she doesn't, she can apply for citizenship 3 years after you naturalize.

2. Reentry permit is for a max of 2 years, and is processed independently of the N-470. They don't consider the N-470 when deciding the validity length of the reentry permit.

b> the kid should enter as a permanent resident and then should be in the legal custody of the parent in US (now for how long is this - few weeks or few years) before the kid can get derived citizenship..
Click to expand...
What counts is legal and physical custody on or after the day you naturalize, and there is no specific length of time of custody, other than what is sufficient to show that the child is actually residing in the US with you (so applying for the child's US passport or N-600 right as the child returned to the US after spending a long time abroad, or after living for a long time with the other separated/divorced parent, may be problematic in some cases). If both parents are married and living together, legal custody is presumed for both, so the main issue would be proving that your child meets the physical custody requirement (i.e. is physically living with you in the same house/apartment).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top