Traffic Tickets- A Somewhat Severe Case (or not) Please Advise.

I

iknow

New Member
Hello Everyone, :confused:

I was following the forum for few days now, I read many of the previous postings on the topic of Traffic Tickets, however, I am still wondering about my case to some extent.

Issue:
My age: 25

Since 2004 (When I got my Driving License) up until the end of 2009, I have had 19 stops.

Break Down:
7 - Dismissals (Routine stop by the Police, had to present Driver License or Insurance proof in court, just had to prove I had it, all 7 dismissed)
5 Seat Belt Tickets
7 Speeding tickets (regular speeding, 5-19 over limit)

Note:
All tickets were paid in full, on time.
Highest ticket was 180$.
No DUI's or any other severe traffic violations.
No criminal record.

Currently work for State Government over a year.


One factor that contributed to my above average ticket problem: Worked for 5 years as a Pizza Delivery Driver. Got most on the job. I don't know if anyone would even care, but still, the only excuse i got.

So, here I am, February 5th, 2010.

Went for a consultation in a free Immigration Workshop Service Agency (Government Subsidized), they help people top file the Citizenship doc's and also have an attorney on duty. They told me there is a 75% chance of my application being denied due to the traffic violations. They told me to wait 5 years and not get any tickets, or really minimize the number.
***They file all the paperwork with me and represent me if needed. They seem very professional. About the tickets, they told me to have a certified court disposition, which they file with the app's. I am not sure if its better to just bring the court disposition with you to file it, because clearly on the application, you need to disclose your citations, but not provide documentation unless its drug/alcohol/+500$. But they said I need to file it anyways along with my N400. To be on the safe side.

Some people say Traffic is non-issue, some say they are a problem. Some people get denied, some people appeal, so on and so forth.

Looking at the breakdown of my situation, is that safe to assume I am screwed and although I will apply, 100%, I am just wasting 700$ on an issue which is in fact a dead end? Or it depends on the IO, his/her "mood" swings that day?

Technically speaking I prefer to file now and get denied, then reapply and show that I am clean from the time I first filed.
What would you do/or did in a similar case.

Please evaluate.
Thanks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
iknow said:
Hello Everyone, :confused:

I was following the forum for few days now, I read many of the previous postings on the topic of Traffic Tickets, however, I am still wondering about my case to some extent.

Issue:
My age: 25

Since 2004 (When I got my Driving License) up until the end of 2009, I have had 19 stops.

Break Down:
7 - Dismissals (Routine stop by the Police, had to present Driver License or Insurance proof in court, just had to prove I had it, all 7 dismissed)
5 Seat Belt Tickets
7 Speeding tickets (regular speeding, 5-19 over limit)

Note:
All tickets were paid in full, on time.
Highest ticket was 180$.
No DUI's or any other severe traffic violations.
No criminal record.

Currently work for State Government over a year.


One factor that contributed to my above average ticket problem: Worked for 5 years as a Pizza Delivery Driver. Got most on the job. I don't know if anyone would even care, but still, the only excuse i got.

So, here I am, February 5th, 2010.

Went for a consultation in a free Immigration Workshop Service Agency (Government Subsidized), they help people top file the Citizenship doc's and also have an attorney on duty. They told me there is a 75% chance of my application being denied due to the traffic violations. They told me to wait 5 years and not get any tickets, or really minimize the number.

Some people say Traffic is non-issue, some say they are a problem. Some people get denied, some people appeal, so on and so forth.

Looking at the breakdown of my situation, is that safe to assume I am screwed and although I will apply, 100%, I am just wasting 700$ on an issue which is in fact a dead end? Or it depends on the IO, his/her "mood" swings that day?

Technically speaking I prefer to file now and get denied, then reapply and show that I am clean from the time I first filed.
What would you do/or did in a similar case.

Please evaluate.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you do file, I suggest you do this. Answer Yes to Qeustion 16 and write intp that table under Q 21 something like
"I got some traffic tickets " without details. During the interview just say "I got some tickets and I paid teh fine and
none of them is DUI and bgiggest fine is $ 180" There is a chance the IO does not even bother to ask about any further
specifics .

By the way,what do you mean 7 dismissal? If you were dismssied by the police without giving you a ticket, then they should
be treated as they never happened. You only need to disclsoe them if they were dismiised by court.

If the IO does ask how many tickets you got, indeed you got too many even after exclduing 9 dismissals. The IO
may say you have no reepsct for laws and thus no good moral character

A side note off topic:, I advise you wear seat belt as much as possible. At your age, you have life time odds 1 of 200 of
being killed in a car accident. Always wearing seat belt reduce that by half.
 
