Too much red tape...my experience

mudpie

New Member
Hi all,

Here is my story. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I was in the U.S. military when I met and married my wife in 1985 while stationed in Germany. She was immediately issued a non-expiring Alien Card.

We returned to Germany as a military member from 1988-1991, again as a federal contractor 2002-2003 and finally a federal employee from 2003-2006.

In 2007/2008 my wife applied for citizenship and was denied based on the 5 year rule. We argued that my federal employment overseas would bridge the U.S. presence requirement as well as our non-resident classification under the Status of Forces Agreement and the fact that we maintained a home in the U.S. while we were out of the country. She has filed joint U.S. tax returns every year since 1985.

The denial stated that she can reapply under the 3 year and married clause. She has recently reapplied, and paid another $675. My question is shouldn't the biometrics and name check already be on file?

She is seriously reconsidering not applying at all. The government could have just as well approved the application based on the later during the same review. In other words, "Ms. Doe, we see you apply under the 5 year rule, but that doesn't apply, we will apply the 3 year rule instead." Thus saving everyone the time and money involved.Too much red tape and closed mindedness. Meanwhile, we are not sure what the deal is with the non-expiring alien card, we have not received any guidance on any changes to the requirements and will not shell out more money for a new one until USCIS can show us the revised law requiring her to do so.:mad:

A side note: Calling USCIS for guidance is useless. They do not answer your questions and hang up.
 
I think you are stuck with all the fees again... but try a consultation with a lawyer... that's perhaps $150 well spent as he/she will be able to tell you exactly how to proceed. I know USCIS is a big and frustrating machine - at times very difficult to navigate....
 
So your wife originally checked box A (5 years) on the N-400 and you expected USCIS to process her under box B (3 years) instead? Unfortunately it doesn't work that way since you must apply under the correct option in order to take advantage of your work overseas with US government to count towards her physical and continuous presence requirement. The same goes for someone who applies under 3 year rule, divorces during the process and then expects USCIS to process them under 5 year instead (provided they are eligible.) Simply put, you can't change the option under which you apply during the process as each application is separate.

If they have her prints on file, they are good for 15 months and she won't have to take them again (if her application gets adjudicated before they expire). You should get the biometrics fee refunded if her prints are still valid.

As for the non expiring alien card, green card issued before 1989 didn't have an expiry date on them. USCIS proposed a rule last year to make it mandatory to replace non-expiry type card. However, till now they haven't decided on a final rule.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/I551Replacement.pdf
 
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So your wife originally checked box A (5 years) on the N-400 and you expected USCIS to process her under box B (3 years) instead? Unfortunately it doesn't work that way since you must apply under the correct option in order to take advantage of your work overseas with US government to count towards her physical and continuous presence requirement. The same goes for someone who applies under 3 year rule, divorces during the process and then expects USCIS to process them under 5 year instead (provided they are eligible.) Simply put, you can't change the option under which you apply during the process as each application is separate.

If they have her prints on file, they are good for 15 months and she won't have to take them again (if her application gets adjudicated before they expire). You should get the biometrics fee refunded if her prints are still valid.

As for the non expiring alien card, green card issued before 1989 didn't have an expiry date on them. USCIS proposed a rule last year to make it mandatory to replace non-expiry type card. However, till now they haven't decided on a final rule.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/pressrelease/I551Replacement.pdf

I believe mudpie wasnt arguing the facts here but rather asking for the gov & its employees to correct or in his case modify a process thats not written in stone, in other words, be a little more considerate & have some compassion for its citizens or citizens to be since him & his wife maintained a residence in the states & payed their due taxes, I dont think thats too much to ask for!! Rules are rules but the process can be modified.:)
 
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Another question

Thanks Bob.

Can we also assume, than since she passed the test within the past 6 months she won't have to do that again?

How many applicant know what the correct option is...that is why you have an interview with USCIS? My bad for assuming that the people who make the rules are there to answer questions and help.

...and to pay $605 to appeal the denial is crazy.:eek: Not to mention the legal fees.
 
Not entirely true, the IO does have some descretion, I applied under the 3yr marriage rule, (I'm not divorced and had my GC 6 years), first thing my IO did was to change my app to 5 yr.. Thing to probably keep in mind though was that I sent just about a copy of every doc I could with my app, so the IO had everything needed ahead of time (my case was very simple and straight forward, Also I went overboard with not only the docs I sent, but with what I took to the interview)... YMMV....



The same goes for someone who applies under 3 year rule, divorces during the process and then expects USCIS to process them under 5 year instead (provided they are eligible.) Simply put, you can't change the option under which you apply during the process as each application is separate.
 
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Not entirely true, the IO does have some descretion, I applied under the 3yr marriage rule, (I'm divorced and had my GC 6 years), first thing my IO did was to change my app to 5 yr.. Thing to probably keep in mind though was that I sent just about a copy of every doc I could with my app, so the IO had everything needed ahead of time (my case was very simple and straight forward, Also I went overboard with not only the docs I sent, but with what I took to the interview)... YMMV....

So you applied somewhere between April-June and your marriage was over by interview in September?
 
Sorry Bobsmyth, I meant to say that I am NOT divorced, my bad, I corrected my original post.

I think my point was that the IO has some descretion, in my situation I guess the IO thought it would just be quicker for the interview to use the 5 yr rule... The IO did it so fast at the start that I never really thought to ask the reasoning behind it, I was just happy to be there and get through it. And correct, I was a June filer.

Regards,

Weston.

So you applied somewhere between April-June and your marriage was over by interview in September?
 
Sorry Bobsmyth, I meant to say that I am NOT divorced, my bad, I corrected my original post.

I think my point was that the IO has some descretion, in my situation I guess the IO thought it would just be quicker for the interview to use the 5 yr rule... The IO did it so fast at the start that I never really thought to ask the reasoning behind it, I was just happy to be there and get through it. And correct, I was a June filer.

Regards,

Weston.

Ahh, makes more sense..good thing your spouse didn't see your original post:D

In your case you were eligible under either option so the IO changing option at interview didn't override a potential denial. In the OP's case, his wife wasn't eligible under the 5 year option in the first place, so changing the option would have implication of overriding a denial.
 
Thanks Bob.

Can we also assume, than since she passed the test within the past 6 months she won't have to do that again?
She'll have to be re-interviewed and take the test again since she had to refile a new application.
How many applicant know what the correct option is...that is why you have an interview with USCIS? My bad for assuming that the people who make the rules are there to answer questions and help.

Welcome to the world of USCIS;). While immigration rules and the USCIS process can be confusing, USCIS does suggest for applicants to read the naturalization guide first which goes over the requirement for each option.

www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf

Are you still stationed abroad? It's my understanding that you can only use the time abroad as a waiver for your wife's continuous and physical presence requirement if you are currently stationed there for at least 1 year.
 
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If they have her prints on file, they are good for 15 months and she won't have to take them again (if her application gets adjudicated before they expire). You should get the biometrics fee refunded if her prints are still valid.

Application fees are totally non-refundable.
 
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