TN Visa - Education Requirements

M

MoOkSiRe

Registered Users (C)
I am a Canadian citizen, born and rasied. I was in highschool when OAC aka grade13 was around. I took it upon myself to take OAC and finish. I took all necessary courses which I knew were going to be career related.

I moved onto college and took computer programming / systems analysis. Due to my grades I was given advanced standing, and didnt have to take first year, and only the general electives had to be taken.

I only took a few full time semsters after that, and tried to finish up by taking night courses. Unfortunately I did not finish my college diploma, though I am only a few credits shy of this. I have notified a academic conselor and am awaiting their findings.

Though I have not complete finished my diploma, I have accomplished over 10yrs career related experience.


as per AETS

LINK: - http://www.aetsinternational.com/aets2.htm

Professional Work Experience Evaluations also evaluate the applicants' education (if applicable), as well as their work experience, using the USCIS "three-for-one" rule. This rule states that three years of work experience can be substituted for one year of academic study in order to equate the work experience to a U.S. Bachelor's degree. (This equivalency is used for USCIS and DOL purposes only; the applicant cannot use the reports for admission into university programs based on work experience.) AETS' Work Experience Evaluations are completed by PhD university professors with the "authority to grant college-level credit for training and/or work experience
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From my understanding my 10 years experience should account for something, or am I under the wrong assumption?

I currently have a job offer from the US, and would like to obtain my TN visa.

Please help and advise me on my situation.

Thanks

EDIT:
Position = computer systems analyst

I have post secondary certificates. Though I have read on many different websites, that the above position has different requirements. What is a certificate definied as?
 
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MoOkSiRe said:
From my understanding my 10 years experience should account for something, or am I under the wrong assumption?
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For an H1, you can trade experience for education. For a TN, either you have a degree/diploma, or you don't. If the category you are seeking admission under requires a degree, you are out of luck.
 
TheRealCanadian said:
For an H1, you can trade experience for education. For a TN, either you have a degree/diploma, or you don't. If the category you are seeking admission under requires a degree, you are out of luck.
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The visa application would be for a computer systems analyst.

thanks
 
TRC is correct. The TN category will either specify degree, or will allow for diploma plus (usu) 3 yrs experience. There are a couple of categories that allow for NO educational requirement (management consultant and Scientific Technician), but these are obviously highly scrutinized at the border, since they are a 'last resort' category sought by non-degreed workers.

The 3 for 1 rule does apply for H1 jobs, but H1's are in an April 1st lottery right now, and would only start in October.

For TN, CSA must have bach, or diploma plus 3 years.
 
nelsona said:
TRC is correct. The TN category will either specify degree, or will allow for diploma plus (usu) 3 yrs experience. There are a couple of categories that allow for NO educational requirement (management consultant and Scientific Technician), but these are obviously highly scrutinized at the border, since they are a 'last resort' category sought by non-degreed workers.

The 3 for 1 rule does apply for H1 jobs, but H1's are in an April 1st lottery right now, and would only start in October.

For TN, CSA must have bach, or diploma plus 3 years.
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even seeking lawyer representation, are they still highly scrutinized at the border?

thank you
 
What do you want me to say? MC and SciTech are highly scrutinized. Period.

Up until an hour ago, you were going for a CSA job. Now you've talking getting a lawyer prepping for a different job. You'd be crazy not to get a lawyer involved. At this point, let him give you the answers.

and post-secondary certificates are NOT what is needed. It's a 2-year diploma.
 
nelsona said:
What do you want me to say? MC and SciTech are highly scrutinized. Period.

Up until an hour ago, you were going for a CSA job. Now you've talking getting a lawyer prepping for a different job. You'd be crazy not to get a lawyer involved. At this point, let him give you the answers.

and post-secondary certificates are NOT what is needed. It's a 2-year diploma.
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As per my speaking with the hiring director, it is an open / new position with managment consulting abilities.

The current CSA is leaving, and the the company is expanding, which allows for new hires to be a CSA or a MG.

I assumed the CSA route was my best bet, but it seems like the MC is the prefered choice. My job functions are open and can be stated to be a CSA or a MC. I have given them noticed of the need to apply for a visa, that way everything is on the table.

I do have a lawyer and have scheduled an appointment.

I am seeking advise here first so I am well prepared for both my lawyer, possible future employeer and the TN process.

Thanks
 
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The hiccup with MC position is that it must be supernumerary, ie, it can't really be a an open slot in the company.

And you must consult, not do work.

So, it is not a slam dunk to say a position can be stated as either/or.
 
