Traveling with GC and Port of Entry checking!

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GC_TRAP

Registered Users (C)
This topic has come up many times in many different formats so I thought of putting my two cents as well as some questions on it.

We all know that if you are out of the US for less than six months with a GC, you are probably okay coming back in. If you repeat this absence very frequently, you are likely to be asked questions or even stand to lose your GC.

Leaving for more than six months with a Reentry Permit is a safe bet, for the most part.

The part that intrigues me as I read other posters experiences is how does the INS officer at PoE really know when you left the US. For eg, if they don't swipe your GC at the time of leaving (usually they don't, at least they didn't for me when I left), and then you come back, let's say six months later, how does he know when exactly you left?

To say that the airline provided this information to the INS officer does not add up. That would mean a permanent account number/name to which the airline sends its data everytime you travel and which is maintained by USCIS. Secondly, that would have to be a very exhaustive database which the INS officer would have to look up when you come back.

The other option is that he looks at stamps from your country's immigration authorities on your passport to verify when you left (or arrived to that country). This again is misleading as upon return to the US, he/she does not ask for passport in every case.

So, in theory, if one arrives in Canada (family reasons as well) from overseas and then drives across the border to the US, could one bypass the limitation or condition of six-month return to the US? If the US officer checks your GC, and swipes it, it's a moot point as he does not know when you left the US. However, if he checks the passport, he would know you left India a few days before you decided to enter the US.

I know of people who are not spending more than 2-3 months in the US every year, yet are maintaining their GCs for many years. How are they doing it?

Any thoughts?
 
I totally agree with you whatever you have described in your post.
At the poE they ask how many months you were abroad then swipe the GC in computer.
Sometime no stamping on the passport etc.
really i also want to know how do they know exactly on what date person left the country for abroad unless they check oyur passport for the seal of other country.
Please discuss more about this situation.
"I know of people who are not spending more than 2-3 months in the US every year, yet are maintaining their GCs for many years. How are they doing it? "

very true
 
GC_TRAP said:
For eg, if they don't swipe your GC at the time of leaving (usually they don't, at least they didn't for me when I left), and then you come back, let's say six months later, how does he know when exactly you left?
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The airlines provide passenger manifests to DHS. The Canadians share land crossing data with DHS. I wouldn't expect that there is 100% coverage of all exits, but I'd venture that "most" are recorded.

To say that the airline provided this information to the INS officer does not add up. That would mean a permanent account number/name to which the airline sends its data everytime you travel and which is maintained by USCIS. Secondly, that would have to be a very exhaustive database which the INS officer would have to look up when you come back.
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What you mention is exactly what DHS does, and I am at a loss as to why you think it would be so hard to do. Querying multi-billion-row databases is trivial work for private entities, and even easier for DHS.

If the US officer checks your GC, and swipes it, it's a moot point as he does not know when you left the US.
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Why are you so sure?

I know of people who are not spending more than 2-3 months in the US every year, yet are maintaining their GCs for many years. How are they doing it?
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The POE checks are not exhaustive, nor do they check every time. I'd be really curious to see what happens to these people at naturalization. Record keeping has gotten much better since 2000, and sooner or later they will get caught.
 
THEREAL CANADIAN
whatever you said about the record may be correct.
This will be a real problem at the time of naturalization.
but if people do things unknowingly What is the solution for that?
Can you read the posting from shanchak and lets see what is your opinion regarding that situation.
Thanks
 
Deception or lack of clarity!

It may very well be deception but interestingly, some people who've had GCs for over 10-15 years seem to think that the only requirement to maintain GC is to visit the US once every year for a few months.

I do not know if that indeed was the rule years ago but I've heard it from more than one person that there is no requirement to stay in the US for six months every year just to maintain the GC. Obviously, the rule is different now.

As far as naturalization problems are concerned, I guess it only applies if you are serious about getting naturalized. What if you simply want to keep your GC and overseas Passport for a long time? In that case, you can continue to visit the US and keep your GC.

I still wonder if crossing into the US from Canada can (or will) override the six month condition for GC holders?
 
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Even if this requirement did not exist when they got their GCs, it still applies to them now.

GC_TRAP said:
It may very well be deception but interestingly, some people who've had GCs for over 10-15 years seem to think that the only requirement to maintain GC is to visit the US once every year for a few months.
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Why should it? Canada is just another foreign country like Zambia is.

GC_TRAP said:
I still wonder if crossing into the US from Canada can (or will) override the six month condition for GC holders?
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GC_TRAP said:
I do not know if that indeed was the rule years ago but I've heard it from more than one person that there is no requirement to stay in the US for six months every year just to maintain the GC. Obviously, the rule is different now.
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There is no "you must stay here for six months every year" requirement. There never has been. Allow me to engage in a little bit of cultural speculation here - I think there are a lot of aliens of Asian origins who get confused and search for some sort of explicit "thou must do X, Y and Z" requirements from USCIS and INS. There aren't any.