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WBH said:
If the IO does ask how many tickets you got, indeed you got too many even after exclduing 9 dismissals. The IO may say you have no reepsct for laws and thus no good moral character

A side note off topic:, I advise you wear seat belt as much as possible. At your age, you have life time odds 1 of 200 of
being killed in a car accident. Always wearing seat belt reduce that by half.
Click to expand...

Traffic tickets, even excessive amounts thereof, do not preclude applicants from demonstrating good moral character. If too many traffic tickets resulted in denial, then cab drivers would never become citizens.

As far as seatbelt laws are concerned, I don't agree with them, but that's just my opinion.

To answer the OP's question, I think it's safe to apply. You've been misinformed at the citizenship workshop. All of your traffic tickets are minor violations. The five year period applies to criminal convictions, not traffic tickets.

In fact, I am only aware of one person in recent times whose application was denied due to traffic tickets. He appealed and won.
 
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Vorpal said:
As far as seatbelt laws are concerned, I don't agree with them, but that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

You mean seat belt are useless or seal belt laws are not necessary?

I always wear seat belt and I won't start my car unless every passenger buckle up regardless they are required by law to buckle up or not.
and I always wear seat belt as passenger as long as there is seat belt (yes even on big buses if seat belt are available) regardless whether
law or driver requires me or not. I do think seat belt protect from death and injuries in car accidents. and I urge everyone who read this post
to develop such good habit.
 
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WBH said:
You mean seat belt are useless or seal belt laws are not necessary?

I always wear seat belt and I won't start my car unless every passenger buckle up regardless they are required by law to buckle up or not.
and I always wear seat belt as passenger as long as there is seat belt (yes even on big buses if seat belt are available) regardless whether
law or driver requires me or not. I do think seat belt protect from death and injuries in car accidents. and I urge everyone who read this post
to develop such good habit.
Click to expand...

Seat belt laws are a revenue generator, nothing more.

As far as seat belts themselves go, I have a friend who's a paramedic here in NYC. While he does advocate seatbelt use, he told me of several instances where he had to answer calls involving car accident victims who were trapped by their seat belts and died as a result.
 
Vorpal said:
Seat belt laws are a revenue generator, nothing more.

As far as seat belts themselves go, I have a friend who's a paramedic here in NYC. While he does advocate seatbelt use, he told me of several instances where he had to answer calls involving car accident victims who were trapped by their seat belts and died as a result.
Click to expand...

Others instancess where victism would have lived had they worn seat belt are much more. We have to prevent more likely cases. The same
reasoning here: there is no guarantee US citizenship is good thing for us more it is more likly it is good thing than it is a bad thing.
 
Vorpal said:
Traffic tickets, even excessive amounts thereof, do not preclude applicants from demonstrating good moral character. If too many traffic tickets resulted in denial, then cab drivers would never become citizens.
Click to expand...

In many states, three speeding tickets in 2 years can means suppspension of driver license. Do Cab drivers get special treatment
from DMV? How come the OP could prevent driver license suspension with 7 speeding tickets ?
 
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you dont even have to mention anything as long as its dui or dwi related or if single fine fee was not more than$500.00 or points on ur license. some advise you should mention abt the ticket under "citations" on ur n400 some advise that its not even worth to mention. It comes down to the IO. traffic tickets is not really an issue. i have come across a post in the form of a person being denied naturalization stating too many tickets in a small time frame implying failure to demonstrate good moral character by the IO, but that case was overturned upon his appeal. it might have cost him some extra time and a couple of hundred dollars. Its sure worth applying now depending on ur scenario..... 75 % of the chances are that ur good, and out of the 25 % chances of it being bad for u, it depend son the mood of the IO, if the IO had a fight with the spouse the very day things may work out bad for u ..... good luck
 
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WBH said:
In many states, three speeding tickets in 2 years can means suspension of driver license. Do Cab drivers get special treatment?
from DMV? How come the OP could prevent driver license suspension with 7 speeding tickets?
Click to expand...

My tickets mostly were in various periods, usually i got supervision for 30-60 days, didn’t get no ticket in the interim, and then if i got another one, the previous one would count towards a "suspension".
The magic of supervision indeed.