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nelsona said:
The hiccup with MC position is that it must be supernumerary, ie, it can't really be a an open slot in the company.

And you must consult, not do work.

So, it is not a slam dunk to say a position can be stated as either/or.
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I am aware that I must consult and not do work. Which leads me more to the interview process. They are at a point where they are looking for a MC as looking to hire multiple CSAs. In turn the MC would over see CSA duties and make necessary recommendations. They are at a point where growth is exceeding their current staff. They do have multiple constults they deal with on a basis, and have informed me that they would need 'consults' more frequently due to the quickly expanding company.

To make things clear, it is not an open slot in the company. The company has grown in such a way, where proactive decisions must be made. Like replacing the soon to be open CSA position, and hiring multiple CSAs. I would assume a MC would fit quite nicely in there some way.

Therefore it would be a new position, would that pose an issue?

Thanks
 
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nelsona said:
The fact that it is a new position is not a problem.
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thanks

that being said, the only thing in my favor is my 10yrs experience which is directly field related.

does that experience also include my education? if so my years experience would increase.
 
What's with trying to link experience and no diploma. It doesn't work that way. If your education mattered, you wouldn't be trying to get MC, you'd have CSA.

And you only need 5 years experience


.. which you have to document, by the way, with letters
 
nelsona said:
What's with trying to link experience and no diploma. It doesn't work that way. If your education mattered, you wouldn't be trying to get MC, you'd have CSA.

And you only need 5 years experience


.. which you have to document, by the way, with letters
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I will have my experience documented with letters. I have read this within the forums, but they did not state what the letters should outline. What should be contained in the letters?

Thanks
 
nelsona - you keep saying management consultant - I get that.

mooksire - keep saying MG. Are you guys talking about the same thing?

Based on everything you have said, unless you are a scientific technician, it might be difficult. You should check into that and see if you fit from a computer angle. I used that one for ten years without a diploma, but I did have technical specific courses.

Unless of course the lawyer can spin the MC for you. Still not sure what an MG is except a British Sports car.
 
simsd said:
nelsona - you keep saying management consultant - I get that.

mooksire - keep saying MG. Are you guys talking about the same thing?

Based on everything you have said, unless you are a scientific technician, it might be difficult. You should check into that and see if you fit from a computer angle. I used that one for ten years without a diploma, but I did have technical specific courses.

Unless of course the lawyer can spin the MC for you. Still not sure what an MG is except a British Sports car.
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Sorry I wasnt familiar with the shortform. I thought the shortform was MG, though I was speaking about MC. I will edit my responses to show the correct shortform.

Thanks for catching that.
 
It's okay,

I'm not the language police. I just wasn't sure if you guys were talking about the same thing.

BTW...there is no "official short form". But this forum is loaded with so many acronyms that half the time I can't figure out what people are talking about.:D
 
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Simple Answer....Not what you want to hear...

I was hired as a "consultant" in Computer Systems Analyst (CSA) in 2003...This was with 5 yrs experience in C++, Java, SAS, COBOL, JCL...all the heavy duty stuff. All these had been acquired in actual work experience plus formal corporate training with supporting certificates.

The headhunter assured me that with all that experience, it was gonna be a breeze and "they do it all the time". MY NAIVE SELF, quit my job, and packed (with all the required stuff) and one thing missing...A DEGREE/CERTIFICATE.

Showed up @ pearson airport on a flight to Redmond, Washington. Got pulled aside, led into an evaluation office. Everthing was reviwed, and finally the officer said..."very impressive resume, so may I see your degree from University of Toronto?"...."well, Sir, I am 5 credits short of my degree, but I have contacted University of Washington, and they will allow me to enroll and get transfer credits to UoT where I will graduate". The officer looked at me and said..."Did you review the requirements for CSA?"....I responded, "Yes, Sir I did". He pulls out the list and goes..."Son, I am sorry I will have to decline your application, since you are missing this item here....a Degree/Certificate".

It almost felt like I had been fired....real sucky!...but, got a hold of myself, called the headhunter told him what happened, nursed my feelings for a week, then enrolled in school that January, did all the 5 remaining classes and got my degree. With that piece of paper that usually is hung on a frame on the wall, I went back 2 years later, run into the SAME officer, and he said..."I remember you, did I not issue you a TN?"

Long story short, You need to have all your ducks in a row, and dont let a recruiters smooth talking give you dreams about getting a TN (even with a lawyer beside you) if you dont have all objectively verifiable requirements. Lawyers are for subjective evaluation, where you can challenge based on "unfair" treatment.

I hope my experience will help your quest for a TN. Good Luck.
 
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