The only requirement is that you reside in the US. That's what "resident" implies. Unfortunately, there's no explicit definition as to what that means - there's just a lot of little factors that put together create an entire picture of residence.

The amount of time you spend in the United States is very important. If you spend more time in another country that the US, it can be reasonable to conclude (or at the least suspect) that you are actually residing in that foreign country. Where are you employed? If you have a spouse and children, where are they? Do you own a residence or other property in the US? All these things put together can draw up a pretty clear description of where your residence is.

There are a few things that magically kick in after six month absences, like the requirement for admissibility and the presumption that continuous residence for naturalization has been abandoned. But it's extremely silly (and dangerous) to try and draw some sort of black and white rule like saying that one needs to set foot for a day in the US every six months.

If you spend most of your time abroad with your family, you are not employed in the United States and don't own property here, you do not reside in the United States unless you can make a pretty compelling case to USCIS. At the same time, there are situations where an absence of six months or more will not be a problem, even for naturalization purposes. But it all comes down to the entire picture, rather than something as simple as the number of days away at one time.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
If you spend most of your time abroad with your family, you are not employed in the United States and don't own property here, you do not reside in the United States unless you can make a pretty compelling case to USCIS. At the same time, there are situations where an absence of six months or more will not be a problem, even for naturalization purposes. But it all comes down to the entire picture, rather than something as simple as the number of days away at one time.
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Well said.

People can get away with multiple long absences for several years because the US doesn't have a cohesive and reliable system for tracking departures of green card holders. You don't give back an I-94, and the passenger manifests don't have uniquely identifying information such as A# or SSN.

However, the information is still stored somewhere so they can dig it up and piece it together whenever they decide they want to. It may not be readily available to them at the port of entry, but they'll take the time and energy to assemble it all together during naturalization, and that's when many people get caught for the first time.
 
To Jackolantern's post- if many get caught for the first time during naturalization, what happens? Are their greencards canceled or they get to keep their greencards but are denied citizenship?

Thanks,

soc_aus
 
soc_aus said:
if many get caught for the first time during naturalization, what happens? Are their greencards canceled or they get to keep their greencards but are denied citizenship?
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It depends. If they made a false statement on the N400 that could be grounds for deportation. USCIS may also determine that they abandoned residency.
 
re entry permit

THE REAL CANADIAN
I think your all reply for this thread is very interesting and also very scary.
Can you comment for the following situation please.
one of My relative is almost ready to apply for naturalization but this issue is making us scared to apply.
No one wants to lose the Green card.
It is really a hard earned card for many(I think many will agree with me).

Applied re-entry permit before leaving US but the re entry permit was issued after 6 months of the application received by USCIS. If the person re enter US within the re entry permit date limit which was exactly 2 years from the issuing date but actually stay 2 years 5 months (because of the delay of issuing the permit by USCIS) ,will it be against the rule of within 2 years limit to calculate the 4years 1 day rule (continuous residency) for the purpose NATURALIZATION

As the reentry permit was issued late, the person could stay 2 years 5 months. Off course these 2years 5 months would not be counted towards 5 years continuous residency. There will be 4 years I day rule provided person return within 2 years (the date mentioned in the reentry permit)

The person is able to stay abroad for 5 months more with the 2 years re entry permit for the delay of issuing the reentry permit by the USCIS.
Just to make the situation more clear , suppose the person went abroad may 2004 and returned oct 2006 and the reentry date was valid till nov 2006.
Will 2 yrs 5 months be a problem any like breaking the rule or something if it is shown in the N 400 form?
Continuous residency can be counted from oct 2005 but in the naturalization form(N400) there is a column where one has to state the entire history of stay since the availability of green card.
Interesting thing also is that the person asked the US Embessy abraod how long one can stay with the reentry permit. They sais till the Expire date.BUt they never asked What was the arrival date or how many mothns one is staying abroad.
Will it be an issue at the time naturalization?
I am agianst any kind of deception though.
Thank you .YOu all are very clever and well versed in US immigration and naturalization rules it seems.
 
The 4 years + 1 day rule is tied to the date of reentry after the long trip(s), not to the reentry permit or whether the trip was more or less than 2 years.
 
date of reentry to US ? off course
4 years + 1 day rule is fine that is not a problem.
my question was if anyone stays 2years + few months within the validity of reentry permit is breaking of rule of anykind like overstaying etc.
" Effect of travel before a decision is made. Departure from the United States before a decision is made on an application for a reentry permit or refugee travel document shall not affect the application. "
I found this rule in gov wesite.Can anyone explain the meaning of above stated rule about reentry permit.
Please do not tell me to go to Lawyer.Then What is the use of being in the discussion forum?
 
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