I got 7, approx 1-2 a year speeding, but each one, besides one, had supervision, so it didn’t "count"...
 
sreeleshk said:
you dont even have to mention anything as long as its dui or dwi related or if single fine fee was not more than$500.00 or points on ur license. some advise you should mention abt the ticket under "citations" on ur n400 some advise that its not even worth to mention. It comes down to the DO. traffic tickets is not really in issue. i have come across a post in the form of a person being denied naturalization stating too many tickets in a small time frame implying failure to demonstrate good moral character by the IO, but that case was overturned upon his appeal. it might have cost him some extra time and a couple of hundred dollars. Its sure worth applying now depending on ur scenario..... 75 % of the chances are that ur good, and out of the 25 % chances of it being bad for u, it depend son the mood of the IO, if the IO had a fight with the spouse the very day things may work out bad for u ..... good luck
Click to expand...

I am going to exhaust all sources, will have a consultation with a reputable attorney from Chicago who helped me with the GC. He should tell me 100% what to expect.
I appreciate all the viewpoints, after all, we are the ones who go through this process, or went...

I will post what i learned from paying 150$ :) for a consultation.
 
WBH said:
In many states, three speeding tickets in 2 years can means suppspension of driver license. Do Cab drivers get special treatment
from DMV? How come the OP could prevent driver license suspension with 7 speeding tickets ?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, cab drivers don't get any special treatment. I have, however, heard that if a cab driver licensed in NYS accummulates enough points to get his/her license suspended, there is a way to get a special license that allows them to only drive for work. Again, this is just hearsay.

Usually, the points only stay on the driving record for 18 months. The OP got 7 speeding tickets in 5 years, which probably means that some of the points disappeared as others were added to his record.
 
WBH said:
Others instancess where victism would have lived had they worn seat belt are much more. We have to prevent more likely cases. The same
reasoning here: there is no guarantee US citizenship is good thing for us more it is more likly it is good thing than it is a bad thing.
Click to expand...

I see your reasoning. However, not using seatbelts is my personal choice. If we really want to protect ourselves while driving, why not start wearing helmets and kevlar suits? :)
 
different people has different experiences with the traffic tickets, some mention on the n400 some dont, some are asked at the IO interview, its still a topic under discussion on the forum and a hot one. but the funny thing is until the uscis mentions t clearly on the n400 instructions or in the m476, we will never know. as it doesnt have any exclusive mention on any of those, unlike dui and dwi.
 
sreeleshk said:
different people has different experiences with the traffic tickets, some mention on the n400 some dont, some are asked at the IO interview, its still a topic under discussion on the forum and a hot one. but the funny thing is until the uscis mentions t clearly on the n400 instructions or in the m476, we will never know. as it doesnt have any exclusive mention on any of those, unlike dui and dwi.
Click to expand...

Oath letter clearly says inclduing traffic violation. New version of N400 has not come out yet. this including clause can be expected to add to new version sooner or later
 
WBH said:
Oath letter clearly says inclduing traffic violation. New version of N400 has not come out yet. this including clause can be expected to add to new version sooner or later
Click to expand...

that makes sense for the new version to specify whether or not to mention traffic tickets, dwi or dui related and disposition papers as proof. I havnt seen any oath letters so far. the n400 instructions or m476 doesnt mention abt traffic tickets, as long as its under $500.00 fine points or dui/dwi related. its not abt providing proof of payment or disposition its whether it should be mentioned, or for how uscis considers it as a citation/arrest or whatever for naturalization purposes
 
The N-400 asks you if you've ever been cited. Yes, a traffic ticket counts as a citation. The N-400 instruction sheet does not say you do not have to disclose it. It does say that you do not need to submit documentation with your application under certain circumstances.

Note that unless a traffic incident was
alcohol or drug related, you do not need to submit
documentation for traffic fines and incidents that did not
involve an actual arrest if the only penalty was a fine of less
than $500 or points on your driver's license.
 
I'm with WBH on this one.
If you want, you could say 'No' on the initial N400 and then own up to the tickets during the interview - and depending on the IO, this may not be an issue. (but muddling through them is your best approach).

(My IO crossed off the Yes and checked 'No' when I told her that all I had were traffic tickets)
 
but not every person considers traffic tickets as a citation, certain IOs dont as traffic tickets is not like a criminal offence. like one of the fellows in the fourm posted i quote unless u drove the car into the community pool and have been on the 5'0clock newls'
 
I'm not saying a citation is for a crime and neither does the USCIS via the N-400. Some jurisdictions, New York for example, specifically state that traffic citations are not crimes, simply "civil traffic infractions".

The N400 asks whether you have ever been cited for any reason so it is immaterial whether it is considered a crime or a civil infraction.
 
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